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Just a thought

timberjack86

timberjack86

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If our turkey population is suffering in so many counties why doesn't the state allow night time predator hunting? That would probably put a big dent in the predator population and help a few more hens raise some poults. Just a thought I had and wanted to share.
 
timberjack86":26yusbkn said:
If our turkey population is suffering in so many counties why doesn't the state allow night time predator hunting? That would probably put a big dent in the predator population and help a few more hens raise some poults. Just a thought I had and wanted to share.
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Because it doesn't matter if predators aren't a significant factor in the decline
AND
No one knows why they are in decline
 
If they won't address the problem simply and directly by postponing opening dates, lowering limits, or protecting hens, addressing it indirectly by allowing night time coyote hunting probably doesn't register on the state's radar. Also it's debatable how much killing a few more coyotes would actually help turkey numbers. Killing a lot of them just before nesting season would obviously help short term in the immediate area, but big picture it's not so clear.
 
MickThompson":xldt7j2c said:
timberjack86":xldt7j2c said:
If our turkey population is suffering in so many counties why doesn't the state allow night time predator hunting? That would probably put a big dent in the predator population and help a few more hens raise some poults. Just a thought I had and wanted to share.
Click to expand...

Because it doesn't matter if predators aren't a significant factor in the decline
AND
No one knows why they are in decline
Click to expand...
Your telling me it wouldn't make a difference killing extra nest predators? I'm not saying there the reason for the decline. But there's no way taking out extra coyotes, bobcats,coons and other nest predators won't help a few poults survive this spring.Seems to me no matter how small it's a step in the right direction for the birds we love to hunt.
 
What I'm saying is this- these birds are being studied all over the southeast right now and nobody knows what's wrong. In ecology you have a concept called compensatory mortality- basically there are the surplus animals that can be taken by hunters because a certain percentage of the population will die every year. As long as harvest remains within this compensatory range, the population will not decline as a result of hunting.

If we are in a period of increased natural mortality can we "save" turkeys by killing fewer? Maybe, or maybe not- if it's compensatory, they'll find another way to die. Natural systems are complicated. There are rarely clear cut answers and usually when there is one there's little that can be done about it (flooding impacting turkeys in west TN for example).

Would putting new tires on a car matter if it's out of gas? If turkeys aren't limited by predation, but instead a suite of diseases, killing all the predators would make us feel like we had done something while the population continues to decline.
 
timberjack86":31oi7vbr said:
MickThompson":31oi7vbr said:
timberjack86":31oi7vbr said:
If our turkey population is suffering in so many counties why doesn't the state allow night time predator hunting? That would probably put a big dent in the predator population and help a few more hens raise some poults. Just a thought I had and wanted to share.
Click to expand...

Because it doesn't matter if predators aren't a significant factor in the decline
AND
No one knows why they are in decline
Click to expand...
Your telling me it wouldn't make a difference killing extra nest predators? I'm not saying there the reason for the decline. But there's no way taking out extra coyotes, bobcats,coons and other nest predators won't help a few poults survive this spring.Seems to me no matter how small it's a step in the right direction for the birds we love to hunt.
Click to expand...

I think if you really hammered smaller nest predators (skunks, coons, possums, armadillos), you might do a lot of good for turkeys. But there is a fair amount of research showing that killing coyotes actually results in an increase in coyote numbers in short order. Something about pack dispersal and breeding habits. Diligent trapping (which can take out a big chunk of coyotes in an area) can make a difference, but shooting them likely produces negligible or even negative results.
 
There's way more to it than just shooting coyotes. Lots of research out there like southern sportsman says. Some how the females ovulate more to produce more young when populations are lower.
If we killed all the coyotes I'm sure there would be an increase in Possums and maybe coons and foxes. Because they wouldn't be preyed upon as much and there would also be more food to go around for them.
Kill all the hawks and owls then their would be an increase in rat snakes that eat turkey eggs and increase in rattlesnakes that eat poults.

I'm all for predator control, especially the trapping of coons, possums, and skunks. But I think the only way you do much good with it is really trap these animals hard before nesting season, before more have time to move in or before some of the younger ones learn how to find nest.

Best thing that anyone could do, if they have land to do it on, is to improve habitat along with some nest predator control.


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From my understanding, predator control is not cut and dry, turkey populations are not dependent on predators and habitat is more crucial than practically anything (assuming we are good stewards).

So, If habitat is sufficient and predators are of little concern then we have a unknown. Right?


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Like I said it's just a thought that would be a positive for the turkeys in my opinion. It would probably benefit someone with some private property more than it would me hunting public.
 
Raccoons are of much greater concern to turkeys than coyotes ever dreamt of being. Good luck getting a spring/summer night season on them- they're furbearers and a popular game animal.
 
MickThompson":2sv1ispn said:
Raccoons are of much greater concern to turkeys than coyotes ever dreamt of being. Good luck getting a spring/summer night season on them- they're furbearers and a popular game animal.
Click to expand...

Agree with you 100% about coons, alot bigger threat to turkey eggs than yotes are to turkeys.
 
AT Hiker":3iie42di said:
From my understanding, predator control is not cut and dry, turkey populations are not dependent on predators and habitat is more crucial than practically anything (assuming we are good stewards).

So, If habitat is sufficient and predators are of little concern then we have a unknown. Right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yes we do.
 
It's illegal to hunt humans day or night. That's where this problem begins and ends. Predators have been here forever. Decoys, long range shooting etc are the new variable. Yet we've done nothing to adjust for the improved killing methods and watched populations decline
 
Maybe because predators are only a small part of the problem and it's hard to apprehend deer poachers if people are out shining lights everywhere with 22 mags at night. Coon hunting is legal at night and trapping is legal. As far as I can tell, trapping is the most effective way to knock back predators.


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MickThompson":35ecyubi said:
Raccoons are of much greater concern to turkeys than coyotes ever dreamt of being. Good luck getting a spring/summer night season on them- they're furbearers and a popular game animal.
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If I'm not mistaken raccoon season opens in July. I agree 100 percent. Raccoons need to thinned out alittle.The fur market has been down a few years and judging by the amount of roadkill raccoons the raccoon population is increasing as the turkey population decreases.
 

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