Understanding wind and terrain features

[Ladys man]

Probably my weakest subject in the hunting aspect, I know there's a bunch of this on YouTube and I have watched a bunch but how does it effect the deer movement.
Kind of a vague statement but I'd anyone could help with this I'd appreciate it.

 

[AT Hiker]

Learn the basics of thermals. For example; they rise in the morning and fall in the evening.

 

[megalomaniac]

Someone made an EXCELLENT post on prevailing winds, thermals, lee/eddy currents in hilly terrain last year. Maybe they could bump their post back up from last year. Very good understanding of how wind currents behave in hilly terrain...

WAY better than me.... unfortunately, I'm only as good as set a ladder where I think I can take advantage of the wind based on my poor understanding of currents, then actually hunt it and have a ton of success or have every deer in the county smell me. If it's a good spot I leave the stand, if it's terrible, I move it and start all over.

Often times it takes me 4 or 5 sits to figure out whether my new favorite stand location is going to pan out or not.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Take some milkweed with you and just watch to see. You will find in the mountains that there is no good wind direction but you can rely on thermals.

 

[Ladys man]

Take some milkweed with you and just watch to see. You will find in the mountains that there is no good wind direction but you can rely on thermals.

So is it best to go by the old saying of high in the morning and low in the evening?
I'm just curious to know if I have a steady wind and trying to hunt a saddle will the wind direction effect how the deer use it or do the thermals impact that more than a steady wind? That's just an example of trying to hunt key terrain features.

 

[Pilchard]

Someone made an EXCELLENT post on prevailing winds, thermals, lee/eddy currents in hilly terrain last year. Maybe they could bump their post back up from last year. Very good understanding of how wind currents behave in hilly terrain...

WAY better than me.... unfortunately, I'm only as good as set a ladder where I think I can take advantage of the wind based on my poor understanding of currents, then actually hunt it and have a ton of success or have every deer in the county smell me. If it's a good spot I leave the stand, if it's terrible, I move it and start all over.

Often times it takes me 4 or 5 sits to figure out whether my new favorite stand location is going to pan out or not.

This was ski. I've read it 2 dozen times since he wrote it. Like a trout stream….

 

[Ladys man]

This was ski. I've read it 2 dozen times since he wrote it. Like a trout stream….

Thanks Pilchard, I'll try to look it up.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

So is it best to go by the old saying of high in the morning and low in the evening?
I'm just curious to know if I have a steady wind and trying to hunt a saddle will the wind direction effect how the deer use it or do the thermals impact that more than a steady wind? That's just an example of trying to hunt key terrain features.

That's the general rule. But you won't see a thermal rise until it warms up in the morning. So generally your scent is still sinking for a few hours in the stand of a morning. And generally rising still earlier of a evening. This is why it's not possible to hunt a certain wind direction in the mountains 95% of the time.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

https://www.tndeer.com/threads/wind-speed-and-deer-activity.408723/

 

[AT Hiker]

So is it best to go by the old saying of high in the morning and low in the evening?
I'm just curious to know if I have a steady wind and trying to hunt a saddle will the wind direction effect how the deer use it or do the thermals impact that more than a steady wind? That's just an example of trying to hunt key terrain features.

Hunting out West really opened my eyes on thermals. You could never predict the wind. It would be blowing in your face, you would walk 1/4 mile, cross a ditch and make your way up another ridge only for the wind to switch and be hitting you in the back. Thermals were the only thing that stayed consistent and the deer/elk knew that too.

A good way to think about thermals is on a evening hunt. Temp feels good, hasn't changed much through the day. All of a sudden you feel that cold air coming in, closer to dark the cooler it gets. During that time those thermals are dropping down and during that time is usually peak deer movement.

 

[poorhunter]

I totally can not figure out wind in the hills and hollers I hunt. No matter what I tried I would get busted. I gave up and just stuck with using thermals.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Hunting out West really opened my eyes on thermals. You could never predict the wind. It would be blowing in your face, you would walk 1/4 mile, cross a ditch and make your way up another ridge only for the wind to switch and be hitting you in the back. Thermals were the only thing that stayed consistent and the deer/elk knew that too.

A good way to think about thermals is on a evening hunt. Temp feels good, hasn't changed much through the day. All of a sudden you feel that cold air coming in, closer to dark the cooler it gets. During that time those thermals are dropping down and during that time is usually peak deer movement.

