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Fewer turkeys every year

DeerOps said:
What crops are currently being planted on the farm that has lost its flock? Has there been a loss of habitat?
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No loss of habitat, but few years back the guy who farms the biggest parts of areas I hunt started using chicken poop from Alabama chicken farms as fertilizer. Started noticing lower numbers soon after
 
I haven't seen a male bird during season in 2 years. I see one out of season from time to time. I haven't been chasing them too hard since I'm not seeing or hearing too many.
 
poorhunter said:
My listening spots encompass thousands of acres. There's ten miles of backroads from my house that I drive several times a week where I can observe fields (zero row crop) that turkeys frequent…well used to frequent. The farms I hunt are spread out, but


Used to see those kids of flocks on the farms I hunt in Hickman county. Not any more though.
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It got thin here for a few years, but they've come back .I've noticed it has coincided with a resurgence in coon hunting and more people predator hunting.
 
Start trapping! Every nest lost to coons, possums, fox coyote contains more than one future gobbler. Hunting day and night doesn't have much affect on mesopredatores. A trap works day and night and coyote is year round!
 
I think there are very few poults that survive to replenish the flocks each year!You take the 30,000 or what not each year that hunters kill and then all the turkeys lost to predators your flock will continue to get less and less each year!Poult survival is critical to maintain a flock each year!Jack Murray said the hens need to average 2.8 poults per hen just to maintain the population at the same level each year!After spring hay is cut I ride my ATV around all the back roads and I may see 7 or 8 hens with not a single poult!
 
GreeneGriz said:
It got thin here for a few years, but they've come back .I've noticed it has coincided with a resurgence in coon hunting and more people predator hunting.
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Hence the reason for more opportunities! If twra creates a new hunting season at night I'm sure tons of people will participate. Especially if coyotes can be hunted year round at night.
 
scn said:
The season is too long and the bag limit is too high. Unfortunately, our agency and Commission are more concerned with license $$$ than they are the resource. It is circling the bowl. We haven't had a turkey biologist that truly cared about the birds since Jack Murrey retired. Glad I am at the end of my hunting career.

In a very few years, particularly with what is getting ready to happen, I won't be surprised to see them at a quail level.
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Quail??? Whats a quail?
 
I don't think hunting is the primary reason for the decline…there is a lot of acreage that has pretty much zero hunting…having said that during these lean years the limit should be 1 longbeard imo…that would allow the remaining stocks to be huntable for a while longer in hopes of a rebound…season length is probably about 2 weeks too long also…but if limit was 1 that shouldn't matter too much anyway…predation has been around since the beginning, hay cutting has been around for decades, spraying and no till agriculture are fairly new on the scene…of course everyone has opinions but I think that disease or toxins are the culprits…
 
Andy S. said:
asionally throughout the year. He's a diehard turkey hunter but refuses to shoot the 1-2 longbeards that shifts on/off his land last few years. P
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Wrangler95 said:
I think there are very few poults that survive to replenish the flocks each year!You take the 30,000 or what not each year that hunters kill and then all the turkeys lost to predators your flock will continue to get less and less each year!Poult survival is critical to maintain a flock each year!Jack Murray said the hens need to average 2.8 poults per hen just to maintain the population at the same level each year!After spring hay is cut I ride my ATV around all the back roads and I may see 7 or 8 hens with not a single poult!
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THIS! I just found the TWRA report from 2020, its crazy, I wonder why it has decreased so much:

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2011 is when I saw a big drop on turkey numbers on the farms I hunt in Smith Co. and just driving around there also. I felt like the 2010 flood destroyed lots of nest. It seems to me that the numbers are just now looking good again.

And I'll admit, in the past, I would put out corn after deer season up until the first of March. I stopped doing that after I learned about the toxic mold that would kill the birds. I could have played a part in it.
 
gobbler32 said:
Im not whining just concerned how it can go from turkeys galore to hardly even seeing any or hearing some. Im sorry but I don't think hunting them hard is the reason , more like some disease/parasite or something. All this fanning /decoying use is not the problem either imo. A true turkey hunter needs neither but you do need turkeys.
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Wasn't directing it at you or really anyone whining cause I've done some myself. Nobody knows the exact seasons but let's go thru the potential problems and solutions.

1. Predators
Can't make force people to hunt or trap and in this busy world not many have time. Our grandfather's could and did for numerous reasons. What if it's owls, hawks or eagles? Good to know but nothing can be done. If nests are being destroyed I don't see any possible fix

2. Habitat
Again, can't tell someone how to use their land. Also, people need to realize it's not just private farms that have seen a decrease. Large chunks of mountainous national forest has as well. In fact, some of the areas I first started hunting I would put up against any private farm in the state. And again, not a dang thing anyone can do with the court system and tree huggers. In fact, I use to hunt a lot of wilderness areas. Those lands can never be touched.

Disease
Well we've seen how the states have handled cwd. Shoot em all! If it's from chicken manure you're right back in the hands of the land owners. If it is chicken crap it still doesn't explain the population decline in mountainous territory.

Weather
Obviously nothing we can do

Season /bag limits

This is the one thing we can control to a degree. Move the season and reduce the number of tags. Even do away with tactics that allow birds to be much easily harvested. No Jake's. All that COULD have an impact on the number of gobblers carried over from spring to spring. Maybe it would allow more hens to be bred and the population would grow. Maybe none of it would matter.

