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BowGuy84

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I'd heard talk of this deer, and finally saw it on tv tonight. T-bone's shot looks pretty good, but according to the video (not sure if you can find it on the net) it went 2000 yards before Waddel shot it.

Here is his explination: http://www.google.com/search?client=saf ... 8&oe=UTF-8

After Gil's post this past year I have started to revisit and revise my thoughts on bow shot deer. Thoughts?
 
BowGuy84 said:
After Gil's post this past year I have started to revisit and revise my thoughts on bow shot deer. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
When I worked in New Orleans (2006-2008), I met and worked with a pretty good acquaintance/friend of Pat Reeves (before I had ever heard of Pat and his show, Driven 24/7). My co-worker/friend Jimmy was an exclusive hard core bow hunter, always bow hunting Buffalo County, WI for deer, and traveling to TX and other states in the off season just to fling arrows at whatever they would allow him to. He was bow and arrow to the core. He got to telling me about the video footage (not released at the time) of Pat shooting a deer named Moses at Bluff Country Outfitters. He had happened to see the footage before it was shown on air and he harped and harped and harped about how perfect of a shot Pat put on the deer, only to never find it. He went on and on about how he could not believe that deer got away and that Pat was sick because not only had he not recovered the great buck, but he and everyone who saw the footage was sure the buck of a lifetime was dead. They were dead wrong as he was still alive and actively partaking in the rut over the next few months, trail cam pics proved this. Trevor Oleson killed the deer about two months later with a gun. I have never had the opportunity to see the footage, as much as I would love to, but if you read the comments below in some of the forums, it appears my buddy Jimmy was not too far off in his assertion that the shot looked perfect, but was so far from it. I have never forgot Jimmy's story and the lesson that goes along with it - things aren't always as they appear.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunt ... night.html

http://nextbukoutdoors.com/messageboard ... f=8&t=2434

http://archeryaddix.com/forums/showthre ... -and-moses

http://www.bluffcountryoutfitters.com/trophy_2006.html (Moses is the buck at the bottom)
 
I hunted with bluff country outfitters where pat shot the buck, it was a giant! Tom indrebo had a long history with Moses. I let several 135-140 class bucks walk on my hunt there, it is a great operation! Trevor and geno his father have killed a few bruisers there!
 
I always go for the lungs.....it looks like many experienced shooters go for the heart.....and can sometimes miss it...!

This is indeed a great deer and a weird story......

My biggest deer to date walked off with an arrow and a muzzy broadhead still in his back, never to be found....never found the arrow either..

huge non-typical deer......still sick about it after almost ten years.

Hunting is not for the faint of heart!
 
Here is his explination: http://www.google.com/search?client=saf ... 8&oe=UTF-8

After Gil's post this past year I have started to revisit and revise my thoughts on bow shot deer. Thoughts? [/quote]

I have taken many deer with the bow and i can tell you that on at least 6 occasions i shot what i thought to be a perfect lung area shot that did not produce a kill...................but.....i will say that all were on "steep" angles and i attribute the non fatal hits to that one factor..........
someone posted on here about a year ago of a deer shot thru the lung area and left a large hole and then followed up by subsequent photos of that doe looking perfectly healthy..... :cool:
 
camoman270 said:
Here is his explination: http://www.google.com/search?client=saf ... 8&oe=UTF-8

After Gil's post this past year I have started to revisit and revise my thoughts on bow shot deer. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I have taken many deer with the bow and i can tell you that on at least 6 occasions i shot what i thought to be a perfect lung area shot that did not produce a kill...................but.....i will say that all were on "steep" angles and i attribute the non fatal hits to that one factor..........
someone posted on here about a year ago of a deer shot thru the lung area and left a large hole and then followed up by subsequent photos of that doe looking perfectly healthy..... :cool: [/quote]


I remember the post. He shot it with a Rage and looked real hard for the doe. He did not find her.

A couple days later, a trail cam picker her up showing the entrance hit. Looked good.

THen, a few days after that another trail cam picked up pics of the exit wound. UNREAL.