Western hunting really will open your eyes. Heck, you don't have to go 1/4 mile. I was chasing a bull a couple years ago. I was on top of a ridge out in the sage in the sun. Ridge ran straight out in front of me with a steady 15-20 mph wind in my face. A bull fired up down to my left about 100 yards. I started pursuing to cut the distance. As soon as I got to the timber (about 20 yards off the top of the ridge) and in the shade, the thermals were pulling the exact opposite direction and straight toward him (down the ridge and not up the ridge). I backed out and tried several different ways to get down there to no avail. I didn't want to risk blowing him out of there.

Last year out west, you could be on the side of a mountain…if you were in the sun, thermals were rushing up hill - and fast. Jump into the timber and they were rushing down - and fast…just 20 yards away. To the equivalent of 10 mph wind.

So here in TN, remember that those S facing slopes will tend to heat up faster and thermals pull up earlier, whereas the N facing slopes will tend to pull down longer into the morning due to being shaded

 

[Ski]

I totally can not figure out wind in the hills and hollers I hunt. No matter what I tried I would get busted. I gave up and just stuck with using thermals.

It can be tricky for sure. I've always found that wind and thermals are inseparable. They both play such a role in how the air moves that it often feels like the earth is breathing. Wind in face then 10 seconds later wind is at my back. The idea of thermals is simple as in warm air rises & cool air sinks. But in hills & hollers you often find both up & down thermals flowing simultaneously depending on where you stand. As the sun comes up and begins warming the earth, it doesn't happen unilaterally across the landscape. Until noon there will still be shaded areas not yet touched by the sun, and those spots will possibly still have downdraft thermals. At the very minimum they will be flowing at a slower rate than a spot getting full sun. And it changes constantly all day long as the sun circles the southern sky until setting in the west. Spots that were warm thermals at 9am might be cool thermals at 1pm, and likewise.

I suspect that's why older bucks are so finicky about where they'll bed. And big buck beds gets used generationally, probably over millennia. They are special spots that give a buck an advantage, not only for safety but for scent checking traveling does. In hill country does travel a whole lot further than they do in ag country. And I've noticed that older buck beds are often just above busy doe trails on the leeward side of a hill. I can only deduce that it's because that spot gives the buck an ability hear/smell danger approaching from behind, while simultaneously having visual of the doe trail below and daytime thermals bringing their scent up to him. There's no sneaking up on a buck in a bed like that.

 

[poorhunter]

It can be tricky for sure. I've always found that wind and thermals are inseparable. They both play such a role in how the air moves that it often feels like the earth is breathing. Wind in face then 10 seconds later wind is at my back. The idea of thermals is simple as in warm air rises & cool air sinks. But in hills & hollers you often find both up & down thermals flowing simultaneously depending on where you stand. As the sun comes up and begins warming the earth, it doesn't happen unilaterally across the landscape. Until noon there will still be shaded areas not yet touched by the sun, and those spots will possibly still have downdraft thermals. At the very minimum they will be flowing at a slower rate than a spot getting full sun. And it changes constantly all day long as the sun circles the southern sky until setting in the west. Spots that were warm thermals at 9am might be cool thermals at 1pm, and likewise.

I suspect that's why older bucks are so finicky about where they'll bed. And big buck beds gets used generationally, probably over millennia. They are special spots that give a buck an advantage, not only for safety but for scent checking traveling does. In hill country does travel a whole lot further than they do in ag country. And I've noticed that older buck beds are often just above busy doe trails on the leeward side of a hill. I can only deduce that it's because that spot gives the buck an ability hear/smell danger approaching from behind, while simultaneously having visual of the doe trail below and daytime thermals bringing their scent up to him. There's no sneaking up on a buck in a bed like that.

Which is why I kill does and small bucks! One day I'll luck into a good one, but it won't be because of skill

 

[Ski]

Which is why I kill does and small bucks! One day I'll luck into a good one, but it won't be because of skill

Something an older big buck killer told me once that really stuck with me, and in hindsight I have found that he was 100% correct. He said, "There's a difference between deer hunting and mature buck hunting. To kill big old bucks, you've got to hunt big old bucks."

