Been reading through alot of the 1 buck vs 3 buck threads and one thing comes to mind. TWRA has done a good job of holding on to the liberal limits, based on sound management practices and teh desires of the slim majority of todays hunters. Even as states close by have folded under the pressure of the big buck movement TN has held their ground. In fact, proponents of the more liberal limits have celebrated most of the victories lately, including getting the extra days added back to the season in January. However, TN alone is not strong enough to withstand the title wave that is pushing deer hunting as a sport. The face of deer hunting has changed from a sustenance hunting and familiy tradition to an elitist sport that focuses on deer that have high scoring racks. The industry through mass media has sold the reality that deer hunting is trophy hunting,. I teach wildlfe management and like it or not, most of the kids in my classes come in viweing deer hunting as the quest for large racks. I support a one or two buck limit, but not as vocally as i once did, as i hunt out of state for deer more than i do in state any more. In truth, i am ok if we stay the way are. But i can tell many of you will have a hard time dealing with a lower buck limit/shorter season if it happens. When you should be prepared to deal with When it happens. I have wondered if some of the attacks on TWRA as of late, could have been rooted somewhat in TWRA deer management policies. Of course that is nothing more than heresay and speculation. Once again, i am actually pretty neutral on this but i think the wolf is at our door and sooner or later we will have to open it. BIG BUCKS EQUAL BIG BUCKS. and money talks. for good or bad. what say you?
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"Cant Stop the Wind"
- Thread starter redblood
- Start date
I'd say I'll not see a one buck limit in TN in my lifetime.
Now, a two buck limit might be another matter....
However, if hunters think either will equate to a major increase in high scoring racks in TN I predict they will be very disappointed.
Now, a two buck limit might be another matter....
However, if hunters think either will equate to a major increase in high scoring racks in TN I predict they will be very disappointed.
SelphLogging
Well-Known Member
I agree with you scn, in that 1 buck limit is 0-5% chance ever happening. 2 maybe. But my view point on the larger racks, is that, no, TN will never duplicate any state that is ahead of us in the trophy class deer. I would say that maybe 1 out of 25 bucks have the potential of the worthy name of a GIANT, and that may be to leniant. But my thought is the more that reach the age of 4.5+, the more larger racks there will be. So yes, there will be more high scoring racks running around if the state does some improvements to help reach those ages. But NO, there will definately not be a GIANT everytime you turn around being killed. Just more deer given the chance to blossom into that caliber. But it takes right location to do so as well...
scn said:I'd say I'll not see a one buck limit in TN in my lifetime.
Now, a two buck limit might be another matter....
However, if hunters think either will equate to a major increase in high scoring racks in TN I predict they will be very disappointed.
i dont think its matter if it will increase in the actual numbers, as long as people perceive that it will. kind of like a hail mary through at the end of a football game. they rarely work, but you through em anyway just for an increased chance of winning.
SelphLogging said:I agree with you scn, in that 1 buck limit is 0-5% chance ever happening. 2 maybe. But my view point on the larger racks, is that, no, TN will never duplicate any state that is ahead of us in the trophy class deer. I would say that maybe 1 out of 25 bucks have the potential of the worthy name of a GIANT, and that may be to leniant. But my thought is the more that reach the age of 4.5+, the more larger racks there will be. So yes, there will be more high scoring racks running around if the state does some improvements to help reach those ages. But NO, there will definately not be a GIANT everytime you turn around being killed. Just more deer given the chance to blossom into that caliber. But it takes right location to do so as well...
location is key no doubt
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
While I share most these sentiments, I don't think things are as bleak as you.redblood said:However, TN alone is not strong enough to withstand the title wave that is pushing deer hunting as a sport. The face of deer hunting has changed from a sustenance hunting and familiy tradition to an elitist sport that focuses on deer that have high scoring racks. The industry through mass media has sold the reality that deer hunting is trophy hunting,. . . . . . BIG BUCKS EQUAL BIG BUCKS. and money talks. for good or bad. what say you?
Fads come and go, and to some degree, the industry and hunting shows have created a fad that deer hunting is trophy hunting. In the earlier stages, yes, big bucks did equal big bucks. But I don't see that so much in the future. Just keep in mind the law of supply and demand ultimately trumps everything else, just may take time to be realized. Doesn't matter if we're talking about the housing markets, gasoline, deer, or deer hunting.
Hunters are becoming more educated regarding realistic expectations. Couple this with greater "supply" of mature bucks, both in TN and other states, and fewer hunters (the "demand" side). Speaking of the "supply" of more older bucks, especially those with large antlers, I say states such as Kentucky are greatly effecting the demand in the State of Illinois. There has never been more "supply" of places to hunt for "trophy" bucks (describe them any way you wish).
