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Will expandable work with my setup?

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TS_13

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I have a guardian, 67lb, 25in bemen arrow 400's ( 310 total wt with head). I have heard that expandables ie rage or gator would not function properly with this set up? any words of wisdom??
 
The guy doesn't know what he is talking about. Those two BH's would be ones I would recommend for low poundage. They open very easy. I have used both.
 
Thats really what I thought, but not having shot them before I thought I would ask. His concern was the cutting diameter. Thanks guys, I wanted some opinions (that hopefully matched mine) :o)
 
TS_13 said:
Thats really what I thought, but not having shot them before I thought I would ask. His concern was the cutting diameter. Thanks guys, I wanted some opinions (that hopefully matched mine) :o)
Click to expand...
Your guy would freak at my setup. My expandables work just fine.
 
google archery ke calculator.

I ran your numbers it's ESTIMATING 278 fps and 53 lb of KE.

Look at grim reapers they only need one lb of pressure to open
 
TS_13 said:
Guy was telling me that i wasnt pushing enough arrow for them.
Click to expand...

Whomever told you that, is exactly right! Due to the law of physics, I would take another look at the weight of your arrow if you are going to use any type of mechanical broadhead. The reason is with your setup you will shed alot of energy in a very short distance with such a light arrow weight�loss of inertia is what it is called�if you take a golf ball and a ping-pong ball and through them at equal speeds which one will go further...the golf ball; also if someone stands ten feet in front of you and throws both balls at you, which one will hurt the most...the golf ball of course.
Another problem is the old saying, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction�your target will actually resist penetration in greater amounts with a lighter arrow. A slower, heavier weight arrow, will carry more kinetic energy down range, for a longer period, and hit with greater impact than a lighter arrow.
Then you still have another problem�the mechanical broadhead. With that arrow you already have shed alot of inertia and potential energy downrange at 20yds and now the broadhead is going to lose even more kinetic energy during its opening process�no matter how "easy" it opens.
To make a long story, short. Check your FOC and get it in the 20% range�that will help your impact energy a tremendous amount.I also would definately go with a heavier arrow, and perhaps increase your broadhead weight, which will go back to FOC. Most of all I would NOT use a mechanical because even if you go with a heavier arrow, a quality cut-on-contact broadhead will outperform it and you will end up with better downrange physics and in the end...results.
 
bowtch huntr209 said:
google archery ke calculator.

I ran your numbers it's ESTIMATING 278 fps and 53 lb of KE.

Look at grim reapers they only need one lb of pressure to open
Click to expand...

yes, but that is out of the bow numbers. He will lose alot of speed and energy quickly downrange and then deal with the energy lost during blade opening.
 
I under stand all that and not trying to start an argument by any means but this is straight from the grim reaper website. He inquired about mechanicals and I believe these would work.

The Grim Reaper Razortip came on the market in 2000 and rewrote the book on mechanical heads. It solved all the problems mechanicals had. With it you can take steep angled tree-stand shots, steep quartering shots and up hill/down hill shots and not worry about deflection. The three blades float independently on a rugged shock absorbing spring and open without any kick on the arrow. Grim Reaper has never had one complaint in 9 years of selling Grim Reaper mechanicals of a Grim Reaper deflecting. You can shoot Grim Reapers through plywood, steel drums, 2300 pound buffalo, 10 ft Brown bears and just about anything else. The blades only take one pound of pressure to open. The Razortip produces huge entrance holes, and people shooting 38-41 lb bows (generating 37 lbs of kinetic energy) are getting pass throughs on whitetail deer with it.
 
Thanks guys! I really appreciate all of the advice. The last thing I want to do is waste money. I just bought these arrow (last week). I was going to go with the 340's 9.something /inch. But bemen and others told me to go with the 400's.
 
TS_13 said:
So would it matter with the rage heads that open before entry? Wouldnt be much loss of KE right?
Click to expand...

It would very much matter because you would have even greater energy loss as the arrow wobbled downrange losing speed (and potential energy) because of erratic flight characteristics. Then you would have the whole problem of the impact and energy loss not knowing if both blades are opened the same, or if only one is open or any other combination of blade opening/closed problems.
 
TNDeerGuy said:
TS_13 said:
Guy was telling me that i wasnt pushing enough arrow for them.
Click to expand...

Whomever told you that, is exactly right! Due to the law of physics, I would take another look at the weight of your arrow if you are going to use any type of mechanical broadhead. The reason is with your setup you will shed alot of energy in a very short distance with such a light arrow weight�loss of inertia is what it is called�if you take a golf ball and a ping-pong ball and through them at equal speeds which one will go further...the golf ball; also if someone stands ten feet in front of you and throws both balls at you, which one will hurt the most...the golf ball of course.
Another problem is the old saying, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction�your target will actually resist penetration in greater amounts with a lighter arrow. A slower, heavier weight arrow, will carry more kinetic energy down range, for a longer period, and hit with greater impact than a lighter arrow.
Then you still have another problem�the mechanical broadhead. With that arrow you already have shed alot of inertia and potential energy downrange at 20yds and now the broadhead is going to lose even more kinetic energy during its opening process�no matter how "easy" it opens.
To make a long story, short. Check your FOC and get it in the 20% range�that will help your impact energy a tremendous amount.I also would definately go with a heavier arrow, and perhaps increase your broadhead weight, which will go back to FOC. Most of all I would NOT use a mechanical because even if you go with a heavier arrow, a quality cut-on-contact broadhead will outperform it and you will end up with better downrange physics and in the end...results.
Click to expand...
Very good post! There is much much more involved than most realize when dealing with penetration. For instance, the fact that it takes only 1 lb to open a mechanical, has nothing to do with how much pressure it takes to push 3 blades, 2 inches wide, thru a deer, especially with a less than perfect shot?
You are shooting a super light arrow setup, by my standards anyway. If I were you I would definitely go with a good cut on contact fixed blade head. There is absolutely no chance for failure, and if your bow and arrows are tuned the way they are supposed to be, you wont have any problems at all.
 
IMO, You will be fine. This was my setup the first year I bow hunted.
53 pounds 29 inch draw 390 grain arrow with trophy ridge meat seeker broadheads. I was scooting along at a whopping 232 fps according to bass pros chrono. :D I shot 4 deer that year ranging from 20-40 yards and got a pass through on every one.
 

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