bloodtrailing
Well-Known Member
May save more jakes than anything. With four tags I think more people will use one or more on a jake.
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3 bird limit?
- Thread starter Boll Weevil
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TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
THIS!
Many hunters do in fact "save" that last tag, just so they can continue "hunting" more days!
Because of this, the number of turkeys saved may be more akin to
going from a 3 to a 2-bird limit, than what some are expecting by our going from the 4 to a 3-bird limit.
Boll Weevil
Well-Known Member
If indeed only 6% of hunters killed 4, reducing by 1 bird is almost rounding error.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
The "birds saved" estimate may be more accurate if look at difference in numbers between hunters who killed 3 vs. 2 birds, since so many "save" their last tag to keep on hunting, many killing "one" less than whatever the limit.
Of course, there are quite a few hunters simply trying to limit out in our 1st week, as they plan to move on to the next early-opening state and do same, before returning to their "home" state (which may or may not be TN).
tndeer12
Member
How do y'all think the use of TSS shot has affected the success rate of Turkey hunters? Seems like it has extended the range of most shotguns which has to be impacting the overall kill to some extent. #9 TSS will easily kill out to 50-60 yards. The more dense pattern of the # 9's coupled with the pellet weight equaling that of a #6 lead shot has essentially extended the effective range of most shotguns on the market by 15-20 yards. How many times have you had that ole Tom hang up at 50+ yards and all you could do is sit there and watch him strut around until he just disappears? I now hear stories of people killing turkeys out to 70-80 yards. Where is the sport in that. Technologies like TSS shot and tactics like fanning are taking a toll on turkeys too. If we don't draw a line as to how we harvest turkeys, we are going to have to resort to actions like reducing bag limits and pushing back the start date of season in order keep us from self destructing.
The wound rate and subsequent dead birds from shooting at birds too far with TSS is also a factor. Folks will pop off 60+ yard shots and if they don't get the bird "Oh well, I missed". When in fact, that bird probably has caught a few pellets. Anyone who has killed a bunch of turkeys has likely killed some birds carrying lead shot from another hunter. But with TSS, that shot penetrates much deeper and is more likely to result in a fatally wounded bird.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
This is yet another aspect of what's at play . . . . .
We now have more turkey hunters, the hunters are now "more effective" turkey hunters, having not only longer-range killing tools, but more & more comfortable ways to hunt (i.e. a pop-up blind, better clothing, footwear, etc.)
Unlike times past, more hunters today also hunt ALL day, compared to more just hunting early mornings in the past.
Yet we have less turkeys than years ago,
fewer turkeys per hunter afield,
and the hunters afield are hunting more hours per day.
And there you have it!
We now have more turkey hunters, the hunters are now "more effective" turkey hunters, having not only longer-range killing tools, but more & more comfortable ways to hunt (i.e. a pop-up blind, better clothing, footwear, etc.)
Unlike times past, more hunters today also hunt ALL day, compared to more just hunting early mornings in the past.
Yet we have less turkeys than years ago,
fewer turkeys per hunter afield,
and the hunters afield are hunting more hours per day.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
While I agree with what you're saying, am not sure TSS is making things much worse because some hunters were doing this before TSS. On another hand, when used responsibly, TSS may reduce wounding losses, and does have fewer "flyers" compared to lead.
Agree 100% with "when used responsibly"
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
There is no one thing we can do (within reason) that becomes some kind of magic bullet in producing robust turkey populations.
In fact, most of the factors are beyond our control (as hunters).
Whatever we do in terms of rules & regulations, those "laws" typically are only as good as they can be enforced. Much easier to enforce a later opening date than what type pellets a hunter has loaded in his gun?
For example, look at our baiting laws.
To what extent are they enforced?
As a prime example, I'll pick on my "home turf" of LBL.
From a regulatory standpoint, you will be hard-pressed to find turkey hunting regs anywhere else in TN as conducive to producing and keeping a robust turkey population. And the enforcement of those regs, imo, greatly exceeds what we see "statewide" in most counties.
Our season actually does open later, our spring limit is now only 1 bird, period.