I say we hunters are evolving more into hunter-managers who are both meat hunters and "trophy" hunters. But we're realizing that a mature buck can be as much or more the "trophy" as some younger buck with larger antlers. We're also realizing an old doe can be an even greater hunting challenge than an old buck, minus the antlers, an even greater "trophy". In times past, nearly all hunting was "buck only", so if we ate venison, it was a buck. Today, most hunters prefer doe meat as table fare, and most hunters do eat venison. Better yet, more and more non-hunters are readily eating venison (with much credit to programs such as "Hunters for the Hungry).
Despite much loss of hunting land to development, as well as many formerly "public" lands becoming "private", at least in the case of deer hunting, there are more places for deer hunting in TN than just 20 years ago.
Yes, I realized that vast acreages of timber company lands were once available to the public for deer hunting, and are not today. However, a huge number of deer hunters are now "privately" hunting most of those same timber company lands. At the same time, the deer herd has expanded greatly in parts of both East and West TN. Many counties that had little deer hunting 20 years ago, now have lots of deer hunting, and most of that deer hunting has never been so good as it is now.
These are the good old days of deer hunting in TN, and I expect it to get even better, for ALL deer hunters, regardless of whether you're more a "meat" or "trophy" hunter. No, we can't stop the wind, and time will take its toll on the future of deer hunting. But I do believe we have a few years left of it getting better before it gets worse.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
And you, through your teaching, are helping direct this "hunter-manager" mindset to those younger hunters whose views have been distorted. Thank you.redblood said:I teach wildlfe management and like it or not, most of the kids in my classes come in viweing deer hunting as the quest for large racks.
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
Well-Known Member
thats my thoughts as wellscn said:I'd say I'll not see a one buck limit in TN in my lifetime.
Now, a two buck limit might be another matter....
However, if hunters think either will equate to a major increase in high scoring racks in TN I predict they will be very disappointed.
Hill Country Hunter
Well-Known Member
Wes Parrish said:And you, through your teaching, are helping direct this "hunter-manager" mindset to those younger hunters whose views have been distorted. Thank you.redblood said:I teach wildlfe management and like it or not, most of the kids in my classes come in viweing deer hunting as the quest for large racks.
Ditto.
Wes Parrish said:And you, through your teaching, are helping direct this "hunter-manager" mindset to those younger hunters whose views have been distorted. Thank you.redblood said:I teach wildlfe management and like it or not, most of the kids in my classes come in viweing deer hunting as the quest for large racks.
not in the curriculum for me to shape their views just to introduce regulations and different management principles.
Wes Parrish said:While I share most these sentiments, I don't think things are as bleak as you.redblood said:However, TN alone is not strong enough to withstand the title wave that is pushing deer hunting as a sport. The face of deer hunting has changed from a sustenance hunting and familiy tradition to an elitist sport that focuses on deer that have high scoring racks. The industry through mass media has sold the reality that deer hunting is trophy hunting,. . . . . . BIG BUCKS EQUAL BIG BUCKS. and money talks. for good or bad. what say you?
Fads come and go, and to some degree, the industry and hunting shows have created a fad that deer hunting is trophy hunting. In the earlier stages, yes, big bucks did equal big bucks. But I don't see that so much in the future. Just keep in mind the law of supply and demand ultimately trumps everything else, just may take time to be realized. Doesn't matter if we're talking about the housing markets, gasoline, deer, or deer hunting.
Hunters are becoming more educated regarding realistic expectations. Couple this with greater "supply" of mature bucks, both in TN and other states, and fewer hunters (the "demand" side). Speaking of the "supply" of more older bucks, especially those with large antlers, I say states such as Kentucky are greatly effecting the demand in the State of Illinois. There has never been more "supply" of places to hunt for "trophy" bucks (describe them any way you wish).
I say we hunters are evolving more into hunter-managers who are both meat hunters and "trophy" hunters. But we're realizing that a mature buck can be as much or more the "trophy" as some younger buck with larger antlers. We're also realizing an old doe can be an even greater hunting challenge than an old buck, minus the antlers, an even greater "trophy". In times past, nearly all hunting was "buck only", so if we ate venison, it was a buck. Today, most hunters prefer doe meat as table fare, and most hunters do eat venison. Better yet, more and more non-hunters are readily eating venison (with much credit to programs such as "Hunters for the Hungry).
Despite much loss of hunting land to development, as well as many formerly "public" lands becoming "private", at least in the case of deer hunting, there are more places for deer hunting in TN than just 20 years ago.
Yes, I realized that vast acreages of timber company lands were once available to the public for deer hunting, and are not today. However, a huge number of deer hunters are now "privately" hunting most of those same timber company lands. At the same time, the deer herd has expanded greatly in parts of both East and West TN. Many counties that had little deer hunting 20 years ago, now have lots of deer hunting, and most of that deer hunting has never been so good as it is now.
