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Andy S.

Andy S.

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This is another "what if" scenario like Setterman threw out earlier in the week, but I feel he gave you a more deliberate situation and scenario than these. These are more along the lines of unintended consequences with yourself being the victim/defendant in the end.

Scenario 1: you pull the trigger on a male bird, and when you walk up you find two male birds dead, both with a single shot, totally unexpected and not deliberate. Legally, you are in a pickle. What do you do? Check in one? Report both same day and know you are getting a ticket in short order with a court date to follow? Check one today, the other tomorrow (assuming you have two tags when you pulled the trigger)?

Scenario 2: you pull the trigger on a male bird, and you you walk up to find a male bird and a hen dead, both from a single shot, totally unexpected and not deliberate. What do you do? Again, legally, you are in a pickle. Check the male bird, and ignore the other? Check the male bird and report the hen knowing you are getting a ticket in short order with a court date to follow?

There seemed to be a lot of interest, opinions and passionate posters with Setterman's topic, so I expect the same with this thread. :)

On a side note, if he would, I would like scn to weigh in and explain to us how each situation would be handled if properly reported to the local game warden. I "believe" the officer has no choice but to issue the hunter a citation for the infraction and the hunter has his/her day in court. If my mind serves me right, ex-Titans coach Jeff Fisher found himself in this predicament a decade or so ago when he killed two male birds with a single shot, reported it to a warden, and ended up in court.

scn - I would also like to know if a hunter killed two males with one shot, turns himself in, and gets a citation, does he have to burn one tag, or two tags, assuming he has two remaining at that point.

Setterman's post and LBLMan's post of "collateral damage" that we are often unaware got me to thinking about these scenarios so figured I would put them out there for all to chime in and enjoy. :tu:
 
Oh boy, here goes :rotf:

I've done both more than once for one of them. It's embarrassing to write these but hopefully the jury takes it easy on me, as I hunt a lot and sometimes strange unfortunate things happen.

1. I've had this happen twice. Once at Oak Ridge a long time ago. I pulled into the check station with both birds and explained what happened. I was written a warning and told to be more careful in the future. The situation was strange, I called a bird in and he ran his head up over a ridge line. I shoot, and he vanishes. I stand up and walk over to the lip,to see my bird and when I crest the hill I don't see him yet there is a gobbler standing there at about 25 yards. I assumed (wrongly) that I missed and hammered the bird standing, on the way to him I see the first bird stone dead. I felt like a huge piece of poop, killing two birds on public land and robbing someone else of the opportunity. I deserved a ticket but got away with a warning.

Second time, it was the last day of the season. I still had a tag so was out in the jungle thick woods, I struck a bird mid morning and after 2 hours he finally committed. The woods were summer green that year and I couldn't see but a little window. I took my time to make sure it was a long beard and when I confirmed it was I took an easy shot. He rolls on impact and as I go to him I noticed another bird flopping behind him about 30 yards. It was a jake that I never saw because the foliage. I called the local CO and told him what had happened and he told me to simply be more careful and appreciated my honesty.

2. Again this situation is bizarre and I still don't see how it happened. Many years ago I was in Roane county. At daylight I set up on a bird that was gobbling. Quickly I realized this bird was accompanied by many hens. At flydown they all pitch down and proceed to head my way. The gobbler was leading the pack and I let him get clear of his hens before killing him. After that shot a hen is laying stone dead 40 yards to the left of where he died. All the hens had drifted that way and were beyond clear of my shot column. However this hen took a single pellet to the eye and was stone dead. To this day I don't know how it happened, on this one I did not call or report it. I hate admitting that but this was a very long time ago, and I'm trying to be honest.


Weird stuff happens sometimes. Sometimes it's our fault for not being ultra careful other times it's just bad luck I've made mistakes in the past and learned from those, however I have no doubt it won't be the last sadly.
 
The 2 bearded birds happened to a buddy of mine while we were hunting together. Called the warden and he asked if he had any tags left, told him to check one in the next day.

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Good discussion but the caveat is that these are honest mistakes and not deliberate, correct?

So here is my stance; My buddy and I were hunting out of state and a similar situation happened. We called the State Fish and Wildlife. Once the officer showed up he gave us a verbal warning and wrote his name and number on the back of the tag, thanked us for being honest and wished us luck on the rest of the trip.

Now, if we would have been treated like the guys who deliberately cheat and are intentional with their actions I'm sure my opinion would change. So for now, I'm taking the high road. I would also consider going a step further and police myself, meaning I might hang up the gun for the year or at minimum be so dang nervous about screwing up again I wouldn't take another shot the rest of the year. It's actually how I feel if I wound a animal and cannot recover it. I beat myself up over it.

