Turkeys breeding

[Roost 1]

For the last couple years, after season, people report that the birds were breeding in their area in late FEB or early March and report sightings of poults before season is over. So, I'll ask now, who is seeing breeding at this time??

 

[catman529]

Haha I ain't even seeing turkeys lately, I know they're bunched up in the woods nearby though. Wouldn't surprise me if a couple ambitious gobblers tried to breed this early. I bet they can't wait


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[Dover_Mike]

Not me. Still bunched up

 

[megalomaniac]

Looking at wild turkeys every day in the backyard. Usually here in south Mississippi, birds start breeding in early March, and hens start laying mid March, and my birds haven started yet.

I will say this... they are getting very, very close. Hens are definitely talking a lot more, and the gobblers are drumming for the first time in months (they strut year-round since they are penned up with the hens year round). I'm expecting my first eggs in 2-3 weeks.

In Tennessee, the VAST majority of turkeys won't start actually breeding until around April 7th or so, and mature hens won't start laying until April 14th. (Yes, there will always be a handful of exceptions that start early or late depending on genetic variation and conditioning).

Hours of daylight actually affects testis size in male poultry and ovulation in female poultry.

 

[catman529]

Good info megalomaniac. First time I saw turkeys breeding was 3 days before season while patterning my gun 3 years ago. I think the season opened at the end of March that year so it was late March breeding. There were 3 or 4 hens with 6 or 7 gobblers and one of em was on top of a hen when I walked up. Holding a shotgun and turkey shells was actually slightly tempting, but knowing it wasn't season and I couldn't hunt there, I went on to kill a few sheets of paper instead.


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[elknturkey]

They will start beginning of March. A lot of breeding occurs when they are in the big flocks. The flocks breaking up is a sign birds are heading to their nesting grounds. Hens can store the sperm for 30 days. They don't need to start laying a day or two after being bred. I would bet over half are bred before the opener. This is what I have seen over many years following birds. I was literally in the woods everyday starting the last week of Feb till the opener in Virginia which is a little behind Tenn especially from Knoxville and furthest west. I watched a gobbler breed 4 hens on March 4th one year at over 4000ft in elevation and temps in the 20s

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[megalomaniac]

They will start beginning of March. A lot of breeding occurs when they are in the big flocks. The flocks breaking up is a sign birds are heading to their nesting grounds. Hens can store the sperm for 30 days. They don't need to start laying a day or two after being bred. I would bet over half are bred before the opener. This is what I have seen over many years following birds. I was literally in the woods everyday starting the last week of Feb till the opener in Virginia which is a little behind Tenn especially from Knoxville and furthest west. I watched a gobbler breed 4 hens on March 4th one year at over 4000ft in elevation and temps in the 20s

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For those of you out there who do not understand turkey reproduction, please ignore this entire post.... it is so full of misinformation and wrong information that it should be deleted.

 

[elknturkey]

They will start beginning of March. A lot of breeding occurs when they are in the big flocks. The flocks breaking up is a sign birds are heading to their nesting grounds. Hens can store the sperm for 30 days. They don't need to start laying a day or two after being bred. I would bet over half are bred before the opener. This is what I have seen over many years following birds. I was literally in the woods everyday starting the last week of Feb till the opener in Virginia which is a little behind Tenn especially from Knoxville and furthest west. I watched a gobbler breed 4 hens on March 4th one year at over 4000ft in elevation and temps in the 20s

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For those of you out there who do not understand turkey reproduction, please ignore this entire post.... it is so full of misinformation and wrong information that it should be deleted.

