Can I get your thoughts

[deerchaser007]

This year more than the last 2 more and more hunters are recognizing the decline in parts of southern middle and west and other isolated areas. I have researched and put lots of thought into the past 3 years. I'm read many ideas tossed by other hunters on this forum and others. But here is what I'm thinking about proposing this year for my comments.
It has become very obvious in areas the turkey decline is real. Do I think the whole state should be punished by a lower limit because of declining numbers is areas. NO! But, we as hunters,managers, and conservationist owe it to all the hard work that was done to restore our population, that we do all we can to protect the population for our future hunters. I propose we as hunters and the agency to take our brood surveys more seriously. And manage our turkey to brood survey research along with county harvest numbers, not a statewide census. With any agenda, cost must be associated. In the past, twra has not put much focus on our brood surveys, some years not even done them at all. NWTF will tell you and any true turkey biologist will tell you nothing is more important for our population than the brood survey. TWRC sets limits before our brood surveys are even completed, and this is a huge mistake if we have consecutive years of poor hatches.
What I propose is take volunteers from each county and let them work with the game warden of each county to acheive a much more successful brood survey. The agency can have a class set up for the wardens of each county on what data needs to be observed, and when this data needs to be collected, and how often it needs to be done. Then, the officer can meet with his volunteers in the county, give them a observation card to be filled, teach them what to look for, and report back that data to the officer. At that time, the officer can send that data to our turkey biologist Joy Sweaney, for county observation. If it does not meet the agency standard of 2.7 poult per hen, she can recommend to the TWRC for change in fall hunting numbers based off the brood surveys. Each county to have at 1 volunteer for every 100 sq miles of the size of the county, and each volunteer will have a zone in that county that they are to observe. The more volunteers, the more zones that can be allocated.

Your thoughts please

 

[TheLBLman]

Your ideas are good. Just not sure if TWRA has the funds to "go for" their part of the proposition.

I agree those brood surveys may be the most important aspect of ongoing turkey management.

I would personally be happy to work with my county wildlife officers in assisting with fall poult counts.

 

[TheLBLman]

It has become very obvious in areas the turkey decline is real. Do I think the whole state should be punished by a lower limit because of declining numbers is areas. NO!

At the same time, let's keep in mind the turkey limit was only recently increased to 4, whereas it had been 3 for a number of years, and had been 2 for even more years prior to that. Heck, it used to be one (1) annually, and there was zero fall hunting.

Under a 2-bird limit, I can think of nowhere the turkey flocks didn't appear to grow & expand over each 5-yr period. We really only started having widespread decreases when we went to a 3, then a 4-bird limit. Perhaps the limit is not the primary factor, but it is a contributing factor. I would argue that going back to 2 or 3 is not necessarily punishing anyone, as I have spent most of my nearly 40 years turkey hunting in TN under a 2-bird, or a 1-bird limit.

I'll tell you what WAS "punishment". :mrgreen:
Back in the early 80's I had land (Southern Stewart Co., TN) with a respectable turkey population and old gobblers dying of old age. But the southern portion of Stewart County was CLOSED to turkey hunting until sometime later. Where I had the most turkeys with the most old gobblers, was the one place I couldn't hunt, not because there wasn't a good turkey population, but because TWRA had made the limit zero (0) so the turkeys could grow the flock. TWRA actually "micro-managed" the turkey flocks over three decades ago, doing regular brood surveys, and having even parts of counties CLOSED to turkey hunting. Back then, TWRA's storyline (with which I agreed) was that ANY spring disturbances reduced nesting success.

The consistently best turkey hunting I've experienced in TN was back when we had a 2-bird limit.
Today, speak with avid turkey hunters who regularly hunt both TN and KY (where they still have a 2-bird limit), and ask them where they enjoy turkey hunting most. Yes, this is somewhat an apple to a pear comparison, but it is noteworthy.

Again, the spring gobbler limit isn't the primary factor, but it is one of the very few we can control. Fewer males does equate to less successful nesting, adversely effecting poult recruitment, as well as contributing to decreased gobbling each spring. The less gobbling we hear, the less exciting is turkey hunting.

 

[deerchaser007]

Was you able to find out year went from 2 to 3? I never was able to find.
I know prior to 2003 brood surveys met standard or far greater than standard was recorded, after that the brood surveys declined drastically! In 2006, 4 bird limit. What I'm focusing on is stability from our brood surveys. Even when we went from 2 to 3 we was having successful poult production to cover it. Question is, if we were still having brood surveys at standard 2.7 or greater, could every area support a 4 limit. It's a question that can't be answered because we cannot meet the standard.

 

[megalomaniac]

Brood surveys are worthless unless TWRA is willing to change limits based on them... Just mental masturbation otherwise. Hate to be so blunt, but there really isn't reason to expend resources collecting the data if the powers that be just graph it annually without acting on the data.