Kevin
Well-Known Member
He's standing beside a 1.5 year old. Seems like a for sure target cull buck.
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How old is he.
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BSK
Well-Known Member
Would need to see all of his front legs. Chest depth to leg length ratio is an excellent measure of buck age in summer.
Kevin
Well-Known Member
Kevin
Well-Known Member
BSK
Well-Known Member
3 1/2
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
3 1/2 or older
3 or 4 but not what I'd consider a cull. Pretty normal rack for that age group around here.
BSK
Well-Known Member
backyardtndeer
Well-Known Member
Looks like a 3 1/2 year old to me.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
Agree...3½
BSK
Well-Known Member
Surprisingly, I've seen it make a difference. But that requires a large property and a lot of hunters willing to actually take out specific bucks. The result is fewer low-scoring mature bucks, which raises the average score of mature bucks.
But what really makes the most difference is hunters willing to pass up the best 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year-old bucks. Basically, reverse high-grading. THAT can make a profound difference over time. I wouldn't have believed how much of a difference it could make until I saw it with my own eyes.
Agreed on both points. I can see how it could possibly work on a property where it's measured in sections rather than acres, essentially large enough to encompass numerous bucks' entire ranges.
But for most of us mortals who measure our land in acreage and are largely at the mercy of surrounding properties, the best thing we can do to increase rack size is not pull the trigger. Create an environment that entice deer to spend more time on our property away from neighbors, and let them age.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
So the benifit of "culling" is more about mathematically having less mouths to feed...but genetically speaking letting the best up and comers walk provides more opportunities in the future....or as you describe it...reverse high grading...makes sense....we're not going to cull out less desirable genetics in a wild herd...but we can reduce pressure on tha habitat and allow bucks to reach thier full potential.
I've never seen
I could not agree more for 99.9% of hunters who hunt smalller properties with no control over the surrounding areas. I've never seen a cull in my hunting career on the fair chase non high fence properties I frequent. For me, it is pretty simple. It is either a mature buck I want to shoot, which is a rare event these days, or a buck I do not want to shoot, which happens most of the time. Kids, guests and especially new hunters have the greenlight to shoot away as they do not remove many bucks at all in the big picture.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Let Nature take her course. Produce more older bucks and the bell curve distribution will take care of itself. There may not be a lot of high-scoring bucks, but there will be a few high-scoring bucks for the area.
We high-grade the snot out of my property. Most family members are thrilled with any above average 2 1/2 year-old buck. Yet despite years of this kind of high-grading, will still have 2 or 3 bucks that raise my eyebrows each year. I go after those.
BSK
Well-Known Member
I hate the term "cull" because it is linked to the idea you can genetically improve the local buck population by removing the underperformers. This does NOT work. First, most of the genetics for antler characteristics are probably carried on the female side of the line, and second, the flow of genetics is so rapid across such a wide geographic area that you could never concentrate "good" genetics into a small area.
The idea of "management" bucks is as you describe - mathematics. Remove the underperformers and the average score of mature bucks goes up. But also, as you mentioned, allowing the best young bucks to achieve maturity is by far the best strategy. THAT makes a HUGE difference.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
A "trophy" is in the eye of the beholder.
I have to look at any & every deer I kill (or "harvest" if you prefer) a "trophy".
Each deer is also "food", and each day afield is also an "adventure",
never mind no deer is killed on most days spent "hunting".
It has become more about the journey to me than the score of any buck.
Each of us is in a different place, in oh so many ways.
In my youth, it was actually rare to see ANY buck older than a yearling, as most bucks were killed at 1 1/2, with very few living to 2 1/2. Back then, ANY buck was a trophy to me. Doe were off limits then, not only sacrilegious to kill one, but illegal. All gun hunting was "buck-only".
My first "trophy" buck was a yearling spike, when I was 12 yrs old.
I still remember many details of that day, although I've forgotten, lost count of most the subsequent larger antlered bucks.
Today, I personally define a trophy deer primarily by age, first.
Some of my best trophies have been very old doe that challenging my hunting skills more than any buck.
Antler "score" now takes the back seat, being just another way of more fully describing a buck's antlers.
A picture with the hunter holding those antlers is usually a better way.
As to those old, below-averaged antlered, mature bucks, which seem to be the ones I end up targeting most, they are much greater trophies (to me) than the young bucks out-scoring them.
Also, fully mature bucks tend to be the most unique antlers, often growing some abnormal tines/stickers on their otherwise typically framed antlers.
Many bucks with only 7 to 9 "mainframe" tines as 3 1/2 or 4 1/2-yr-olds will often become bucks touted to be something like a "14-pointer" when fully mature. They may still be 7 to 9 main tines, but have several "new" tines/points which are an inch or longer, or maybe a ring will hang on them.
To each his own, and most views will change over time.
I have to look at any & every deer I kill (or "harvest" if you prefer) a "trophy".
Each deer is also "food", and each day afield is also an "adventure",
never mind no deer is killed on most days spent "hunting".
It has become more about the journey to me than the score of any buck.
Each of us is in a different place, in oh so many ways.
In my youth, it was actually rare to see ANY buck older than a yearling, as most bucks were killed at 1 1/2, with very few living to 2 1/2. Back then, ANY buck was a trophy to me. Doe were off limits then, not only sacrilegious to kill one, but illegal. All gun hunting was "buck-only".
My first "trophy" buck was a yearling spike, when I was 12 yrs old.
I still remember many details of that day, although I've forgotten, lost count of most the subsequent larger antlered bucks.
Today, I personally define a trophy deer primarily by age, first.
Some of my best trophies have been very old doe that challenging my hunting skills more than any buck.
Antler "score" now takes the back seat, being just another way of more fully describing a buck's antlers.
A picture with the hunter holding those antlers is usually a better way.
As to those old, below-averaged antlered, mature bucks, which seem to be the ones I end up targeting most, they are much greater trophies (to me) than the young bucks out-scoring them.
Also, fully mature bucks tend to be the most unique antlers, often growing some abnormal tines/stickers on their otherwise typically framed antlers.
Many bucks with only 7 to 9 "mainframe" tines as 3 1/2 or 4 1/2-yr-olds will often become bucks touted to be something like a "14-pointer" when fully mature. They may still be 7 to 9 main tines, but have several "new" tines/points which are an inch or longer, or maybe a ring will hang on them.
To each his own, and most views will change over time.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Been saying that for decades
The #1 reason we in TN don't have more larger-antlered older bucks is because of hunters' high-grading the best antlered young bucks.
About the only way to achieve less antler high-grading is via simply less hunting.
There is not better strategy to produce top-end-antlered mature bucks than to give a pass to the top-end-antlered young bucks (commonly only 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 yrs old). But the reality may always be that hunters tend to select killing above average antlered young bucks at a higher rate than below average antlered young bucks.
This means most bucks surviving to maturity will be below average antlered, most anywhere deer hunting is happening. Heck, even in areas off limits to legal hunting, those above average antlered young bucks commonly get illegally poached, while the same poachers wouldn't take those risks with a below average antlered young buck.
I'm happy giving a pass to all young bucks; happy to target most any old buck
But, yes, I do prefer those older bucks with the most unique & largest antlers.
Kevin
Well-Known Member
That is more along the lines of what this is. I have some much better targets on the farm, but would be over the moon for the kids or someone I bring to shoot this one.
