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2 predictions for 2019 turkey season

megalomaniac

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#1- statewide kill of 25,000 birds or less... yes, even lower than this year.... The writing is on the wall, it's going to happen, we will get to enjoy the fruits of the past 2 years terrible hatches.

#2- the average idjit will blame the lower harvest on the new regulation changes instituted from the terrible harvest for 2018. It does not matter WHAT the regulation changes instituted this year will do... our fate is sealed for next year. 2 consecutive terrible hatches combined with an overall declining population and nothing else can be expected. Everybody just hope we have a great hatch this year, there is still hope for 2020, even under our current season structure. 2 bird limit, 10 bird limit... the writing is on the wall for 2019 :(
 
Sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom for folks to realize there is a problem and changes need to be made.. Here is to hoping those blind eyes open up in the near future..
 
But but..."I've seen more birds this year than ever". That's a quote from several. I'm truly glad they've got birds and I'd hate for their spots to go void, but there is an overall problem of declining population for several reasons and something needs to be done to stop the bleeding.
 
I saved a Facebook screen shot, time will tell if someone wins a new house or not[emoji14]


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megalomaniac":13miiilu said:
#1- statewide kill of 25,000 birds or less... yes, even lower than this year.... The writing is on the wall, it's going to happen, we will get to enjoy the fruits of the past 2 years terrible hatches.

#2- the average idjit will blame the lower harvest on the new regulation changes instituted from the terrible harvest for 2018. It does not matter WHAT the regulation changes instituted this year will do... our fate is sealed for next year. 2 consecutive terrible hatches combined with an overall declining population and nothing else can be expected. Everybody just hope we have a great hatch this year, there is still hope for 2020, even under our current season structure. 2 bird limit, 10 bird limit... the writing is on the wall for 2019 :(

I agree....the results of 2 poor hatches in a row along with declining population were evident in KY this year. Lots of guy crying the blues up here. I've been telling them for at least 3yrs this was coming. This was the first year in the last 3 that I saw any jakes. Hoping next year will be better. 4 and 5 yr old gobblers will show you how good of a hunter you really are...
 
I'm tired of hearing all of the so-called "experts" blaming the lower statewide harvest on the weather. Not only did I hear less gobbling but I saw less turkeys this spring than I have in my 40 years of turkey hunting. And I hunted 2 federal refuges, LBL, Fort Campbell and several private farms in West Tennessee.
 
I think southern Lawrence and Giles have had about 10 years of poor hatches. '17 spring and '16 spring I had two clutches hatch for sure on a small property I own in southern Giles county, but I had no photos or sightings of them either year from July on. They either moved off, which I wouldn't doubt, or something ate them all, which I wouldn't doubt either.

Last summer I would see 4 hens with 17 poults almost daily in the same area in southern Giles, and watched them until around September until they finally moved off and changed patterns or ranges. (I seriously doubt at this stage of life every single one of them got ate by something.)

I saw one hen with one poult last summer in southern Lawrence county and only one time.

My job consist of me driving in between 70-200 miles daily, in the countryside of Giles, Lawrence, and Wayne.

Besides what I just stated, I have not seen a poult in any county since 2009. Now I know that what I see isn't all that's there, and it doesn't mean everything, but it is some good info.

By the way, I also drive a lot in North Alabama, Limestone and Lauderdale County which borders Giles and Lawrence. No turkeys or poults there either.


Whatever happened in this area, began in 2007-2009. 2010 was the last year that I remember there being good numbers of birds, and I believe that from '11 to '16were at an all time low.

I am positive that there is an over all decline, but, I have oobserved more turkeys and more gobbling on my areas the last two springs than I have since '10.

What I see people not talk about much, was the huge flood we had in 2010. The flood that got Nashville really bad. It flooded places besides Nashville, and I'm wondering how much that had to do with it as well. It was probably one spring/summer where middle and West Tennessee had the worst hatch and poult recruitment since the beginning, and there haven't been enough turkeys to make more turkeys.

The tools that hunters have to kill, the early opener, the nest predation, the adult predation, the floods that we have, the loss of habitat converted to housing or even big ag fields, the accumulation of loss of hens on nest by predators, hay mowers, and accumulation loss of hens by legally shooting them with bows in deer season and fall season and bearded hens,....
It all adds up together.

Those reasons right there are why we don't have as many turkeys as we used to.

It all adds up. The easiest fixes from TWRA standpoint would be to open the season later, illegalize hens, and drop the limit some.

Everything else is pretty much out of their control. Although I would applaud them if they would put out sometime of something for the coins, possums, armadillos, and coyotes to be reduced.

Up to us, land managers and conservationist, if you are able, create suitable nesting and brood rearing habitat. I say it on this forum every dang spring. If all you can do is plant a winter wheat or rye field, then so be it. But if you can do more do so. Cater your land to quail, turkeys, and rabbits rather than deer. Deer can live anywhere and have few predators or other issues. Turkeys and quail don't. If you can grow turkeys and quail, your deer will thrive too.