 

[TRHC]

It can be tricky for sure. I've always found that wind and thermals are inseparable. They both play such a role in how the air moves that it often feels like the earth is breathing. Wind in face then 10 seconds later wind is at my back. The idea of thermals is simple as in warm air rises & cool air sinks. But in hills & hollers you often find both up & down thermals flowing simultaneously depending on where you stand. As the sun comes up and begins warming the earth, it doesn't happen unilaterally across the landscape. Until noon there will still be shaded areas not yet touched by the sun, and those spots will possibly still have downdraft thermals. At the very minimum they will be flowing at a slower rate than a spot getting full sun. And it changes constantly all day long as the sun circles the southern sky until setting in the west. Spots that were warm thermals at 9am might be cool thermals at 1pm, and likewise.

I suspect that's why older bucks are so finicky about where they'll bed. And big buck beds gets used generationally, probably over millennia. They are special spots that give a buck an advantage, not only for safety but for scent checking traveling does. In hill country does travel a whole lot further than they do in ag country. And I've noticed that older buck beds are often just above busy doe trails on the leeward side of a hill. I can only deduce that it's because that spot gives the buck an ability hear/smell danger approaching from behind, while simultaneously having visual of the doe trail below and daytime thermals bringing their scent up to him. There's no sneaking up on a buck in a bed like that.

Good description….can't tell you how many times I've walked out on a bluff and bumped a nice buck bedded down below. I'm sure many others can relate.

 

[DMD]

Here's what I've learned about the wind and hunting in the mountains of East Tennessee:

1. It will change direction 80 times a day
2. Don't hunt down in a holler. The winds swirl and do all kinds of weird things. I very rarely - and I mean rarely hunt in a holler. Just too unpredictable with the wind.
3. Hunt high - I just hate hunting on the ground. I can get away with much more, as far as wind movement, up high.
4. As mentioned - terrain affects all of this. Bluffs, tree lines, fields, hollers, etc all effect eddies - making it difficult to predict. That is why I like to hunt high.

Summary - I try to hunt the prevailing winds as much as is possible hunting deer in large tracts of timber, stay out of hollers, hunt high (18'-25'+ - sometimes this is not possible during bow season with the canopy), cloudy/overcast/humid days are really tough for scent as scent seems to just linger low, clear sunny high pressure days are the best. JMHO.

 

[BSK]

Here's what I've learned about the wind and hunting in the mountains of East Tennessee:

1. It will change direction 80 times a day
2. Don't hunt down in a holler. The winds swirl and do all kinds of weird things. I very rarely - and I mean rarely hunt in a holler. Just too unpredictable with the wind.
3. Hunt high - I just hate hunting on the ground. I can get away with much more, as far as wind movement, up high.
4. As mentioned - terrain affects all of this. Bluffs, tree lines, fields, hollers, etc all effect eddies - making it difficult to predict. That is why I like to hunt high.

Summary - I try to hunt the prevailing winds as much as is possible hunting deer in large tracts of timber, stay out of hollers, hunt high (18'-25'+ - sometimes this is not possible during bow season with the canopy), cloudy/overcast/humid days are really tough for scent as scent seems to just linger low, clear sunny high pressure days are the best. JMHO.

That's some good stuff.

I've had tough results hunting low, even though hunting low in the evenings can be a great tactic. As DMD pointed out, the winds swirl something terrible in the bottoms of valleys. I've seen some good bucks working their way up creeks in the evenings (into the prevailing downhill/downstream thermals), but I get busted more often than not.

 

[Ski]

That's some good stuff.

I've had tough results hunting low, even though hunting low in the evenings can be a great tactic. As DMD pointed out, the winds swirl something terrible in the bottoms of valleys. I've seen some good bucks working their way up creeks in the evenings (into the prevailing downhill/downstream thermals), but I get busted more often than not.

Safest place to be is above the downwind side of a hogback ridge crest. The closer you get to the creek in the bottom, the higher your chances get of getting busted. Unfortunately that's hardly ever the best place to hunt.

All a hunter can do is get as close to the best spot as he's comfortable and hope for the best. It's trial and error. If you're not busting out some deer sometimes then you're not close enough. And if you're busting them out all the time you're too close. There's a goldilocks zone that you can only find with persistence. Knowing how the moving air interfaces with the earth helps get you in the ballpark, but trial and error is the only way I know to pinpoint it.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

All a hunter can do is get as close to the best spot as he's comfortable and hope for the best. It's trial and error. If you're not busting out some deer sometimes then you're not close enough. And if you're busting them out all the time you're too close. There's a goldilocks zone that you can only find with persistence. Knowing how the moving air interfaces with the earth helps get you in the ballpark, but trial and error is the only way I know to pinpoint it.

Amen!