I did personally witness one thing. For the guys that don't know Johnson County well, it's mostly mountainous land with farms /fields in the valleys. Back in the 90s I would take a ride in mid March on a rainy day and literally see 3-400 birds. It was ridiculous. Hardly anybody turkey hunted and a knock on a door would get you permission. Deer hunting was out of the question tho. Turkey hunting started to explode and everything either got leased up or family hunt it. I still took my usual rides but it didn't take long after all that started for the population to take a huge hit. Coincidence? Possibly. I believe a big reason there was so many birds in the mountains at that time was cause there were so many birds in the valleys that it was way over capacity. As those birds disappeared, the mountain birds moved in and the populations decreased. I can't remember the exact year but it was around 2017 I went like 17 days without hearing a bird. In Virginia last year, I heard 1 bird on public. It was opening day and he came in but had no beard so wasn't legal. I heard more birds the first morning in Wyoming than I did in over 30 days combined in VA and Tenn.

Again, I'm not going to pretend I know what it is. I'm in the boat that's it not one particular thing. What I want to hear is what guys think it is AND a solution for said problem. I gave mine
 
megalomaniac said:
There are solutions. Cutting the limit and shortening the season will only delay the inevitable. At the same time taking away opportunities from those areas where population is thriving.

A reasonable solution would be to issue 1 turkey tag per 5 or 10 predator pelts turned in. Don't want to spend the time trapping or hunt public or are a travelling nonresident charge $100 extra per turkey tag/ permit, with a max of (1, 2, 3... whatever). Use these funds to pay trappers to remove predators off public. Issue transferable landowner tags to those who improve habitat, which can be sold or donated.
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I caught 27 coons this year. How many tags I get?
 
gobbler32 said:
I mainly hunt Hickman County but do stray into Dickson co some too. I was fortunate for many years to have some excellent ground to hunt that was full of birds. I can attest the last 3-5 yrs in Hickman County have shown a complete flip flop of hearing and seeing birds. I do have 2 places that have a few turkeys but not even close to what it once was and I am pretty much the only one hunting turkey at both places. One farm I've hunted for over 20yr used to be loaded and could hear 10 to 15 birds in a morning ,now you're lucky to hear one. Dickson co is absolutely loaded with turkeys though.
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I can echo this 100 percent. It's absolutely incredible how we have gone from one extreme to the next.
 
catman529 said:
From personal observations, Hickman co is spotty, as is Williamson co where I live. Both counties have a ton of birds, but they're not on every ridge or creek bottom in the county, they're in pockets. Whether a decline from years past is normal or not, I don't know.

The local flock in my backyard has just about disappeared in the past 5 years, but I can drive right down the road and see plenty of birds that have been doing just fine. Multiple theories as to why, but no solid explanation.

Statewide regulations can only do so much to help a local flocks decline when we are already limited to bearded birds only and most of the breeding happens before season opens. A local problem is not a statewide problem. Especially when we really have no idea what caused the decline(s).

You could say it's predators, chicken houses, hay cutting, heavy hunting pressure, etc etc. But I guarantee someone can always name another location that has one or more of those factors, where turkeys are still hatching out and raising healthy poult numbers every year and are doing just fine. I know I can.

We don't have a straight answer to local declines yet. If we did, they wouldn't be conducting studies all over the eastern US on wild turkeys. Hopefully we will find some answers in the future. I think TFT has the right mindset and I fully support their efforts.
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Im telling you the overall population in Hickman has declined, the reason why is up in the air. Yeah some farms & areas have a decent amount of birds but I can personally attest that properties that I know and have witnessed for the last 35yrs that have always had good numbers have 0 birds or just a handful. Im pretty sure there is baiting on some adjoining properties but I cannot prove that without trespassing and im not doing that.
 
One of the things i cant believe that hasnt been mentioned is the fall turkey hunts that allowed the harvest of hens. Around my area, Washington County was one of the last to start the fall turkey hunts. There was usually 150-180 birds that wintered on the farm including several gray phase hens. Once the fall turkey hunts started, we started noticing less and less of the color phased hens around and less turkeys overall. Of course weve noticed a rise in hunting pressure in the area that wasnt there 10 years or more ago. Were the hens being shot in the fall or was there something else that was eliminating them? I dont know but from observation they went hand in hand. Now its bearded turkeys only but is it too late to make a difference. Say 120 hens raising a poult or 2 from flock we had. Now were down to lets say 30-40(thats on the high side) raising the same amount.
As far as predators go, i think the damage has gotten worse as their numbers have went up. I grew up a coon hunter and had all kinds of buddies that did the same. I stopped years ago because it was getting too hard to find places to go. Look at all the fussing you see on here about someone getting pics of dogs or hunters on their trail cam. Not saying im for the trespassing hunters but you cant cut off a hound on foot. Ive tried, doesnt work. Most of the people i used to hunt with have given it up as well. Trapping is becoming a thing of the past since fur prices are so low. No justification for the time spent to work up furs. Raccoon population around here has exploded. I walked around my hay and pasture field one night and saw 15 coons and several possums. Add into that coyotes, foxes, bobcats, skunks, owls, hawks and feral cats that ive got running around and i dont know how any turkey poult could survive. Its up to us to try to get the numbers back up however we are able to. Weve cut ourselves back to number of birds harvested off the farm. We started trapping to remove predators off the farm. Gonna hit it alot harder next fall. Hay has to be cut when its ready and we usually lose some nests to that but have set aside areas we dont mow to make it more appealing to nest in besides just the hay field. None of it is going to be a quick fix but there is alot of little things i can do on my end to try to help out.
 
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