I may throw in the towel for the year.

[poorhunter]

Haven't even heard a roost gobble since Friday.

I have sole access to around 1200 acres of some of the best turkey hunting properties I've ever seen, and in the last 4 years they have been just that. I could pick and choose whichever one I wanted to hunt and be on turkeys pretty much all day every day. Some have more than others, but all produced quite well. I've been on 7 of 10 of those farms this week and have yet to hear or see a turkey. It must be a local thing to my specific area of the county because while the county harvest is down this year, it's not drastic.
2018-364
2017-501
2016-396
2015-480
2014-467
All these are to this point of the season. I haven't even heard or seen any on neighboring properties either. I have a drive of about 5 miles on the backroads to my house that I always see tons of turkeys each spring in pastures and hay fields, but this year I have only seen turkeys once in one field. This could just be an anomaly, and the turkeys are just somewhere else for some reason, but they have certainly "vanished" from my area.

 

[Gravey]

That would be very frustrating. Hang in there. Hope it picks up.

 

[Andy S.]

That stinks, and I hate it for you.

Don't lose sight of my previous post in your previous thread "Where are my birds".

".......a buddy of mine that hunts Hickman county has some of the strangest birds I've ever seen, and he has been hunting them for the last 25+ years. It seems there is no reliable indicator as to what his farm will produce each spring. Some years he sees no turkeys while deer hunting, but has plenty of gobbling turkeys (both old birds and jakes) come spring, some years he sees several flocks of hens and long beards from the deer stand and then nothing come spring. I'm sure they range shift all over those hills and it is just happenstance if they end up on his land."

 

[Bgoodman30]

I'm right there with you bud..

Not a turkey sound yet this morning.

I took four days off and it helped a little..


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[gobblinfool]

The area I normally hunt has 100 birds or so, not this year, normally I am hunting satellite toms....not this year. I lucked out and got permission to hunt the main farm for 10 days and killed two birds. The farmer keeps telling me that they will be back, and I believe him.....everyday after school I drive around looking/hoping that they have shown back up. Years like this make me grateful for all the rest.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Not a turkey sound yet this morning.

Heard one turkey gobble one time...that was it. On a day like this, just plain boggles my mind.

 

[megalomaniac]

you can hunt what isn't there, but that does get frustrating for sure. But you sure as heck cannot kill what isn't there. What you are describing is exactly what is happening across the state (except for the few southern counties where all birds died out in a very short time). You will not have any birds the next several years either (unless something drastic changes with either state regulations or we get another 4 poult/ hen hatch year this year). Last years hatch was abysmal in most of the state (perhaps the worst we've ever had). NOW is the time to start looking for a place to hunt next year. Spend some time on the roads about 25 to 30 miles from where you have been hunting. There are still multiple locations covered up in birds, just need to get access to those places for next year. But now is the time to find them, you won't have any idea if properties are holding nesting spring birds if you do your scouting for land this fall/ winter.

My experience is becoming more typical... My main turkey hunting farm is 1000 acres. It was perhaps the single best turkey hunting location east of the MS during the late 90's. Fall flocks of 300 were the norm, and I typically called 25-30 birds into gun range each spring (the limit was 2 back then, so I just called them to 20 yards, and only shot birds that had 1.25in spurs or better). I was a terrible hunter, but even a blind squirrel could find a nut on that place. The population started to steadily decline around 2002 or so. Each year, I would identify how many gobblers were on the property, and shut all hunting down after half were killed. Over the next few years, it went from 20 gobblers, then down to 14, then down to 10, then down to 5, then down to just 1 or 2, and I ceased hunting the property. I still had birds 3 or 4 years after the neighbors killed all of theirs, but I just couldn't save them all. I drove by that place a few times this season, and never saw a single bird anywhere on the property. I did hear a single bird gobble last Nov during deer season on the roost, so maybe there is a small flock still holding on.

But, my other farms 20 miles away seem to have populations that have only slightly declined. Last year was great, as the hatch 3 years ago was phenominal, this year's population seems to be down around 25%, but the most concerning thing is the lack of adult hens. I know the writing is on the wall, the remaining few farms will have unhuntable populations in 3-5 years (again, unless something drastic changes that hasn't happened in over a decade- 4 poults/hen average this hatch). Because of that, I've started lining up other places in counties that have more birds for next year, and have even started looking for a long term turkey lease in south Texas.

 

[poorhunter]

you can hunt what isn't there, but that does get frustrating for sure. But you sure as heck cannot kill what isn't there. What you are describing is exactly what is happening across the state (except for the few southern counties where all birds died out in a very short time). You will not have any birds the next several years either (unless something drastic changes with either state regulations or we get another 4 poult/ hen hatch year this year). Last years hatch was abysmal in most of the state (perhaps the worst we've ever had). NOW is the time to start looking for a place to hunt next year. Spend some time on the roads about 25 to 30 miles from where you have been hunting. There are still multiple locations covered up in birds, just need to get access to those places for next year. But now is the time to find them, you won't have any idea if properties are holding nesting spring birds if you do your scouting for land this fall/ winter.