And that limit had been only 2 while the limit was 4 across the adjoining TN counties. So now, TN statewide limit is 3, LBL limit is 1.
Yet I believe we may have fewer turkeys per square mile within LBL than the adjoining TN counties of Stewart & Henry.
Go figure.
Just saying, the problems are not mainly decoys and blinds, but mostly factors beyond the control of most hunters. It's just that we can control our own hunting ethics, if we so choose, and the wildlife agencies can augment that with practical regs, more easily enforced, like the season opening date.
My hope is that our wild turkey don't go the route of our wild quail.
I don't think this is going to happen, but a few decades ago, never would have believed our native quail would become so close to being an extinct species now.
In fact, most of the factors are beyond our control (as hunters).
Whatever we do in terms of rules & regulations, those "laws" typically are only as good as they can be enforced. Much easier to enforce a later opening date than what type pellets a hunter has loaded in his gun?
For example, look at our baiting laws.
To what extent are they enforced?
As a prime example, I'll pick on my "home turf" of LBL.
From a regulatory standpoint, you will be hard-pressed to find turkey hunting regs anywhere else in TN as conducive to producing and keeping a robust turkey population. And the enforcement of those regs, imo, greatly exceeds what we see "statewide" in most counties.
Our season actually does open later, our spring limit is now only 1 bird, period.
And that limit had been only 2 while the limit was 4 across the adjoining TN counties. So now, TN statewide limit is 3, LBL limit is 1.
Yet I believe we may have fewer turkeys per square mile within LBL than the adjoining TN counties of Stewart & Henry.
Go figure.
Just saying, the problems are not mainly decoys and blinds, but mostly factors beyond the control of most hunters. It's just that we can control our own hunting ethics, if we so choose, and the wildlife agencies can augment that with practical regs, more easily enforced, like the season opening date.
My hope is that our wild turkey don't go the route of our wild quail.
I don't think this is going to happen, but a few decades ago, never would have believed our native quail would become so close to being an extinct species now.
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TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
As an aside, maybe near impossible for many to believe now,
but when I was growing up, quail hunting was by far more popular in Tennessee than is turkey hunting today.
More people quail hunted then, than turkey hunt today.
Am referencing quail here because in many respects, bobwhite quail are very much like a diminutive wild turkey. Quail and quail populations are just more fragile.
Despite that quail fragility, hunters near completely wiped out the wild turkey across Tennessee in the early 1900's, yet the quail populations were robust until at least the 1960's, only majorly declining in the past two or three decades.
Over-hunting had almost nothing to do with the quail decline, and our current turkey decline may also be less effected by hunting than by other factors. Still makes no sense to not take reasonable steps that can't hurt, and should help?
but when I was growing up, quail hunting was by far more popular in Tennessee than is turkey hunting today.
More people quail hunted then, than turkey hunt today.
Am referencing quail here because in many respects, bobwhite quail are very much like a diminutive wild turkey. Quail and quail populations are just more fragile.
Despite that quail fragility, hunters near completely wiped out the wild turkey across Tennessee in the early 1900's, yet the quail populations were robust until at least the 1960's, only majorly declining in the past two or three decades.
Over-hunting had almost nothing to do with the quail decline, and our current turkey decline may also be less effected by hunting than by other factors. Still makes no sense to not take reasonable steps that can't hurt, and should help?
Goodtimekiller
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You guys are at it again I see. If everyone that is so concerned would go a year or two and not harvest any, maybe that would make a difference. No one is willing to try that on their own.
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During the quail decline there was a corresponding decline in fur prices which began the trapping decline, a decline in habitat fueled by a rowcrop expansion, the turkey rebound and an increase of use of pesticides and herbicides and an increase in hunting pressure via more hunters and a trend of kennels full of dogs rather than the single dog of hunters past.
As a note to this there is a contingent that strongly believes there is a disease involved as well ( I have no knowledge of this ) The reasoning is directed toward the fact that quail have not rebounded except in limited pockets.