FYI...No, it's not the same as turning yourself in for speeding[emoji14]




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I once (accidentally) killed 3 with one shot. Here is the kicker.... I missed the one I shot at.

This was my second year hunting, I was prob 17 or so. I had called up 7 jakes that showed up over a rise in a field. They was all grouped up so I didn't shoot.... eventually all of them disappeared over the hill except one. I shot at him and he flew over about 20 yds and stopped so I shot again and killed him. When I went over to get him, there were 3 more dead 40 yds beyond the rise. I had killed 2 jakes and a hen unknowingly with the first shot. You talk about feeling like an idiot! I was a nervous wreck but no I did not report it. Learned a valuable lesson of shooting one on top of a peak.


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Luckily hasn't happened to me. Not sure what I would do.


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cbhunter":24mq920s said:
I once (accidentally) killed 3 with one shot. Here is the kicker.... I missed the one I shot at.

This was my second year hunting, I was prob 17 or so. I had called up 7 jakes that showed up over a rise in a field. They was all grouped up so I didn't shoot.... eventually all of them disappeared over the hill except one. I shot at him and he flew over about 20 yds and stopped so I shot again and killed him. When I went over to get him, there were 3 more dead 40 yds beyond the rise. I had killed 2 jakes and a hen unknowingly with the first shot. You talk about feeling like an idiot! I was a nervous wreck but no I did not report it. Learned a valuable lesson of shooting one on top of a peak.


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Click to expand...
Sorry to laugh but if you do this sport long enough and shoot at enough of them weird stuff happens. It doesn't make us slob hunters or unethical it's just bad luck. After all we are shooting shotguns and the chances of collateral damage is high unfortunately
 
The obvious answer is to self report to the local officer and let him/her deal with the situation. By self-reporting, the officer has the full range of options ranging from a warning to a court citation. They will handle the tag part. But, in reality, if you are an ethical hunter and shoot two, it should go against your "personal" bag limit whether you are required to burn a tag or not. It is sort of like being on a dove field and knowing you dropped a couple of birds that you can't find. Rather than leaving the field with a full bag limit, the ethical hunter leaves two short knowing there are two more dead ones on the field.
 
I learned a long time ago to never say never but thus far neither scenario has happened to me. I can honestly say that I doubt that it will. I've passed up shots at probably 25% of the number of birds I've killed and watched them walk away ending up in no kill on those hunts because the birds wouldn't separate enough to cleanly kill just one of them. However, if it did happen I think I'd call it in and take whatever they dished out.
 
This is my answer. In my county the less dealings I have with the officers the better. First scenario I'd check one in today one tomorrow. 2nd. I'd eat the hen and hope ur never happened again. No way I'd ever shoot a hen unless 100 per cent accident.
 
Good question!

Can't remember the exact year, but somewhere in the mid 90's I accidentally shot 2 gobblers with one shot. The bird I was hunting was a giant, biggest I've ever killed... he ended up being 26lbs, 1.75in spurs, and 11.5in beard. I had hunted him several days in a group of about 20 hens and another 4 longbeards. They finally got into a field with a deep creek running through the valley before and I snuck to within 75 yards of the whole group. After about 1.5 hours, and multiple passed up shots at the other gobblers, the big gobbler finally started coming to check a hen that was only 2 or 3 yards away from me. When he got to 30 yards, he was completely clear of all other birds and set my cheek on the stock (I was prone with my body down in the creek and only my shoulders and head above the creek bank). Right when I pulled the trigger, the smallest gobbler who was only 5 yards away and 5 yards to my right saw that movement and broke into a full run and literally dashed right into the shot column. The small gobbler was actually one of the smallest longbeards I've ever killed, only 17lbs. I was SICK, and probably madder at the stupid little gobbler more than myself. What I decided to do was dress both, save the carcass of the smaller bird, and checked the big bird in that day and the smaller bird the following day. Back then, the limit was 2, so it effectively ended my whole season, as I didn't have others to take hunting.

If the same thing happened today, I would definetly call my county warden (I have his number in my phone) and explain the situation. Knowing him well, I suspect I would only get a warning if he felt certain it was an honest mistake, but I would be fine receiving a citation/ fine as long as I got to keep the second bird and burn a second tag.

I really don't think this situation has to come up often... I'm with Mike... can't tell how many birds I've passed up because I didn't have a clear shot on a single without chancing hitting another.

If I had to guess, I would think the majority of unintended collateral damage occurs when there is brush/ debris you are shooting through. If the wad and pellets hit something before separating, that pattern is going to be completely blown, and there may be pellets 10 feet away from point of aim at 40 yards.