My experience is becoming more typical... My main turkey hunting farm is 1000 acres. It was perhaps the single best turkey hunting location east of the MS during the late 90's. Fall flocks of 300 were the norm, and I typically called 25-30 birds into gun range each spring (the limit was 2 back then, so I just called them to 20 yards, and only shot birds that had 1.25in spurs or better). I was a terrible hunter, but even a blind squirrel could find a nut on that place. The population started to steadily decline around 2002 or so. Each year, I would identify how many gobblers were on the property, and shut all hunting down after half were killed. Over the next few years, it went from 20 gobblers, then down to 14, then down to 10, then down to 5, then down to just 1 or 2, and I ceased hunting the property. I still had birds 3 or 4 years after the neighbors killed all of theirs, but I just couldn't save them all. I drove by that place a few times this season, and never saw a single bird anywhere on the property. I did hear a single bird gobble last Nov during deer season on the roost, so maybe there is a small flock still holding on.

But, my other farms 20 miles away seem to have populations that have only slightly declined. Last year was great, as the hatch 3 years ago was phenominal, this year's population seems to be down around 25%, but the most concerning thing is the lack of adult hens. I know the writing is on the wall, the remaining few farms will have unhuntable populations in 3-5 years (again, unless something drastic changes that hasn't happened in over a decade- 4 poults/hen average this hatch). Because of that, I've started lining up other places in counties that have more birds for next year, and have even started looking for a long term turkey lease in south Texas.

One of my main concerns is I've only seen hens a couple times and where I would usually see 10+ hens per sighting the norm has been one hen per sighting this year. Like I said before, there were turkeys here in the winter and the last 5 years all over. I wonder if th local winter flocks could have gotten killed off by someone piling corn out with aflatoxin.

 

[muddyboots]

It's not just you. I've been in 3 farms this morning. Any one of the 3 could be considered to be prime places. I haven't seen a turkey or heard one. I have no answer.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

I only hunted 8 times this year and I seen and heard a ton of birds in Maury and Hardin county

 

[catman529]

I saw a big wad of at least 7-8 toms most of them strutting, in someone's front yard this morning.


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[muddyboots]

Rock you have done well. Your the only person I've talked to in Hardin county that says that. Lol.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Rock you have done well. Your the only person I've talked to in Hardin county that says that. Lol.

Birds were very scattered this year, and all I'm the woods no field birds period.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

you can hunt what isn't there, but that does get frustrating for sure. But you sure as heck cannot kill what isn't there. What you are describing is exactly what is happening across the state (except for the few southern counties where all birds died out in a very short time). You will not have any birds the next several years either (unless something drastic changes with either state regulations or we get another 4 poult/ hen hatch year this year). Last years hatch was abysmal in most of the state (perhaps the worst we've ever had). NOW is the time to start looking for a place to hunt next year. Spend some time on the roads about 25 to 30 miles from where you have been hunting. There are still multiple locations covered up in birds, just need to get access to those places for next year. But now is the time to find them, you won't have any idea if properties are holding nesting spring birds if you do your scouting for land this fall/ winter.

My experience is becoming more typical... My main turkey hunting farm is 1000 acres. It was perhaps the single best turkey hunting location east of the MS during the late 90's. Fall flocks of 300 were the norm, and I typically called 25-30 birds into gun range each spring (the limit was 2 back then, so I just called them to 20 yards, and only shot birds that had 1.25in spurs or better). I was a terrible hunter, but even a blind squirrel could find a nut on that place. The population started to steadily decline around 2002 or so. Each year, I would identify how many gobblers were on the property, and shut all hunting down after half were killed. Over the next few years, it went from 20 gobblers, then down to 14, then down to 10, then down to 5, then down to just 1 or 2, and I ceased hunting the property. I still had birds 3 or 4 years after the neighbors killed all of theirs, but I just couldn't save them all. I drove by that place a few times this season, and never saw a single bird anywhere on the property. I did hear a single bird gobble last Nov during deer season on the roost, so maybe there is a small flock still holding on.

But, my other farms 20 miles away seem to have populations that have only slightly declined. Last year was great, as the hatch 3 years ago was phenominal, this year's population seems to be down around 25%, but the most concerning thing is the lack of adult hens. I know the writing is on the wall, the remaining few farms will have unhuntable populations in 3-5 years (again, unless something drastic changes that hasn't happened in over a decade- 4 poults/hen average this hatch). Because of that, I've started lining up other places in counties that have more birds for next year, and have even started looking for a long term turkey lease in south Texas.

