Why the spotty turkey decline?

[poorhunter]

I know we've talked about how there are places that have plenty of turkeys still, and others where there has been a drastic decline. Here's a thought...someone else in another thread mentioned that alflotixin positive corn has been shipped out of Texas (for instance) to Tennessee (for instance). So this truckload if tainted corn is sent to a Walmart somewhere (say Waynsboro) and every Tom Richard and Harry that ships there goes and buys this corn and puts it out for deer hunting. By the tunnel all this corn is gone there's no telling how many flocks have been decimated in that area. Same thing on a lesser scale may have happened in other areas. Corn is used so much in the last 10 years and there's bound to have been some tainted batches that folks put out. I personally think this is a very likely scenario that tainted corn is the major culprit in the localized population drops in spotty areas.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Seems very logical poorhunter

 

[megalomaniac]

I think that has certainly happened on occasion throughout the state, but isn't the cause for the major drop, IMO....

The biggest cause for the decline is that hens have simply quit rearing poults. Back in the 90's, it was rare for me to see a hen without poults. Now I'm only seeing 1 out of 10 hens who have successfully gotten hatched eggs out of the nest. I have no idea why... increased nest/ young poult predation, decreased fertility from removing males too early, decrease in safe nesting habitat, etc, etc are all possible reasons, but no one really knows for sure. Could low levels of aflatoxin affect reproduction without killing the birds? I don't know, but possibly. But something has been going on for over a decade preventing the population expansion that should be happening with proper habitat and harvest management.

 

[poorhunter]

I think that has certainly happened on occasion throughout the state, but isn't the cause for the major drop, IMO....

The biggest cause for the decline is that hens have simply quit rearing poults. Back in the 90's, it was rare for me to see a hen without poults. Now I'm only seeing 1 out of 10 hens who have successfully gotten hatched eggs out of the nest. I have no idea why... increased nest/ young poult predation, decreased fertility from removing males too early, decrease in safe nesting habitat, etc, etc are all possible reasons, but no one really knows for sure. Could low levels of aflatoxin affect reproduction without killing the birds? I don't know, but possibly. But something has been going on for over a decade preventing the population expansion that should be happening with proper habitat and harvest management.

I don't know about aflatoxin effecting reproduction, but I'd say it's more than possible. There may be something else too, but whatever is happening it is drastic in some local areas but not effecting other areas at all. The effected areas are widespread too (besides Lincoln, Wayne County). This leads to looking hard at something like corn feeding being a major issue.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Agree poorhunter; seems very logical.

 

[woodsman04]

It isn't just all of Lincoln, Giles, Lawrence, and Wayne. Seems to me south of highway 64 through these four counties is much different than the north. Look at Giles county. It was like number 4 or 5 in harvest totals. I have no way to prove this, but I bet 90% of the harvest is north of highway 64.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[catman529]

Interesting theory, definitely a possibility.

Turkeys are weird, hard to figure out, and there's so many things that can factor into a decline vs a thriving population.

Everyone seems to have a strong opinion of why their birds are gone, but nobody actually really knows why.

People often refer to nest raiders, predators, hay cutting, agricultural practices as the reason why the birds are declining. But I see very very healthy populations in areas that are loaded with coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, hawks, owls, hay fields, and crop fields. And these birds have good hatches almost every year too. I think it will be really hard if not impossible to put a finger on whatever it is that actually causes a decline in any given area.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[volsrock]

It isn't just all of Lincoln, Giles, Lawrence, and Wayne. Seems to me south of highway 64 through these four counties is much different than the north. Look at Giles county. It was like number 4 or 5 in harvest totals. I have no way to prove this, but I bet 90% of the harvest is north of highway 64.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chicken yugo!!!! that is ur answer!!! where is the majority of the chicken houses located!!!

 

[Roost 1]

Interesting theory, definitely a possibility.

Turkeys are weird, hard to figure out, and there's so many things that can factor into a decline vs a thriving population.

Everyone seems to have a strong opinion of why their birds are gone, but nobody actually really knows why.

People often refer to nest raiders, predators, hay cutting, agricultural practices as the reason why the birds are declining. But I see very very healthy populations in areas that are loaded with coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, hawks, owls, hay fields, and crop fields. And these birds have good hatches almost every year too. I think it will be really hard if not impossible to put a finger on whatever it is that actually causes a decline in any given area.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

To go along with OP's theory.... no one is feeding corn EVER on the public land you hunt. You never mention anything about hunters on the private land around you either, so maybe no one is feeding there either.
It is an interesting theory. However it don't hold up for a place like LBL. Those birds are gone too...

 

[catman529]

Interesting theory, definitely a possibility.

Turkeys are weird, hard to figure out, and there's so many things that can factor into a decline vs a thriving population.

