Let's Talk Catoosa

[MickThompson]

Hey bud not being argumentative, if it came off that way. I had a neighbor that hunted it in the 70s, 80s and 90s. He always talked how great the place was and he had the wall to prove it, im talking studs. My dad also hunted it back in the glory days and saw what he said was 2 of the largest deer he's ever saw. I've got family that has a farm that borders catoosa they've went from seeing 20 deer an evening to now seeing 2-3 deer a week.So, for that reason I started hunting it in early 00s. I've hunted it and seen some dandy's. Honestly 2 years ago was my best year for sightings but it took years to decipher that area out to give my best accessibility to the spot so that other hunters would push deer to me. I'm not sure without the orange army that I'd even saw deer. I do however get what your saying about deer to hunter ratio for wmas. Tennessee in general is lacking management on public ground. All public ground. 4 on one side or this 9 pt rule crap is not management. I saw a 70 inch 9 pt 2y/o this morning. I've got a 7 pt that may possibly make 120plus that I know is 4.5. If I was a manager which do I shoot. lol. I guess you see why we're a bit aggravated over Twra and the program they've set. I won't get into the rest of it, maybe others will speak up. By the way they may have been clear cuts then to, but they weren't clear cut happy like today. You said you haven't been there for a good long while. Be ready to have the wind took out your sails. It's a clearcut.

I think part of it is expectations- when good bucks can be found more and more across the state, it takes the shine off a place that used to be the only place to experience that.

What would you suggest for regulations to bring it back?

I hear many stories of Catoosa hunters ground checking multiple bucks- either to find a dead one that finally meets the minimum or only checking the biggest legal one. And lots of concern over road hunting. I'm not sure how to fix either one of those

 

[quackaholic]

Hey bud not being argumentative, if it came off that way. I had a neighbor that hunted it in the 70s, 80s and 90s. He always talked how great the place was and he had the wall to prove it, im talking studs. My dad also hunted it back in the glory days and saw what he said was 2 of the largest deer he's ever saw. I've got family that has a farm that borders catoosa they've went from seeing 20 deer an evening to now seeing 2-3 deer a week.So, for that reason I started hunting it in early 00s. I've hunted it and seen some dandy's. Honestly 2 years ago was my best year for sightings but it took years to decipher that area out to give my best accessibility to the spot so that other hunters would push deer to me. I'm not sure without the orange army that I'd even saw deer. I do however get what your saying about deer to hunter ratio for wmas. Tennessee in general is lacking management on public ground. All public ground. 4 on one side or this 9 pt rule crap is not management. I saw a 70 inch 9 pt 2y/o this morning. I've got a 7 pt that may possibly make 120plus that I know is 4.5. If I was a manager which do I shoot. lol. I guess you see why we're a bit aggravated over Twra and the program they've set. I won't get into the rest of it, maybe others will speak up. By the way they may have been clear cuts then to, but they weren't clear cut happy like today. You said you haven't been there for a good long while. Be ready to have the wind took out your sails. It's a clearcut.

Never thought you were arguing, so don't worry about that. I'm just a little curious as to different thoughts on the place. I never thought it was a great place. I know for a fact it's hard to hunt and you can never do the scouting that the area game managers do and pass that info to their families. And yes I had one tell me he did so. When he saw good ones he kept tabs on them and made sure they knew where to go. I am inclined to think that they should allow more open hunting and less draws. No rifle hunts period and no antler restrictions.

 

[East TN Bowhunter]

Never thought you were arguing, so don't worry about that. I'm just a little curious as to different thoughts on the place. I never thought it was a great place. I know for a fact it's hard to hunt and you can never do the scouting that the area game managers do and pass that info to their families. And yes I had one tell me he did so. When he saw good ones he kept tabs on them and made sure they knew where to go. I am inclined to think that they should allow more open hunting and less draws. No rifle hunts period and no antler restrictions.

That would be awesome, but way too many gun hunters that would be tore up about no gun hunts. I do like the 4 on one side bc in my opinion it does keep atleast most of the 1-2yr olds alive til they hit 3. I think it is better than no restrictions at all, but I am not sure what the better answer would be than 4 on one side or 15inch spread. It is a tough hunt with lots of doe groups and big steep draws everywhere you go. I think scouting 10x more than you hunt is probably the most important factor to success there. I also think the weather helped play a significant role in the number of does that were killed during the open bow hunt this year as well as limited acorn crop=more movement.

 

[quackaholic]

Just a thought on the area and hunters walking around you. That isn't the areas fault, nor the management of the area. That is a direct result of stupidity. Albeit sometimes it can be accidental when you walk in from one direction and walk up on someone who came from another. But if you park where another guy is parked, you have to know you have probably seen the same sign and have the same location in mind, so if you are not there first....move on down the road. Don't just walk in hoping to cut that person off. Most likely there is more than one with him already going to that spot.

 

[Billboy]

Last time I hunted there a nice 6pt walked right under my stand. About 2 minutes later I heard a shot a few hundred yards away, coming from the direction he was headed. On my way out at lunchtime, he was laying dead, no hunter to be found. I'm sure this happens all the time. Between this behavior and all my favorite spots being clearcut, I've never been back.

 

[Pso94]

Last time I hunted there a nice 6pt walked right under my stand. About 2 minutes later I heard a shot a few hundred yards away, coming from the direction he was headed. On my way out at lunchtime, he was laying dead, no hunter to be found. I'm sure this happens all the time. Between this behavior and all my favorite spots being clearcut, I've never been back.

So where does everyone go that all this talk of too many hunters in one place? Bicolor or genesis? I'd LOVE to avoid every Elmer and weekend warrior but sometimes you can't help it. Like most- if someone is parked there, we keep driving but at some point you have to pull in somewhere and just hope you avoid them or they avoid you. I'm not offended when someone walks up- miffed but I get it. Ain't their fault. Especially in bicolor. Call it what you want but It's completely attributed to too many tags for that timing.