I have a serious question for you. On your 1000 acre hunting property, you started limiting the number of toms you killed every spring to 1/2 the toms you saw, which, most likely was not even 1/2 the toms using the farm, but assume it was. Over 4-5 years the population on that farm continued to decline to 0-1 toms. Doesn't this scenario tell us its not the killing of toms that is the main factor of any population decline we are seeing, on your farm? At one point you left 10 toms and the next year there were fewer.


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[prstide]

I don't think anyone has ever said that it was killing toms that was the main factor. The issue is the nesting success of hens and being able to have poults survive. You factor that with the number of nest raiders along with spring rains/flooding this number has been very low for extended periods of time dependent upon the area.
Now you get to the killing of toms part. Not all hens are bred as soon as the season opens but you have a higher success rate of hunters due to methods that allow dominant(breeder) turkeys to be killed prior to breeding those hens. Not only can the dominant bird be killed but 3 others as well with our 4 bird limit. That leaves even more hens unbred and even the ones that are have such a low success rate of hatching poults it begins to take a toll. 10 to 40% of nests are successful depending upon area and then only 25% of the poults that hatch from those nests actually survive past the first four weeks.
None of this is even accounting for the predation of adult turkeys but it is a compounding issue that has caused the state population decline. Hopefully they will take steps towards fixing it soon or in some parts of the state we won't have huntable populations in the next 10 years. Lowering the bag limit on spring gobblers is just one of those steps that will be helpful in sustaining population growth.

 

[Spurhunter]

I threw in the towel yesterday. Foolishly burned another vacation day because the weather was supposed to be great. And it was. At daybreak there wasn't any wind at all. I could hear a long way. One bird gobbled 3 times on the roost a long way off on another property. Covered a lot of ground and never struck a bird. Time to fish. Not sure how to cook electronic tag soup but I'll try.

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[megalomaniac]

you can hunt what isn't there, but that does get frustrating for sure. But you sure as heck cannot kill what isn't there. What you are describing is exactly what is happening across the state (except for the few southern counties where all birds died out in a very short time). You will not have any birds the next several years either (unless something drastic changes with either state regulations or we get another 4 poult/ hen hatch year this year). Last years hatch was abysmal in most of the state (perhaps the worst we've ever had). NOW is the time to start looking for a place to hunt next year. Spend some time on the roads about 25 to 30 miles from where you have been hunting. There are still multiple locations covered up in birds, just need to get access to those places for next year. But now is the time to find them, you won't have any idea if properties are holding nesting spring birds if you do your scouting for land this fall/ winter.

My experience is becoming more typical... My main turkey hunting farm is 1000 acres. It was perhaps the single best turkey hunting location east of the MS during the late 90's. Fall flocks of 300 were the norm, and I typically called 25-30 birds into gun range each spring (the limit was 2 back then, so I just called them to 20 yards, and only shot birds that had 1.25in spurs or better). I was a terrible hunter, but even a blind squirrel could find a nut on that place. The population started to steadily decline around 2002 or so. Each year, I would identify how many gobblers were on the property, and shut all hunting down after half were killed. Over the next few years, it went from 20 gobblers, then down to 14, then down to 10, then down to 5, then down to just 1 or 2, and I ceased hunting the property. I still had birds 3 or 4 years after the neighbors killed all of theirs, but I just couldn't save them all. I drove by that place a few times this season, and never saw a single bird anywhere on the property. I did hear a single bird gobble last Nov during deer season on the roost, so maybe there is a small flock still holding on.

But, my other farms 20 miles away seem to have populations that have only slightly declined. Last year was great, as the hatch 3 years ago was phenominal, this year's population seems to be down around 25%, but the most concerning thing is the lack of adult hens. I know the writing is on the wall, the remaining few farms will have unhuntable populations in 3-5 years (again, unless something drastic changes that hasn't happened in over a decade- 4 poults/hen average this hatch). Because of that, I've started lining up other places in counties that have more birds for next year, and have even started looking for a long term turkey lease in south Texas.

I have a serious question for you. On your 1000 acre hunting property, you started limiting the number of toms you killed every spring to 1/2 the toms you saw, which, most likely was not even 1/2 the toms using the farm, but assume it was. Over 4-5 years the population on that farm continued to decline to 0-1 toms. Doesn't this scenario tell us its not the killing of toms that is the main factor of any population decline we are seeing, on your farm? At one point you left 10 toms and the next year there were fewer.


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you are exactly right. It is impossible to manage for turkeys long term under our current turkey season structure, and may be impossible to manage them even if the season structure is changed. I proved it is possible to hold onto turkeys a few years longer than surrounding properties who do not restrict the number of toms killed in the spring, but ultimately, probably because toms range so far after hens go to set, they still get killed away. 1000 acres just isn't large enough to manage adequately.

I think everyone is in agreement, the biggest reason for our decline in turkeys is the abysmal poult recruitment since the mid 2000's. Why did we go from 4 poults/ hen average for many years suddenly to 2 or fewer poults/ hen. It was probably just coincidence that poult recruitment fell through the floor at the same time the spring gobbler limit was raised to 4 birds. And don't get me wrong... I fully believe nest raiders and adult and poult predators are responsible for the majority of the decline. But I also STRONGLY believe that we are killing male birds before the majority of hens have been bred. I STRONGLY believe pushing opening back by 2 weeks will help (probably only a little, but will still help).

Let me ask you guys a question.... are you still seeing lone hens wandering around? If so, that means they haven't started setting and are still laying. Which means they initiated laying around mid April... which means they didn't first breed until a week or so before that. If the majority of hens are bred by season opener, nest initiation should be at the latest by April 7th, and all adult hens should be setting and not visible by April 21st.

 

[Bone Collector]

Same thing for me at my place, though I only have 32 acres, but the male birds have vanished.

I have seen one tom all season, and heard 3 gobbles total. one of those gobbles was yesterday on my brother's place.

I do see them on the way to work daily, but the big flocks have been absent since about the first couple of weeks of March. I guess they are in the woods.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

I don't think anyone has ever said that it was killing toms that was the main factor. The issue is the nesting success of hens and being able to have poults survive. You factor that with the number of nest raiders along with spring rains/flooding this number has been very low for extended periods of time dependent upon the area.
Now you get to the killing of toms part. Not all hens are bred as soon as the season opens but you have a higher success rate of hunters due to methods that allow dominant(breeder) turkeys to be killed prior to breeding those hens. Not only can the dominant bird be killed but 3 others as well with our 4 bird limit. That leaves even more hens unbred and even the ones that are have such a low success rate of hatching poults it begins to take a toll. 10 to 40% of nests are successful depending upon area and then only 25% of the poults that hatch from those nests actually survive past the first four weeks.
None of this is even accounting for the predation of adult turkeys but it is a compounding issue that has caused the state population decline. Hopefully they will take steps towards fixing it soon or in some parts of the state we won't have huntable populations in the next 10 years. Lowering the bag limit on spring gobblers is just one of those steps that will be helpful in sustaining population growth.

I have seen several posts saying that killing too many toms is the cause of the decline. I was asking someone that has a lot of credibility on this site to try and show that not killing toms does not seem to help. I say that to point out that nesting is the most critical time for turkey population. Sure, if hens aren't bred then nesting is of no concern, but how many farms have all the toms killed in the first 2 weeks? There are many things that will make small differences in the population but the one place to make the biggest significance we can make is protecting nests and helping polts survive.


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[poorhunter]

I don't think anyone has ever said that it was killing toms that was the main factor. The issue is the nesting success of hens and being able to have poults survive. You factor that with the number of nest raiders along with spring rains/flooding this number has been very low for extended periods of time dependent upon the area.
Now you get to the killing of toms part. Not all hens are bred as soon as the season opens but you have a higher success rate of hunters due to methods that allow dominant(breeder) turkeys to be killed prior to breeding those hens. Not only can the dominant bird be killed but 3 others as well with our 4 bird limit. That leaves even more hens unbred and even the ones that are have such a low success rate of hatching poults it begins to take a toll. 10 to 40% of nests are successful depending upon area and then only 25% of the poults that hatch from those nests actually survive past the first four weeks.
None of this is even accounting for the predation of adult turkeys but it is a compounding issue that has caused the state population decline. Hopefully they will take steps towards fixing it soon or in some parts of the state we won't have huntable populations in the next 10 years. Lowering the bag limit on spring gobblers is just one of those steps that will be helpful in sustaining population growth.

I have seen several posts saying that killing too many toms is the cause of the decline. I was asking someone that has a lot of credibility on this site to try and show that not killing toms does not seem to help. I say that to point out that nesting is the most critical time for turkey population. Sure, if hens aren't bred then nesting is of no concern, but how many farms have all the toms killed in the first 2 weeks? There are many things that will make small differences in the population but the one place to make the biggest significance we can make is protecting nests and helping polts survive.


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Egg and poult survival is of utmost importance to turkey populations. Killing every tom in an area will cause there to be no survival of eggs or poults. Traditionally, predators are by far more of a hazard than hunters. The concern that I'm reading from Andy and Setterman in particular is that the explosive use of strutter decoys in the last 5-7 years has made the killing of "unkillable" field birds easy. The rest of the toms that are left are the ones which are much easier to call in and kill. The cumulative effect of this year by year is the reduced actual breeding going on...hens that don't breed won't have any poults. Is this scenario true? I don't know myself, but it is possible.

As for my farms, I have no explanation to the sudden decline in the population. Plenty of turkeys all over last year and this winter, none now.