Everyone seems to have a strong opinion of why their birds are gone, but nobody actually really knows why.

People often refer to nest raiders, predators, hay cutting, agricultural practices as the reason why the birds are declining. But I see very very healthy populations in areas that are loaded with coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, hawks, owls, hay fields, and crop fields. And these birds have good hatches almost every year too. I think it will be really hard if not impossible to put a finger on whatever it is that actually causes a decline in any given area.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

To go along with OP's theory.... no one is feeding corn EVER on the public land you hunt. You never mention anything about hunters on the private land around you either, so maybe no one is feeding there either.
It is an interesting theory. However it don't hold up for a place like LBL. Those birds are gone too...

considering all our Walmart's and academy keep corn in stock, people are using it. It's apparent on Facebook that a lot of people bait. And yes they have done it on public land plenty of times. And the public land is surrounded by private land, a lot of which also gets hunted.

The corn thing is an interesting theory, but like I said in my first post, nobody really knows why turkeys disappear some places and thrive in other places with similar habitat and predators.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Interesting theory, definitely a possibility.

Turkeys are weird, hard to figure out, and there's so many things that can factor into a decline vs a thriving population.

Everyone seems to have a strong opinion of why their birds are gone, but nobody actually really knows why.

People often refer to nest raiders, predators, hay cutting, agricultural practices as the reason why the birds are declining. But I see very very healthy populations in areas that are loaded with coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, hawks, owls, hay fields, and crop fields. And these birds have good hatches almost every year too. I think it will be really hard if not impossible to put a finger on whatever it is that actually causes a decline in any given area.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

To go along with OP's theory.... no one is feeding corn EVER on the public land you hunt. You never mention anything about hunters on the private land around you either, so maybe no one is feeding there either.
It is an interesting theory. However it don't hold up for a place like LBL. Those birds are gone too...

LBL cares nothing about its wildlife. That place has been in my rear-view mirror for years.

As far as the current thread is concerned, we speculate it is likely due to nest raiders, bad corn and poor breeding (combination of all to an extent). What can we do about that on the land(s) we manage? For us, we can start trapping and we can quit putting corn out before season to reduce the chances of poisoning the turkeys.

As far as poor breeding is concerned, there is not much we can do unless the majority push for a later season opening, as many have mentioned on here the killing of mature birds too early causing hierarchy issues within their social network.

 

[AT Hiker]

Possible, maybe. But if that's the case the places I've hunted in KY must have never purchased infected corn. I've hunted two farms up there in Todd County. Baiting is a way of life for some of these people and thus far it has not hampered the turkey population there.

BUT...I don't know what the population was like 5 years ago either.

At my granddads place in Dickson county. It's like we had a mass turkey exodus. Hens just quit reproducing...luckily things changed this year. We have 6 poults that we know of still alive, basically it's a freaking miracle. Killed one Tom this year and it appears we will have 5 going in to fall.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ROVERBOY]

We've got a low population too. I heard and saw more birds 10 years ago than I do now. It could be tainted corn feeding. It doesn't really make sense to say that its nest raiders and predators. They are nothing new.

 

[Bgoodman30]

It isn't just all of Lincoln, Giles, Lawrence, and Wayne. Seems to me south of highway 64 through these four counties is much different than the north. Look at Giles county. It was like number 4 or 5 in harvest totals. I have no way to prove this, but I bet 90% of the harvest is north of highway 64.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chicken ******!!!! that is ur answer!!! where is the majority of the chicken houses located!!!

This has been my thoughts as well. Everyone always mentions the usual culprits but something else is up...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[elknturkey]

Interesting theory, definitely a possibility.

Turkeys are weird, hard to figure out, and there's so many things that can factor into a decline vs a thriving population.

Everyone seems to have a strong opinion of why their birds are gone, but nobody actually really knows why.

People often refer to nest raiders, predators, hay cutting, agricultural practices as the reason why the birds are declining. But I see very very healthy populations in areas that are loaded with coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, hawks, owls, hay fields, and crop fields. And these birds have good hatches almost every year too. I think it will be really hard if not impossible to put a finger on whatever it is that actually causes a decline in any given area.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Totally agree. Doubt it's just one thing. Anyone hunted in the Midwest with their target rich environments? The number of coyotes and hawks is mind blowing yet the deer and turkey populations are thriving despite the harsher winters. We use to have quail when I was a kid and a lot of them before my time according to my uncles. Zero now. I've always wondered if there's a common denominator.

 

[drake799]

I've wondered about the coated seeds that are planted these days. I've killed gobblers in past 2-3 years with that in their craw. This is just pure speculation on my part. But it's something that has crossed my mind. Is it poisoning birds?! Making them infertile?? Who knows