WTM (or anyone else) bream discussion

[RUGER]

I didn't want to hijack the crappie thread but in it you said,

anytime a large amount of the 9-11 inch bluegill are removed you will pretty much destroy the bluegill fishery.

Back a few years ago I posted a question on here about whether or not I (along with others of course) could damage the bream population of a 175 acre body of water.
It was the general consensus that it couldn't be "over fished".

I think I agree with your above statement though.
Granted I never caught anything larger than 9 3/4" but in one year I did put a rather substantial hammering on fish in the 8 to 9 3/4" range.
None of them were wasted, they were all eaten by myself or my friends.
In a matter of one Spring / Summer I took about 1,200 of these size bream out of the water.
The following year was absolutely horrible for bream. I struggled to catch & keep much over 200 fish of the same size as the year before.
The year after that was even worse.
Last year the weather was absolutely horrible every chance I had to go fishing so it wasn't an issue but even still I didn't see the size fish I had seen that first year.

I know I didn't do it alone but if I had that good of a year I am sure everyone else did too and I really believe it has hurt the population.
I am hoping this year is better.

Do you think that could be a case of over taking enough to the point that it could hurt the population on a body of water that size?

 

[Jmed]

I would say yes. if you take out a sizable portion of the "breeding stock" you are going to feel the effects. Its easy to do when they are bunched up on beds. I think the same has happened to the big red ears and blue gills on many lakes. I live on Chickamauga and the big ones have been harder to come by each year. when I was a kid, we used to fill up 50lb. onion sacks to the rim with them.

 

[fairchaser]

I know some of the small public lakes like Herb Parsons and Maples Creek lake get hammered and it's hard to catch a decent size bream or crappie. It's hard for bigger fish to hide and once the smaller fish take over, it's hard to keep them off your hook.

 

[WTM]

yes, keeping too many of the "bull" bluegill, especially in small bodies of water, will stunt the population. this is not back yard biology but substantiated by sound research for the last 30 years. for years biologists thought that overpopulation was the problem and that bluegill were so prolific breeders that they couldnt be hurt from over fishing.

bluegill are social fish and there heirarchy are determined by size structure, probably more so than other fish. it takes on average about 1" per year to grow bluegill, unless it is an extremely fertile lake or they are being fed. so, it takes about 7-10 years to produce a 7-10" bluegill. these larger bluegill, 9-11" will control the breeding population of the others. this is why those fish get the best breeding spots in the middle of the nest and will run the smaller fish to the outsides of the nest. bluegill do not reach sexual maturity until about the 7th year.

so what happens is when a lot of the larger bulls are caught and kept, the smaller fish' gonads will mature much earlier, sometimes at 3-5". once they are sexually mature at that size they no longer put on length or weight because all of their energy goes to sexual reproduction.

on larger impoundments like KY lake, the effect isnt as dramatic because bluegill have a lot more places to hide and reach those lengths and our large population of LMB keep the smaller fish up to 5" in check. BUT, i have seen populations that have taken a beating from fishing guides taking too many larger size fish. case in point, there is a KY guide that boasts of taking 500 fish an outing on west sandy but last year he was complaining that he was having trouble finding those bigger bulls. no duh!! Garry Mason is one of the few guides that i know that limits the number of bluegill on his boat at 100.

the westport lakes used to hold big bluegill back years ago, now youd be lucky to catch a 9" fish. watts bar is another where fisherman where asking where have all of the big bluegill gone. if you think about where the world record bluegill was caught then the notion of overpopulation and habitat goes out the window if there is a balanced bass to bluegill population. the world record was caught out of a rock quarry that was closed to fishing. the water was so clear the guy had crawl and sneak to cast at them.

the mantra for years on KY lake has been release the females and keep every male you catch. myself personally, i only keep fish in the 7-9" range and keep a few females as well. i only keep enough to eat and dont stock the freezer with them.

as popular as bluegill fishing is on KY lake now, i have a bad feeling that some of those colonies will start diminishing as well, if not already.

 

[WTM]

here is a laymens synopsis of the latest findings on bluegill reproduction without having to read the actual research paper:

http://www.outdoornews.com/2016/01/04/r ... bluegills/

here is what serious bluegill fisherman found on watts bar a few years back:

http://archive.knoxnews.com/sports/hodg ... 5071.html/

 

[RUGER]

Very very interesting.

So can a body of water, say less than 200 acres ever really fully recover from overfishing in terms of having large bluegill again? Or will they forever stay "stunted" ?

If so, are you thinking it will take 2 or 3 years or more like 5 to 7 ?

 

[WTM]

Very very interesting.

So can a body of water, say less than 200 acres ever really fully recover from overfishing in terms of having large bluegill again? Or will they forever stay "stunted" ?

