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Crow Terminator

Crow Terminator

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I bought some Victory VForce arrows in the early part of the year to shoot tourneys with. These would be considered normal size carbon shafts for hunting but they are very durable and heavy (compared to a target shaft). The problem is, I selected them for shooting 53 pounds with 85 grain tips so I could be ASA legal for 3Ds. They shoot 286 fps and are 400 spine. This is 343 grains total weight, at 66.93 lbs of KE. The software says this is a perfect spine for my setup at 53 pounds and it shoots really good!

I would rather shoot 60 pounds for hunting, but THAT is going to throw the spine out the window and make the 400s weak, and everybody knows broadheads group better with stiff arrows vs weak ones. Thus I will need some new arrows if I crank 'er down some. That's where you guys come in. I'm wanting some opinions on whether I should just keep the 53 pound setup and shoot the 400s or bump up the poundage to 60 and go with new arrows. Here are my options if I go that route:

Easton Axis NT Fused - 340 spine - 382 grains @ 287 fps. BUT 70.27 lbs KE.

Easton Axis Obsession - 340 spine - 404 grains @ 283.4 fps. with 72.00 lbs KE.

Yes I realize I could go with several arrow options in that 340-350 spine range. I could even go with the speed shafts and be getting 300-305 fps but my KE would remain around 65 lbs and I don't see the benefit of 10-15 fps anyway. Now this is what the software is generating for my setup with my specs fine tuned via actual chrony speeds and arrow weight/setup.

The big question: is gaining 3-5 pounds of KE worth $100? Will be shooting 85 grain Grim Reapers.
 
To answer your question in the simpliest form--No, it is not worth it. 35 ft/lbs will is enough to kill any whitetail in North America. If you are proficent with your current setup and can get good broadhead groups, then leave it alone unless you have an extra $100 laying around and extra time re-tuning everything for the new arrows.
 
I don't think its worth the change. How much more speed will it produce with the weight change?

If I was in your shoes, I would leave it alot and use what you have right now.
 
Can you cut them down ? It will stiffen the spine . I shoot a .400 spine arrow at 60 lbs. ,but I cut them as short as I can to keep the correct spine while still having at least 1" clearance past the arrow rest.
 
outbackhunter2010 said:
400 will shoot fine at 60 lbs i would crank it down and try it first,i have always shot 400 spine at 62lbs with 29 draw with perfect broadheadflight
Click to expand...

Agree, the 400 spine will be fine with 60# no problem. If you cut them and leave one inch in front of the rest they should be plenty stiff enough for your setup.

I wouldnt spend $ unless you had to.
I shoot the Easton 340 and love them. If $ isnt an issue, then I wuold call up and order for the St Axis 340 or the St Epic 340
St Epics are the ones I like best.

Try Archery Talk classifieds, there always on there for sale used.
 
I had a major brain fart. Somewhere between the 2009 tourney season and now, I must have played with the tiller adjustments on the bow and forgot about it. A few weeks ago I thought the bow was already on 60 pounds so I took all my chrony data and arrow weight via digital scale, and wrote it all down. Today I took 2 rounds out of it to get it back to around 53-54 pounds. I had to shoot the arrows again to verify the speed, because I had added wraps to the arrows since the last time, and I wanted to see how close the software programs were. Well to my surprise they were off BIG TIME. The wraps increased my arrow weight to 363.3 grains. My average speed per 3 shots was 270.1 fps.

I mark my limb set screws with a marker so I know the tiller is set even per round, and some of the marker had rubbed off. I got some white out and was going to readjust some things and figured I'd start from scratch...so here is the kicker. I started tightening it down all the way...1 round...2 rounds...and went to snug it down when I noticed it still had a lot of play. Hmm. Evidently I had been shooting this bow backed out 1 round the whole time, so when I backed it out the 2 rounds THINKING it was already maxed out to 60, I had really backed it out 3 rounds. 3 rounds was more like 50-51 pounds.

I marked the limb bolts and backed it out 2 rounds. Reshot the arrows thru the chrony and this time the average was 290 fps with the 363 grain Victory VForce 400s. Now that puts the software's calculations and my data where it should have been all the while; I had to make major offsets. Just a brain fart on my end. The 400s are rated for 45-60 pound bows but the 82nd Airborne is a double cam bow with very short brace height. In other words, it packs way more whallop than a normal 270-280 fps 60 pound bow and it does shoot better with a stiffer spine. Both of my arrow software programs say the 400 is weak for the 82nd at 60 lbs, and I found the same to be true during the 3D shoots when selecting a 3D arrow. I didn't have the software at the time and found it out via trial and error...the 82nd needs a stiffer spine than what the online charts say or it wont group.
 
Like I said before , spine will vary depending on the length of your arrow . If you can cut them down and still have clearance past the rest , you will stiffen the spine.
I shoot a 27.5" .400 spine arrow from a 60 lb. HCA Speed pro X-10 and my other 3 bows without any issues when the arrows are cut to accommodate the spine for that given arrow length . Your arrows can be cut shorter than your draw length if you have centershot clearance on the riser and past the arrow rest.
It depends on your draw length ? If you have a 28-28.5" draw length , you may be able to cut them down to 27-27.5" and still be within your correct spine up to 66 lbs.
http://www.victoryarchery.com/SizingCharts.aspx
 
Radar -- My draw length will vary from bow to bow (depending on what A-A length the bow is). With the 82nd being a longer A-A bow, a 28.5 would be perfect in it for me, but since I shoot with a d-loop, that puts me with 28" draw modules and a d-loop on the string. With the D-Loop it makes me a tad short but short is good when dealing with a 6" brace height bow anyway...especially a hunting bow shot when wearing bulky clothes.

My arrows are cut 27.25" from shaft end to end and are 27.50" from nock throat to insert end. I usually have mine cut to the nearest 1/4 inch but in this case they are as short as they can go. I could go to a lighter tip to also stiffen the spine a bit but I want to shy away from that. With the wraps added to nock end, it already shrunk the FOC to 9.74% anyway.

I'm gonna have to do something here in the next few weeks. I rounded up all my Victory shafts and I only have 4 of them left anyway. Here is where the 400 Victorys land on the software scale with the 82nd, and with TAPS it's in the same basic spot:

82ndspine.jpg
 
I'm shooting Easton ST Epics with a 400 spine at 27.5" at 62 lbs. and with broadhead group tuning , I'm getting a weak spine indication with the broadhead group left of center , no matter what my center shot is .
I added a little weight to my tips , now they group together . Go figure . According to the spine chart on the website , your arrows are right on the money for the draw weight and length . I don't do the computer software crap. Just spine charts , shooting and tuning .
 
I'm still down to 4 arrows so I'm going to have to spend money either way I go. I did figure out that I was using the wrong draw length for my stuff via software. I had a brain fart; for some reason I was thinking AMO Draw Length = actual draw length. But AMO draw length is your actual draw lengh + 1.75". So that puts a new spin on things. Right now I'm thinking I'm going to stick with the 2 rounds out.

BTW -- The software is just an up to date spine chart. It basically allows for more shaft choices and to see ALL manufacturers at once in one place, but allows you to be more precise. I don't use all the other stuff it does but the spine selector is worth it when you compare to what you would be spending by buying various shafts and playing.
 

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