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woodsman04":1xyuh4ld said:
I think southern Lawrence and Giles have had about 10 years of poor hatches. '17 spring and '16 spring I had two clutches hatch for sure on a small property I own in southern Giles county, but I had no photos or sightings of them either year from July on. They either moved off, which I wouldn't doubt, or something ate them all, which I wouldn't doubt either.

Last summer I would see 4 hens with 17 poults almost daily in the same area in southern Giles, and watched them until around September until they finally moved off and changed patterns or ranges. (I seriously doubt at this stage of life every single one of them got ate by something.)

I saw one hen with one poult last summer in southern Lawrence county and only one time.

My job consist of me driving in between 70-200 miles daily, in the countryside of Giles, Lawrence, and Wayne.

Besides what I just stated, I have not seen a poult in any county since 2009. Now I know that what I see isn't all that's there, and it doesn't mean everything, but it is some good info.

By the way, I also drive a lot in North Alabama, Limestone and Lauderdale County which borders Giles and Lawrence. No turkeys or poults there either.


Whatever happened in this area, began in 2007-2009. 2010 was the last year that I remember there being good numbers of birds, and I believe that from '11 to '16were at an all time low.

I am positive that there is an over all decline, but, I have oobserved more turkeys and more gobbling on my areas the last two springs than I have since '10.

What I see people not talk about much, was the huge flood we had in 2010. The flood that got Nashville really bad. It flooded places besides Nashville, and I'm wondering how much that had to do with it as well. It was probably one spring/summer where middle and West Tennessee had the worst hatch and poult recruitment since the beginning, and there haven't been enough turkeys to make more turkeys.

The tools that hunters have to kill, the early opener, the nest predation, the adult predation, the floods that we have, the loss of habitat converted to housing or even big ag fields, the accumulation of loss of hens on nest by predators, hay mowers, and accumulation loss of hens by legally shooting them with bows in deer season and fall season and bearded hens,....
It all adds up together.

Those reasons right there are why we don't have as many turkeys as we used to.

It all adds up. The easiest fixes from TWRA standpoint would be to open the season later, illegalize hens, and drop the limit some.

Everything else is pretty much out of their control. Although I would applaud them if they would put out sometime of something for the coins, possums, armadillos, and coyotes to be reduced.

Up to us, land managers and conservationist, if you are able, create suitable nesting and brood rearing habitat. I say it on this forum every dang spring. If all you can do is plant a winter wheat or rye field, then so be it. But if you can do more do so. Cater your land to quail, turkeys, and rabbits rather than deer. Deer can live anywhere and have few predators or other issues. Turkeys and quail don't. If you can grow turkeys and quail, your deer will thrive too.






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I have seen an uptick in southern Lawrence as well in the last 3 years
 
th88":11g3t0wp said:
Sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom for folks to realize there is a problem and changes need to be made.. Here is to hoping those blind eyes open up in the near future..
When will those blind eyes open in MS?
 
jbird, you must hunt south MS with me :)

MS is blind because we have NO semblance of any population data at all. It is impossible to prove the population has crashed in south MS. I know the good ole boys are firmly against a tagging system, and I don't think it will stem the poaching, but it does provide an indirect population correlation that can be trended.
 
megalomaniac":u6fov2df said:
jbird, you must hunt south MS with me :)

MS is blind because we have NO semblance of any population data at all. It is impossible to prove the population has crashed in south MS. I know the good ole boys are firmly against a tagging system, and I don't think it will stem the poaching, but it does provide an indirect population correlation that can be trended.
How'd you guess? lol..Bout 20-25 miles S of me as the crow flies and you'll hit the gulf. I live where there were plenty of turkeys to hunt about 8 yrs ago but it has been awful since. Habitat is not much different, predator population is about the same, yet turkeys (hens included) are disappearing into thin air. I've been told it's a pretty brutal disease that hit them. As far as a solution is concerned though, mum's the word. Hopefully the good Lord will straighten out things because those who possess the power of the pen seem to have other concerns.
 
Jbird22":1g6owhkw said:
megalomaniac":1g6owhkw said:
jbird, you must hunt south MS with me :)

MS is blind because we have NO semblance of any population data at all. It is impossible to prove the population has crashed in south MS. I know the good ole boys are firmly against a tagging system, and I don't think it will stem the poaching, but it does provide an indirect population correlation that can be trended.
How'd you guess? lol..Bout 20-25 miles S of me as the crow flies and you'll hit the gulf. I live where there were plenty of turkeys to hunt about 8 yrs ago but it has been awful since. Habitat is not much different, predator population is about the same, yet turkeys (hens included) are disappearing into thin air. I've been told it's a pretty brutal disease that hit them. As far as a solution is concerned though, mum's the word. Hopefully the good Lord will straighten out things because those who possess the power of the pen seem to have other concerns.