So my eyes are lying? Gotcha. So let's do some math. Poults start hatching toward the end of the season with the bulk coming around the end of May. It takes approximately 14 days to lay a clutch then another 28 days to sit. Plus they don't run right off the minute she's bred and drop an egg. That's 6 weeks not counting the time frame being bred to dropping first egg. That puts the bulk starting to lay before mid April. Older hens start first then the jennies. So technically yes bulk are bred before the season opens. Weather can have an effect but only a few weeks. So please Mr biologist enlighten me. Also they can store sperm for 50 days not 30. If the nest gets broken up they more than likely do not have to breed again

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[Roost 1]

This was the exact point of this thread.... op:

 

[catman529]

This was the exact point of this thread.... op:

lol mission accomplished


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[megalomaniac]

They will start beginning of March. A lot of breeding occurs when they are in the big flocks. The flocks breaking up is a sign birds are heading to their nesting grounds. Hens can store the sperm for 30 days. They don't need to start laying a day or two after being bred. I would bet over half are bred before the opener. This is what I have seen over many years following birds. I was literally in the woods everyday starting the last week of Feb till the opener in Virginia which is a little behind Tenn especially from Knoxville and furthest west. I watched a gobbler breed 4 hens on March 4th one year at over 4000ft in elevation and temps in the 20s

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For those of you out there who do not understand turkey reproduction, please ignore this entire post.... it is so full of misinformation and wrong information that it should be deleted.

So my eyes are lying? Gotcha. So let's do some math. Poults start hatching toward the end of the season with the bulk coming around the end of May. It takes approximately 14 days to lay a clutch then another 28 days to sit. Plus they don't run right off the minute she's bred and drop an egg. That's 6 weeks not counting the time frame being bred to dropping first egg. That puts the bulk starting to lay before mid April. Older hens start first then the jennies. So technically yes bulk are bred before the season opens. Weather can have an effect but only a few weeks. So please Mr biologist enlighten me. Also they can store sperm for 50 days not 30. If the nest gets broken up they more than likely do not have to breed again

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Ok, I'll play ball...

So my eyes are lying? Gotcha.

Probably not... But what you observed as breeding was probably not actually successful fertilization for the episodes you observed. A combination of decreased fertility in males due to smaller testis size in the winter, combined with anovulation in the hens will generally preclude mutual mating. A few toms will try to mate hens not ready to ovulate (and fewer hens will allow the mating to occur), but the vast majority of animals (turkeys included) don't mate for emotional connection or enjoyment like humans.

So let's do some math. Poults start hatching toward the end of the season with the bulk coming around the end of May. It takes approximately 14 days to lay a clutch then another 28 days to sit. Plus they don't run right off the minute she's bred and drop an egg. That's 6 weeks not counting the time frame being bred to dropping first egg. That puts the bulk starting to lay before mid April.

Oh, I LOVE math! I agree with you that the majority of poults start hatching at the end of May. So... 26-28th of May hatch date minus 28 days for incubation is around April 28-30 that hens start setting. I also agree with you that it takes approximately 14 days from the time clutch initiation starts till the hen starts setting... so around April 14-16th the hens start laying. Where we differ in our timelines is the timing between successful fertilization and initiation of oviposition. While turkey eggs have been successfully fertilized up to 70 days after a single mating (not 50 days as you stated), that is EXTREMEY rare. Natural successful fertilization declines rapidly after 7 days of mating (which is why commercial turkey breeders repeat artificial insemination weekly to maximize fertility). The Lutenizing hormone surge in hens during follicle development stimulates them to seek out a mate not weeks before egg deposition, but days... So... lets figure around 7 days prior to nest initiation that hens allow successful mating.... that equates to April 7-9th of initial successful breeding/fertilization.

Older hens start first then the jennies.

Yes, assuming the jennies breed/lay at all... the majority of which do not.

So technically yes bulk are bred before the season opens.

Only if you erroneously assume that turkeys are breeding for fun and games a month before ovulation occurs. Which just doesn't happen. Sure there are a HANDFUL of 'genetic anomalies' that successfully mate and fertilize a clutch early March, then initiate nests in mid March... but the VAST majority of the hatching poults will not survive hatching that early due to the cold spring rains.

Weather can have an effect but only a few weeks.

Agree completely.... so why did you mention seeing breeding occurring in 20 degree weather in you initial post? Did that surprise you? Sure, extreme winters can negatively affect the condition of birds entering spring breeding season, and therefore delay onset of breeding/ fertilization/ nest initiation/ setting/ and hatching... but well conditioned birds time their breeding based on photoperiodism, not temperatures.