I printed this pic and showed it to my hunting camp buddies.

We had all seen it before on our own deer.

Hard to believe that a double lung hit deer can survive. But trust me, they can given the right circumstances and fat and skin.

It is called an occlusive dressing.
 
so you are saying that if an arrow or bullet catches both lungs, a deer can survive?

maybe if a deer is shot in these areas and it appears that both lungs were hit, it can survive, but NOT if both lungs are HIT!

What may happen, is that the lungs are not fully inflated when the projectile passes through, along with the angle, I can see how this could happen..maybe it catches a rib, as well....many things could happen...imo.

in most cases, one lung hit will kill a deer, but in all cases, if both lungs are penetrated, the deer will die...they can not breath with holes in both lungs...right??.
 
Not to say this is the cause but I watched an experiment done on broadheads; sharp versus dull. It difference between the after effects of the arrow passing through and the wound closing up or remaining open were amazing. Basically (under microscope) it was the difference between a tear and a cut.

There are "sweet spots" inbetween a deer's vital an arrow can pass through without inflicting major damage to organs.
 
in most cases, one lung hit will kill a deer, but in all cases, if both lungs are penetrated, the deer will die...they can not breath with holes in both lungs...right??.

That is what I thought. But I was wrong.

It is rare, but entirely possible for a deer to have a double lung shot and survive.

If the position of the deers body is such that when they react (or prior to) the shot, muscle, fat, and skin are all pulled away
from the entrance and exit holes and then COVER the entrance exit holes when the deer returns to its "normal" body position, it MIGHT be enough to allow negative pressure in the chest cavity and diaphram funtion. THis may result in oxygen supply to the blood.

Clotting can occur quickly with deer which facilitates even more oxygen exchange.

There have been pen raised deer injured in captivity where one lung is damaged and in MANY cases, had little ill affects from the wound.

I have told this story before, but a buddy anesthesilogist of mine did not believe me about the two lung survivability of a deer. That is, until he made a double lung shot on a buck and had to track it down and finish it off hours later.

I have ZERO experience with hardly ANY gun shot wounds on deer.Almost all (27) of the gun kills I have made were quick.

But then, bullets kill with hydrostatic shock while arrows use hemorhagenic (blood loss).

Still, aim for the lungs, 99 % of the time, you will see them fall.

102
 
BowGuy84,
I have always heard that the liver shot is deadly every time.
I have seen a few liver shot deer and all left a pretty good blood trail and all were recovered within 300 yards.

I always assumed a double lung shot deer was a dead deer.
Never would have dreamed otherwise.
 
Liver hit deer are DEAD deer. PERIOD.
Unlike the chest cavity, the abdominal cavity has the distinct and almost always fatal potential of "septisemia" (or blood poisoning).
It is an infectious, painful, slow death caused by fecal matter getting into the bloodstream via open wound channels.

Liver hit deer can and do live a LONG time. It all depends on where the wound channel passes through the liver. There are several areas inside the liver that do not involve MAJOR arteries.
In fact, I have video of a muzzle loader kill that absolutely destroyed one lung and half of the liver of a big doe. We jumped this doe about 2 hours after I watched it bed after I shot it. My buddy found it the next morning about 300 yards from where it laid down the first time.

The liver is the largest organ in the deers body.

Except of course, the skin.

Believe it or not, the quickest, most lethal kill on an animal is the kidneys. I've seen deer fall over REAL quick after a kidney shot. But I have never seen anyone shoot a deer there on purpose.

102
 
102 said:
Believe it or not, the quickest, most lethal kill on an animal is the kidneys. I've seen deer fall over REAL quick after a kidney shot.
Click to expand...
Funny you mention this. The quickest death shot I ever put on a deer with a bow and arrow was an old doe I shot few years back in the femoral artery (hind quarter). Talking about pure luck, well that is what I had that afternoon. I got about 4-5" of penetration before she ran 3-4 yards and fell over dead as a doornail, literally. I remember thinking, what in the he!! just happened and where in the world did I hit her? I was clueless and pretty much knew something was amiss. My second thought was that must be what it is like to shoot one with a pod (like I had heard of hunters in MS doing back in the day). I have no personal experience with pods, only going on hearsay from some old heads around here. Regardless, that lucky shot was the most lethal and humane kill shot I have ever witnessed with a stick and string. The ribbing came later than night when I had to explain the point of impact to all my buddies as well as how I missed my intended target (lungs) by two foot or better. That was a lot of fun......for them. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. :)
 
Yes, and guess what major artery runs alongside the kidneys?