If so, are you thinking it will take 2 or 3 years or more like 5 to 7 ?

according to the research a relatively short period of time, 2-3 years, if total lake fishing pressure is reduced. i would say that would be possible for a fertile lake and a bit longer for a less fertile lake and it would also depend on the LMB population in that lake. one sure fire way to tell if a lake is fertile and has faster growing bluegill: the bigger gills will have bug eyes. if you have ever fished reelfoot you will know what im talking about. id be willing to bet that reelfoot bluegill reach 8-9" in 3-4 years.

there are only a couple of TWRA family lakes that actually place a limit on bluegill and i wonder how those lakes are doing.

 

[Cache]

Interesting. I always thought overpopulation caused stunted growth of all fish.

 

[Smo]

I would think over population in a pond would reduce growth rate but in a 200 acre lake it would be hard to over populate if any predator fish were present.

I don't see how one or two people could over fish a lake that size.

If it were a public fishing lake that could be possible I would think however.

 

[Crappieaddict]

Very interesting discussion.

 

[Pilchard]

Not trying to be a smart azz but what is the purpose of keeping 1200 bluegill in a single year?

To answer you question, I think no matter the size, a lake/river/ocean can be overfished if people are taking that many fish.

 

[RUGER]

Not trying to be a smart azz but what is the purpose of keeping 1200 bluegill in a single year?

To answer you question, I think no matter the size, a lake/river/ocean can be overfished if people are taking that many fish.

Actually it was in a span of about 3 months.
Spread out between 2 TWRA lakes, 2 private ponds, the Carroll County 1,000 acre lake and Ky lake.

To answer your question, to eat them.
They were GOOD too.

 

[Pilchard]

Are you freezing them? Giving them away? That seems like a lot of fish for a single person/household.

Just my opinion, but if you ever have to ask yourself- did I keep too many fish? -the answer is yes.

Maybe I'm spoiled from living in Florida where I could catch fish to eat anytime I wanted all year long.

 

[RUGER]

Froze them all.
Cooked a BUNCH of them for my family & friends.
Gave a couple boxes away.

Typical meal here is for 5 adults, sometimes up to 7.
Normally I will cook 120 fillets per 5 people, that is 2 boxes.
When I have 7 I cooked 3 boxes.
Didn't take as long as it sounds to eat them all.

6 different bodies of water.
2 of which have 20 bream limits, which I have never exceeded.

Around here to catch bream in any numbers you got about 3 months max to catch them, after that you will be hard pressed to catch enough to justify getting the knife dirty.

 

[Smo]

Around here to catch bream in any numbers you got about 3 months max to catch them, after that you will be hard pressed to catch enough to justify getting the knife dirty.



Why is that?

 

[WTM]

Around here to catch bream in any numbers you got about 3 months max to catch them, after that you will be hard pressed to catch enough to justify getting the knife dirty.



Why is that?

probably because most of those smaller lakes he fishes are really fertile and stratify in the summer. suspended thermocline bluegill are not hard to catch, but can be hard to find. you can run the sensitivity up on 2d to find the thermocline but you still have to cover all those acres of water to find the fish.

on KY lake there is no thermocline in the summer so they generally have patterns similar to bass, food and structure oriented. after the first spawn the largest fish head to deeper water close to the ledge and off the humps. find some humps with shells/snails on them and you will generally find them again until fall when they start to migrate to the deeper creek channels and creek mouths for winter. there are some deep water docks that hold fish as well in summer.

 

[WTM]

Froze them all.
Cooked a BUNCH of them for my family & friends.
Gave a couple boxes away.

Typical meal here is for 5 adults, sometimes up to 7.
Normally I will cook 120 fillets per 5 people, that is 2 boxes.
When I have 7 I cooked 3 boxes.
Didn't take as long as it sounds to eat them all.

6 different bodies of water.
2 of which have 20 bream limits, which I have never exceeded.

Around here to catch bream in any numbers you got about 3 months max to catch them, after that you will be hard pressed to catch enough to justify getting the knife dirty.

yeah i remember you posted a pic of your last bag, and you was like, now what am i gonna do? :tu:

 

[Smo]

Around here to catch bream in any numbers you got about 3 months max to catch them, after that you will be hard pressed to catch enough to justify getting the knife dirty.



Why is that?

probably because most of those smaller lakes he fishes are really fertile and stratify in the summer. suspended thermocline bluegill are not hard to catch, but can be hard to find. you can run the sensitivity up on 2d to find the thermocline but you still have to cover all those acres of water to find the fish.

on KY lake there is no thermocline in the summer so they generally have patterns similar to bass, food and structure oriented. after the first spawn the largest fish head to deeper water close to the ledge and off the humps. find some humps with shells/snails on them and you will generally find them again until fall when they start to migrate to the deeper creek channels and creek mouths for winter. there are some deep water docks that hold fish as well in summer.

Thanks WTM, Ky Lake is still new to me but I learning little by little now.

We just need a good break in the weather now.

 

[RUGER]

We just need a good break in the weather now.

Good luck with that.
I been waiting on one of those for two years now.