I'm also with SCN... I strongly feel that we should self regulate- ie, if you kill 2 birds, they should count as 2 of your limit. If you roll a bird or know a bird is hit but gets away, you should count it as one of your limit (you still killed it, just may take a few hours longer and you don't get to recover it).
 
megalomaniac":1exnt757 said:
Good question!

Can't remember the exact year, but somewhere in the mid 90's I accidentally shot 2 gobblers with one shot. The bird I was hunting was a giant, biggest I've ever killed... he ended up being 26lbs, 1.75in spurs, and 11.5in beard. I had hunted him several days in a group of about 20 hens and another 4 longbeards. They finally got into a field with a deep creek running through the valley before and I snuck to within 75 yards of the whole group. After about 1.5 hours, and multiple passed up shots at the other gobblers, the big gobbler finally started coming to check a hen that was only 2 or 3 yards away from me. When he got to 30 yards, he was completely clear of all other birds and set my cheek on the stock (I was prone with my body down in the creek and only my shoulders and head above the creek bank). Right when I pulled the trigger, the smallest gobbler who was only 5 yards away and 5 yards to my right saw that movement and broke into a full run and literally dashed right into the shot column. The small gobbler was actually one of the smallest longbeards I've ever killed, only 17lbs. I was SICK, and probably madder at the stupid little gobbler more than myself. What I decided to do was dress both, save the carcass of the smaller bird, and checked the big bird in that day and the smaller bird the following day. Back then, the limit was 2, so it effectively ended my whole season, as I didn't have others to take hunting.

If the same thing happened today, I would definetly call my county warden (I have his number in my phone) and explain the situation. Knowing him well, I suspect I would only get a warning if he felt certain it was an honest mistake, but I would be fine receiving a citation/ fine as long as I got to keep the second bird and burn a second tag.

I really don't think this situation has to come up often... I'm with Mike... can't tell how many birds I've passed up because I didn't have a clear shot on a single without chancing hitting another.

If I had to guess, I would think the majority of unintended collateral damage occurs when there is brush/ debris you are shooting through. If the wad and pellets hit something before separating, that pattern is going to be completely blown, and there may be pellets 10 feet away from point of aim at 40 yards.

I'm also with SCN... I strongly feel that we should self regulate- ie, if you kill 2 birds, they should count as 2 of your limit. If you roll a bird or know a bird is hit but gets away, you should count it as one of your limit (you still killed it, just may take a few hours longer and you don't get to recover it).
Click to expand...
That's bitter, I laughed but only because after a lifetime of doing this all sorts of stuff happens.
 
I don't know that is tough. i have spoken to the game warden for Rutherford Co. (if he is still the warden) and I could call him, but I don't really know him and I am not a big fan of rewarding honesty with citations, and court dates/costs. I know it is illegal, bu tin this game of hunting especially with shotguns, stuff happens. I have implored the TWRA to allow more than one bird to be killed in one day, so that you could shoot one in the morning and one in the afternoon, but this is just another reason IMO. At the end of the day you have so many tags, once filled season is over. How you fill them or when is irrelevant to me.

Now if you kill two and only have one tag..... IDK use your best judgement.
 
Having a scope on a shotgun helped me avoid this exact situation.

Called in a "single" bird.

Got bird in the scope, squeezed the trigger- gun recoils (Mossy 835) and I see a bird hauling tail past the brush pile where he'd been standing.

I start purring on a diaphragm to get him to stop. He stops and starts nervously walking back toward the brush pile. As he goes behind it I cycle another shell and when he steps around it he's in the open. As I'm getting ready to take the shot I notice his posture along with the feathers on his back and neck that are raised. As I'm watching him through the scope I can see that he's pecking at something. What he's doing is picking the first bird's head up by the snood and dropping it.

I just clicked the safety back to On and sat back and watched the show.
I kept up the purring and when the dead bird started flopping the other bird jumped on him and gave him a good flogging.

He'd get in a few licks and lose interest and start to wander off. I'd let him get about 20' away and then I'd start purring again. As before he'd run back over and jump back on the down bird.

It was one of those hunts that I really wish I had on film.

Reading everyone else's story makes me see how easy it would have been for me to have written off the first shot as a miss and mistakenly killed a second bird.
 
Never had either happen to me as the shooter but was guiding a friend years ago and we were about to call it done and get some lunch when we heard a gobble. We sat down, started calling, and here came a group of jakes. He had never killed one and shot. I was at a bad place so didn't pull the trigger. We got up and there were 2 dead there. While talking the sun hit something just right and about 40 yards away there was a third. He checked one, I checked one, and the relative whose land it was took the other. I honestly don't think he checked it in.
 

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