DEADLY shot, but I was talking organs to be clear.

There is another, often over looked artery in a deer that is also lethal. I have seen hunters make this shot and then completely dismiss the need to wait on gut shot deer, assuming wrongfully that if their last deer fell within sight, that this stinky, coffee ground arrow will also cause death to occur very soon. WRONG!!!

The pyloric artery is a fairly large artery inside a deers stomach. If you sever this artery the deer will often fall within sight but it is NOT typical of a gut shot.

102
 
Also...the AORTA is a large MAIN artery and runs under the spine. It branches just past (I think) the kidneys and runs down the inside of both femurs. These two arteries are known as the femural arteries. Sever any of these and death will be quick.
 
Thanks guys. Good info.

My first bow deer came with a shot through the hams. I actually know my arrow went where I wanted because I was shooting through a small hole at a small deer. It jumped the string and stretched out and thus the shot. No mater, arrow didn't look like much but deer gave up the ghost in about 40 yards.

Based on my bad experience with a shoulder shot last year I'm thinking about trying to retrain myself to shoot deer a couple inches further back than I always have. I've always been a crease guy on broadside shots, thinking of moving this to mid lung.
 
Good idea bowguy84.
Crease shots are great shots on relaxed deer at close range. Problem is, even relaxed deer have VERY quick reflexes that can easily turn an arrow headed for both lungs into an arrow in a leg ball socket or elbow joint, both of which rarely result in a recovery.

Conversely, arrows hit BEHIND the crease have a couple options. Double lung, lung liver, liver gut. Any and all of these mean dead deer more often than not.

I have learned to take the first and best shot that I KNOW I can make on an approaching deer. I hate quartering to shots as they often result in a stinky arrow. Still kills the deer but you always question how long to wait before you take up the trail.

My favorite aiming point is the heart. Not as low in the chest as I once thought. Missing this target high means lungs, low means a cut or complete miss (better option than a wound).

Slightly quartering away aiming just behind the opposite shoulder for the exit. Rear of facing lung, low, angled forward, clipped heart and slightly forward of center off side lung. GREAT blood trail, usually see it fall.

102
 
102 said:
Good idea bowguy84.
Crease shots are great shots on relaxed deer at close range. Problem is, even relaxed deer have VERY quick reflexes that can easily turn an arrow headed for both lungs into an arrow in a leg ball socket or elbow joint, both of which rarely result in a recovery.

Conversely, arrows hit BEHIND the crease have a couple options. Double lung, lung liver, liver gut. Any and all of these mean dead deer more often than not.

I have learned to take the first and best shot that I KNOW I can make on an approaching deer. I hate quartering to shots as they often result in a stinky arrow. Still kills the deer but you always question how long to wait before you take up the trail.

My favorite aiming point is the heart. Not as low in the chest as I once thought. Missing this target high means lungs, low means a cut or complete miss (better option than a wound).

Slightly quartering away aiming just behind the opposite shoulder for the exit. Rear of facing lung, low, angled forward, clipped heart and slightly forward of center off side lung. GREAT blood trail, usually see it fall.

102
Click to expand...
On the money, good advice!
As for the lung/double lung shot deer that survive, my experience with tracking literally hundreds of bow shot deer, is the high lung shots are most likely to see the deer live for much longer and maybe even heal from the wound.
Aiming for the heart on a broadside deer is the highest odds shot, as 102 explained a high miss, which is what always results from a deer reacting to the shot, will get you lungs, where a low miss will simply be just that and no tough tracking job follows.
 

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