These are the good old days of deer hunting in TN, and I expect it to get even better, for ALL deer hunters, regardless of whether you're more a "meat" or "trophy" hunter. No, we can't stop the wind, and time will take its toll on the future of deer hunting. But I do believe we have a few years left of it getting better before it gets worse.
i agree we got a few yrs but i do think, for good or bad, the end result is inevitable. simply a sign of the times and the natural evolution of the sport
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
I'm just saying I don't believe "trophy" hunting (for antlers) will be the main factor in, at some point, ending hunting.redblood said:i agree we got a few yrs but i do think, for good or bad, the end result is inevitable. simply a sign of the times and the natural evolution of the sport
Hunting will likely be outlawed at some point in the future, or else virtually non-existent, or cost-prohibitive to most. But small among the contributing factors will be "trophy" hunting.
I agree. And i beleive if you are a serious hunter and want to be for some time, you better invest in land. Now is a great time with distressed prices and low interest rates. I see alot of the se guys on here who live in subdivisions showing pics od new trucks and new UTV's who would be better served to purchase a small parcel of land. They could have a guarnateed place to hunt for less per month and the value of their investment will accrue in time
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Just owning land is not a guarantee of a future place to hunt, although if you can afford a minimum of several hundred acres, it increases the likelihood. Even buying farmland in rural Illinois is no guarantee to a future place to deer hunt. Politics may become the biggest wild card, not who owns the land. But as they say in real estate, location is everything.
I expect some states, such as Tennessee, to have legal "sport" deer hunting for possibly decades after some state may make it illegal. Those states that outlaw "sport" hunting will still be killing deer, but it may be government hunters selectively killing them year round solely for population control. This is not happening overnight, but it's already in process and happening to some degree in many large urban areas. Doubt we see hunting outlawed in Tennessee in the next couple decades, but do think it's more than just a remote possibility within the next 50 years. And, imo, the best bet to see this happen later instead of sooner is focusing more on small-game hunting. Not saying we avid deer hunters shouldn't continue with our passion, just suggesting we participate and promote more small-game hunting as it appears more a "hook" into turning a non-hunter into a lifetime hunter. Having a certain percentage of the voting populace being hunters is our best guarantee for having a future place to hunt.
Where I grew up doing much of my hunting, where I killed my first deer, is still family owned, and I could still hunt there if I wanted. But being surrounded by subdivisions, and now having more dogs than deer, I have no desire to hunt there. Within the next few years, I expect this area to be "annexed" into the city limits, and therefore hunting on it as I once knew it, illegal. Ironically, it was purchased about 45 years ago in large part because it was "prime deer hunting land" and my family had no deer on any of their other land holdings.
I should add that today I have more and better places to deer hunt (in TN) than I ever dreamed possible as a young hunter a few decades ago, and it has nothing to do with deep pockets, little to do with money. It has mostly to do with there being deer today where they weren't yesterday. Some of the TN places I hunted last year had no deer, no deer season at all less than 25 years ago, and offered far better deer hunting than I had ever experienced when I was under the age of 25.
I expect some states, such as Tennessee, to have legal "sport" deer hunting for possibly decades after some state may make it illegal. Those states that outlaw "sport" hunting will still be killing deer, but it may be government hunters selectively killing them year round solely for population control. This is not happening overnight, but it's already in process and happening to some degree in many large urban areas. Doubt we see hunting outlawed in Tennessee in the next couple decades, but do think it's more than just a remote possibility within the next 50 years. And, imo, the best bet to see this happen later instead of sooner is focusing more on small-game hunting. Not saying we avid deer hunters shouldn't continue with our passion, just suggesting we participate and promote more small-game hunting as it appears more a "hook" into turning a non-hunter into a lifetime hunter. Having a certain percentage of the voting populace being hunters is our best guarantee for having a future place to hunt.
Where I grew up doing much of my hunting, where I killed my first deer, is still family owned, and I could still hunt there if I wanted. But being surrounded by subdivisions, and now having more dogs than deer, I have no desire to hunt there. Within the next few years, I expect this area to be "annexed" into the city limits, and therefore hunting on it as I once knew it, illegal. Ironically, it was purchased about 45 years ago in large part because it was "prime deer hunting land" and my family had no deer on any of their other land holdings.
I should add that today I have more and better places to deer hunt (in TN) than I ever dreamed possible as a young hunter a few decades ago, and it has nothing to do with deep pockets, little to do with money. It has mostly to do with there being deer today where they weren't yesterday. Some of the TN places I hunted last year had no deer, no deer season at all less than 25 years ago, and offered far better deer hunting than I had ever experienced when I was under the age of 25.
Winchester
Well-Known Member
Here is the best answer to the problem imo!Having a certain percentage of the voting populace being hunters is our best guarantee for having a future place to hunt.
Winchester said:Here is the best answer to the problem imo!Having a certain percentage of the voting populace being hunters is our best guarantee for having a future place to hunt.
that is great. but it wont help when all the land is leased at 25 an acre
know of a farm in lincoln county that leased today for $12 an acre.