So please Mr biologist enlighten me.

I hope I have done so

Also they can store sperm for 50 days not 30.

Again, it CAN be up to 70 days. But that is the very, very, very rare exception. Fertility begins to decline RAPIDLY 7 days after a successful mating.

If the nest gets broken up they more than likely do not have to breed again

The 'more than likely' is what kills this statement. While it is 'possible' that hens can successfully renest a fertile 2nd clutch 4-6 weeks after an initial successful mating, the majority of hens will need to be remated after losing the initial nest if they are to have 12-14 fertile eggs in a second clutch.

 

[Roost 1]

Very informative post, Meglo...Thanks

 

[elknturkey]

They will start beginning of March. A lot of breeding occurs when they are in the big flocks. The flocks breaking up is a sign birds are heading to their nesting grounds. Hens can store the sperm for 30 days. They don't need to start laying a day or two after being bred. I would bet over half are bred before the opener. This is what I have seen over many years following birds. I was literally in the woods everyday starting the last week of Feb till the opener in Virginia which is a little behind Tenn especially from Knoxville and furthest west. I watched a gobbler breed 4 hens on March 4th one year at over 4000ft in elevation and temps in the 20s

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Sounds pretty spot on to me Been living and turkey hunting here in the SE Tennessee mountains for going on 11 years. I've witnessed "wild' eastern turkeys breed as early as this week in February on a few occasions. Last year I watched a gobbler breed two hens on Feb. 28th in my upper pasture here around the house (McMinn county). Three years ago, up on the mountain in South Cherokee, I witnessed a gobbler breed a hen in the middle of a forest road in front of me right at the end of February.(Monroe County) Rare exceptions of extremely early hens that end up not taking, I'm sure, but it still happens. I too believe that a good percentage of hens are bred throughout March, while turkeys are still bunched up, well before and leading up to the Tn. opener. This to I have seen with my own eyes. I have also witnessed the same thing in at least two other states in which I have spent many years turkey hunting, my home state of Florida and Georgia. This being a high percentage of hens being bred before the state openers. Had two mature hens with at least 2 day old poults around the house last year on May 9th for the record.

We are very close to the same area so that's good to know I wasn't going blind lol

Megalomaniac we really aren't disagreeing except a little on the timelines. I know the timelines can vary even in the same state. Game commissions try to set their dates to where half the hens are done bred by opening day. At least in the states I've studied. West Virginia didn't open till well after the majority had been bred but I believe they did move their opening date back a week or 2. If Virginia would move the opening day from the second Saturday in April to the 3rd Saturday in March there would be a nice increase in harvest. Birds are busting up during that time and there's some hot gobbling days in the frenzy till everything gets sorted out.

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[elknturkey]

Here's studies conducted by Pennsylvania and Georgia

 

[String Music]

Meglo getting all scientific...and I likes it! Good info!

I saw several flocks of turkeys on our place in the mountains last week. The majority of the gobblers were still flocked together without hens. I may have seen one or two small mixed flocks but they got out of Dodge quickly and I couldn't tell if it was jakes or hens with the gobblers.

 

[Gravey]

Very informative post, Meglo...Thanks

Yep and now I've gotta go look a few words up. :lol:

 

[Bone Collector]

They'll break up here in mid tn in the next week or so. They are still bunched up, but I'm starting to see the large flocks split up. I'd guess within the next week you'll see toms strutting with hens in certain areas.

I don't know if they will breed or not.

 

[Benbocat1]

Good stuff in this thread, but let me cut to the bottom line. For those of you in Middle and East Tennessee, what weeks during the season do you generally call in and kill the most gobblers?

 

[baddnole]

This is a lot of good info for a beginner. First time Turkey hunting this year, along with my grandson. :tu: I have had a lot of Turkeys on my farm for the last 9 years,but never hunted or disturbed them. Should be fun with the youngun.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Breeding??? I seen poults the other day! :bash: :stir: oke: