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i wonder if this will affect records

Omega said:
I don't think so, if the only difference is DNA how the heck would you be able to sort them out, DNA test them all?
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Yes. I wonder what politics that led to this split

What does this mean for states like Tennessee that have native northern strain largemouth but have stocked Florida strain bass- would a hybrid be recognized as a record in either category?
 
All good questions... and there are many situations where TWRA officials must already do DNA testing before certifying state records. And in fact, they have created separate records for our native northern spotted bass and the introduced Alabama spotted bass.

www.tn.gov

Tennessee Fishing Records & Awards

Check out some record-setting fish plus discover the awards TWRA sponsors for your first fish and the Tennessee Angler Recognition Program.
www.tn.gov www.tn.gov
 
rsimms said:
All good questions... and there are many situations where TWRA officials must already do DNA testing before certifying state records. And in fact, they have created separate records for our native northern spotted bass and the introduced Alabama spotted bass.

www.tn.gov

Tennessee Fishing Records & Awards

Check out some record-setting fish plus discover the awards TWRA sponsors for your first fish and the Tennessee Angler Recognition Program.
www.tn.gov www.tn.gov
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Right, but none of that affects past records right? Or do they now try and get samples of previous records?
 
Omega said:
Right, but none of that affects past records right? Or do they now try and get samples of previous records?
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I doubt it would be possible to get DNA for past records. And I cannot remember if they separated northern spots from Alabama spots before the current Alabama spot record was caught or not? I've reached out to TWRA for input on the question at hand.
 
Let's not forget the Florida / Texas hybrid that has been stocked into ponds and private lakes all over Tennessee and Kentucky. These grow fast, eat a lot, fight like a smallie and look just like most other large mouth bass.
Y'all know all those ponds and private lakes overflow into streams leading to Tennessee lakes right? No need to start threading needles now.

A bass is a bass is a bass
 
Popcorn said:
Let's not forget the Florida / Texas hybrid that has been stocked into ponds and private lakes all over Tennessee and Kentucky. These grow fast, eat a lot, fight like a smallie and look just like most other large mouth bass.
Y'all know all those ponds and private lakes overflow into streams leading to Tennessee lakes right? No need to start threading needles now.

A bass is a bass is a bass
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the florida and f1 strain has been such a concern with Ky that adam martin is doing a huge sampling project to determine if any of the northern LMB has florida strain dna.
 
rsimms said:
All good questions... and there are many situations where TWRA officials must already do DNA testing before certifying state records. And in fact, they have created separate records for our native northern spotted bass and the introduced Alabama spotted bass.

www.tn.gov

Tennessee Fishing Records & Awards

Check out some record-setting fish plus discover the awards TWRA sponsors for your first fish and the Tennessee Angler Recognition Program.
www.tn.gov www.tn.gov
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IMG_0788.webp

Here's a picture of the state record goldfish caught from Douglas.
Goldfish are not carp.
 
rsimms said:
Here's where this issue stands, TWRA Fisheries Chief Jason Henegar says that, indeed, they will need to "rethink" how they will handle state record largemouth bass in the future. Details here: https://newschannel9.com/sports/outdoors/there-is-a-new-bass-in-town
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yeah that was my thinking hence the reason i posted this thread. seems to me there should be two categories for LMB records if they are two seperate species.

west ky biologist adam martin appears to be concerned if florida or f1 strain starts showing up in ky lake. so far all dna tests in the project have been negative.
 
WTM said:
west ky biologist adam martin appears to be concerned if florida or f1 strain starts showing up in ky lake. so far all dna tests in the project have been negative.
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Yea, I discussed that with TWRA Nashville folks yesterday. They said their sample size for DNA tests in Kentucky Lake have been relatively small so far. So in the grand scheme of things, they weren't overly concerned about the results so far.

It's been nine years stocking KY with Florida-strain. And Kentucky Lake is LOTS bigger than the Chick.

I can't remember details but I know in Chickamauga they were still getting relatively poor results on DNA samples ten years into the stockings (2010). There was actually talk then of whether or not they should continue the stockings, but they did.

It was over the next five years or so that the F1's started showing up in good numbers, including the new state record caught in 2015, 15 years after stocking began. TWRA biologists estimated that fish (an F1 hybrid) to be 11-12 years old, a result of the 2003 or 2004 spawn. Folks I talked to yesterday said they felt reasonably sure they would continue the stockings for at least 15 years.
 
From a purely IGFA/record books stance, would Tennessee have to vacate their current record bass if it was a Florida x northern cross as it is no longer a mix of subspecies but a true hybrid of species?
 
rsimms said:
Yea, I discussed that with TWRA Nashville folks yesterday. They said their sample size for DNA tests in Kentucky Lake have been relatively small so far. So in the grand scheme of things, they weren't overly concerned about the results so far.

It's been nine years stocking KY with Florida-strain. And Kentucky Lake is LOTS bigger than the Chick.

I can't remember details but I know in Chickamauga they were still getting relatively poor results on DNA samples ten years into the stockings (2010). There was actually talk then of whether or not they should continue the stockings, but they did.

It was over the next five years or so that the F1's started showing up in good numbers, including the new state record caught in 2015, 15 years after stocking began. TWRA biologists estimated that fish (an F1 hybrid) to be 11-12 years old, a result of the 2003 or 2004 spawn. Folks I talked to yesterday said they felt reasonably sure they would continue the stockings for at least 15 years.
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pretty much will have to. the amount they stock from jville to paris landing is pretty much a drop in a bucket. i remember a couple of years ago that adam calculated that it would take 17 million fingerlings to make a difference.

ky is running samples because of the research where floridas or f1 hybrids can actually grow slower above the HDD line, which would be anything above sulfur creek or bass bay jn TN.
 
MickThompson said:
From a purely IGFA/record books stance, would Tennessee have to vacate their current record bass if it was a Florida x northern cross as it is no longer a mix of subspecies but a true hybrid of species?
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No, I don't see any scenario where it would be vacated. It's just a matter of whether or not they will recognize both species (and/or the hybrid cross). If I were going to bet money on it, I'd bet they will establish two record classes... true Northern largemouth and any Florida (or hybrid) cross (since that what they did with Northern spots and Alabama spots). But right now it's anybody's guess.
 

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