If it was disease we'd find evidence of dead turkeys. It's not disease. It's no poult production, over harvest with no replenishment
 
Setterman":q747pbof said:
Jbird22":q747pbof said:
megalomaniac":q747pbof said:
jbird, you must hunt south MS with me :)

MS is blind because we have NO semblance of any population data at all. It is impossible to prove the population has crashed in south MS. I know the good ole boys are firmly against a tagging system, and I don't think it will stem the poaching, but it does provide an indirect population correlation that can be trended.
How'd you guess? lol..Bout 20-25 miles S of me as the crow flies and you'll hit the gulf. I live where there were plenty of turkeys to hunt about 8 yrs ago but it has been awful since. Habitat is not much different, predator population is about the same, yet turkeys (hens included) are disappearing into thin air. I've been told it's a pretty brutal disease that hit them. As far as a solution is concerned though, mum's the word. Hopefully the good Lord will straighten out things because those who possess the power of the pen seem to have other concerns.

If it was disease we'd find evidence of dead turkeys. It's not disease. It's no poult production, over harvest with no replenishment
Over-harvest may be the case in TN but not here in South MS. The only over-harvest that has occurred here has been the past few 3-4 years when turkey season on public land should've been closed due to not having a hunt-able population. Also, there's no fall season in our part of the state so hens are off limits as well, yet they're practically as scarce as gobblers. I do believe disease is what hit our birds so hard here. I just wish our state would man up and make a few "tough" decisions until our population noticeably changed for the better. The only thing I'm going say about our lack of a tagging system is that it's looooonnng overdue.

As for TN, I don't see a 4 bird limit being sustainable over a very long period of time, especially with the fall season as well. The start time and length of season don't seem out of line though. If I were a TN resident, I think I'd want to see the spring gobbler limit reduced to 3 and fall seasons closed until further notice as a start. I've always been a fan of how OK has structured their season with an overall state limit that also included individual county limits. Again, the only way this is enforceable is through a LEGIT tagging system backed by real repercussions for noncompliance. As far as how to truly enforce a turkey tagging system, MO wrote the book on that all states should emulate.
 
The 4 bird limit was one of the single dumbest things I've ever witnessed. I was adamant when it was implemented and stand by my outrage at twra and their decision
 
Jbird, it.just doesn't make sense, but to me it seemed to happen the season after Katrina. You would think that would have made more nesting cover available and the population would have exploded, but it did just the opposite. The hurricane seems to have sucked all the birds up into the stratosphere. Tough hunting here. I joined a lease of 2000 acres outside of Purvis. Only 1 bird was killed on the entire lease, and it's managed very well (burned annually in late Feb). Some of the best habitat I've ever seen for 'sip birds.

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Good point Setterman! Outrage with the 4 bird limit! How many did you kill this year?
 
megalomaniac":aaw1rezk said:
Jbird, it.just doesn't make sense, but to me it seemed to happen the season after Katrina. You would think that would have made more nesting cover available and the population would have exploded, but it did just the opposite. The hurricane seems to have sucked all the birds up into the stratosphere. Tough hunting here. I joined a lease of 2000 acres outside of Purvis. Only 1 bird was killed on the entire lease, and it's managed very well (burned annually in late Feb). Some of the best habitat I've ever seen for 'sip birds.

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Yeah man that doesn't make sense at all. I'm a little S of you in west central Pearl River County but our hunting actually was good after Katrina up until about 2013. A noticeable decline started around 2014 and it got about at bad as I've seen between then and 2017. There has been an ever so slight improvement this year but still nowhere near what it was. Two years ago, I joined a lease about 60 miles NNW of me just to have a few birds to hunt. If you don't already, make sure you do the MDWFP Spring Gobbler Survey and let you thoughts be known. It may not do any good but at least you're giving your perspective.
 
Jbird, I firmly believe that MS's poor reproduction is also related to opening the season too early. Several people down here know I have legal wild turkeys, and I had 2 people actually call me and offer me eggs from nests they disrupted during bushhogging. One was on April 30th, but the other was just last week on May 5th. The pictures they sent me of the broken eggs had embroys that looked to be in the 10-14d of development stage. In other words, those hens didn't start laying until WELL after our mid March season opening.

And NO, I did not accept the remaining good eggs, and told them it was illegal to take them from the wild. I told them I could not jeopardize my legal flock by accepting any of them. Neither had any idea that they could not remove the eggs.
 
I could be wrong but I believe the majority of the hens that are laying that late probably had their nest raided/destroyed and are likely re-nesting. That's just my personal opinion. I do agree that the opener could stand to be pushed back a bit for the sake of better reproduction.
 
That the 7 or 8 Gobblers we left alive and gobbling on the last day, will be more than enough to keep us busy for the 6 weeks of the 2019 Spring season and that these "wild" turkeys will begin breeding in mid March and continue breeding on into June in these SE Tn Mountains, despite what the "experts" say ;)
 

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