Thru burning, leaving edges, allowing native grasses, weeds and forbs thrive as well as year round pressure on predators we are seeing an expansion of quail on one large farm in Western, KY. "Reasonable steps"
Something else to consider on turkey (and other birds) During a recent conversation with a group of land owning hunters and their management people including a couple names I promised not to reveal. There is some concern and belief in another factor not much discussed as to the decline. Most seed is treated and gassed to keep insects and rodents from infesting and consuming the seed. These coatings last anywhere from 6 months to over 2 years depending on the seed type, how much exists in stocks, marketing delivery methods and more. In the hands of the end user there is no oversight but in the hands of the seed companies there is oversight in regards to handling, exposure and disposal due to the chemicals present on large quantities. As an example the seed that is donated to NWTF as wildlife seed would be very expensive to dispose of in bulk that it is cheaper to bag and donate than dispose. A very large quantity of this seed is broadcast rather than planted and is consumed by wildlife with poison intact. Again, not a single cause but certainly could be a factor!
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I harvested 2 in 2020, 0 in 2019 and 1 in 2018.
I believe in practicing what I preach.
tndeer12
Member
Also, with COVID hitting last year, there was a lot of "working from home", going on. That increased the amount of hunting pressure a good bit as well.
Happened a few years ago in MS. Treated seed wiped out a flock. Details in this link:
Treated seeds blamed for turkey deaths in Tallahatchie County
Wheat seeds that tested positive for insecticides are being blamed for the mysterious deaths of 15 wild turkey hens found in Tallahatchie County, state wildlife officials said Monday.
www.ms-sportsman.com
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Agreed but how many small farmers use these programs! The facts are that the vast majority of these incentives are consumed by large land holders. Most CRP monies are consumed by large land holders that even lease land for that purpose. Most of these do not manage predators, they only do the minimum required to stay compliant. Many of these programs have been full in recent years and the paperwork, regulations and costs incurred are so that small farmers and recreational land owners are not participating. None of these programs are directed to or limited to small farmers or recreational land owners. CRP requires a recent multi year row crop history. There are many ways we can improve the incentives and better educate land owners and users.
In Western KY row crop land leases for $150 to $200 per acre, there is your incentives.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Goodtimekiller said:
You guys are at it again I see. If everyone that is so concerned would go a year or two and not harvest any, maybe that would make a difference. No one is willing to try that on their own.
I only personally killed 1 in 2020.
Hard for me to feel good about killing much more than that when in a pretty large area, can only find evidence of 2 or 3 longbeards still living after the season's first few days. Hoping can justify killing a couple this year, but that depends largely on what appears to have survived those 1st 9 days.
Just note what percentage of our annual kills occurs in those 1st 9 days, year after year.
You guys are at it again I see. If everyone that is so concerned would go a year or two and not harvest any, maybe that would make a difference. No one is willing to try that on their own.
Agree.
I only personally killed 1 in 2020.
Hard for me to feel good about killing much more than that when in a pretty large area, can only find evidence of 2 or 3 longbeards still living after the season's first few days. Hoping can justify killing a couple this year, but that depends largely on what appears to have survived those 1st 9 days.
Just note what percentage of our annual kills occurs in those 1st 9 days, year after year.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
Haven't limited out since TN went from a 2 bird limit to a 4 bird limit... strictly self imposed, although most of the birds I pass get shot on the neighbors who do not self regulate.
Number of problems in my opinion.
1. Decoys
2.80 yard turkey guns
3.Nest predators
4. Poachers
5.Baiters and wildlife feeders-alfatoxins
Possible Solutions,
1. Ban full strut decoys and reaping
2. Not much you can do except illegalize tss and heavy shot and I'm not a fan of that.
3. Legalize night time predator hunting to make up for the lack of trappers
4 Not much we can do except support our twra.
5. Ban all wildlife feeding.
Did I miss anything else or pi$$ anybody off?
1. Decoys
2.80 yard turkey guns
3.Nest predators
4. Poachers
5.Baiters and wildlife feeders-alfatoxins
Possible Solutions,
1. Ban full strut decoys and reaping
2. Not much you can do except illegalize tss and heavy shot and I'm not a fan of that.
3. Legalize night time predator hunting to make up for the lack of trappers
4 Not much we can do except support our twra.
5. Ban all wildlife feeding.
Did I miss anything else or pi$$ anybody off?