 

[Volbuck777]

I think part of it is expectations- when good bucks can be found more and more across the state, it takes the shine off a place that used to be the only place to experience that.

What would you suggest for regulations to bring it back?

I hear many stories of Catoosa hunters ground checking multiple bucks- either to find a dead one that finally meets the minimum or only checking the biggest legal one. And lots of concern over road hunting. I'm not sure how to fix either one of those

I honestly don't feel like they should be a restriction on bucks. If people are ground checking bucks it's the hunters that are going to kill the first deer they see anyway. So why give them an opportunity to kill two. They shot the one that wasn't legal and left it laying because they're afraid of what may happen to them and now they get another chance and may do it again. If the 2nd is legal they've still taken 2 bucks and neither one is going to get any older. In this case let them kill the 4 pt and let them be happy with it and go on their way. You just saved a buck. The other type of hunter is the one with trigger restraint. He could have a nice 10 walk by but won't shoot because it's a 2.5 y/o. That 4 on one side doesn't concern him either way. He's a trophy hunter that doesn't lift his gun unless he knows it's going on the wall. So what good is restrictions in this case. Is it saving deer or leaving more for bears and coyotes to eat. I hate that they took away the bonus buck personally. It would make sense if it was a desirable hunt, it's not. A lot of guys that go there it's because tradition of camping with their buddies. I believe they need to cut back on the number of hunters per hunt also. At one time the area could take that number of hunters, but with all the acreage of cutover it confines hunters to certain areas. Now we're all aggravated because we're all hunting on top of each other. I've hunted public in other states. Ohio, Indiana, Georgia. They all have better opportunities at bigger deer with more hunters and no restrictions. More big deer getting killed more sightings on open hunts not draws. Plus alot of out of state hunters. It's desirable. Just my 2 cents.

 

[MickThompson]

I honestly don't feel like they should be a restriction on bucks. If people are ground checking bucks it's the hunters that are going to kill the first deer they see anyway. So why give them an opportunity to kill two. They shot the one that wasn't legal and left it laying because they're afraid of what may happen to them and now they get another chance and may do it again. If the 2nd is legal they've still taken 2 bucks and neither one is going to get any older. In this case let them kill the 4 pt and let them be happy with it and go on their way. You just saved a buck. The other type of hunter is the one with trigger restraint. He could have a nice 10 walk by but won't shoot because it's a 2.5 y/o. That 4 on one side doesn't concern him either way. He's a trophy hunter that doesn't lift his gun unless he knows it's going on the wall. So what good is restrictions in this case. Is it saving deer or leaving more for bears and coyotes to eat. I hate that they took away the bonus buck personally. It would make sense if it was a desirable hunt, it's not. A lot of guys that go there it's because tradition of camping with their buddies. I believe they need to cut back on the number of hunters per hunt also. At one time the area could take that number of hunters, but with all the acreage of cutover it confines hunters to certain areas. Now we're all aggravated because we're all hunting on top of each other. I've hunted public in other states. Ohio, Indiana, Georgia. They all have better opportunities at bigger deer with more hunters and no restrictions. More big deer getting killed more sightings on open hunts not draws. Plus alot of out of state hunters. It's desirable. Just my 2 cents.

That only works towards improving the hunting if 1) they check the first one they kill regardless of size, and 2) the hunter quota is significantly reduced. Poachers are gonna poach and cheaters are gonna cheat- bottom line.

Will Catoosa hunters tolerate needing 2-3 points to hunt? The ARs probably do more to allow higher hunter participation than to grow "monster bucks". Keep in mind that "15 inches or 4 points on a side" are designed to protect almost all yearlings, not to get deer to 4.5+ yo.

Ohio and Indiana have completely different soils, angriculture, and genetics- that's not even remotely an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Volbuck777]

That only works towards improving the hunting if 1) they check the first one they kill regardless of size, and 2) the hunter quota is significantly reduced. Poachers are gonna poach and cheaters are gonna cheat- bottom line.

Will Catoosa hunters tolerate needing 2-3 points to hunt? The ARs probably do more to allow higher hunter participation than to grow "monster bucks". Keep in mind that "15 inches or 4 points on a side" are designed to protect almost all yearlings, not to get deer to 4.5+ yo.

Ohio and Indiana have completely different soils, angriculture, and genetics- that's not even remotely an apples to apples comparison.

1)They kill, but they kill 1, not more.
2) not sure what you mean.
3) I'd tolerate 2-3 points if it were worth hunting
4)How about Georgia soils and genetics?

 

[MickThompson]

1)They kill, but they kill 1, not more.
2) not sure what you mean.
3) I'd tolerate 2-3 points if it were worth hunting
4)How about Georgia soils and genetics?

1) they might kill 1, but there are hunters already killing the first barely legal the see and hunting on.

2) antler restrictions that protect the biggest buck cohort allow many more hunters to participate in a hunt than if the hunt allows any buck to be harvested. It artificially depresses hunter success since the most abundant and susceptible cohort is off limits to harvest. The other way to limit harvest is to limit opportunity.

3) it doesn't matter what you or I would tolerate- what matters is what the hunters at large will, especially those that get drawn for 2 hunts per year right now. And the open hunt would almost certainly have to go away.

4) I don't know enough about where the particular hunts are held in GA, but the Cumberland Plateau has about as little row crop production as anywhere in Tennessee.

 

[Volbuck777]

1) they might kill 1, but there are hunters already killing the first barely legal the see and hunting on.

2) antler restrictions that protect the biggest buck cohort allow many more hunters to participate in a hunt than if the hunt allows any buck to be harvested. It artificially depresses hunter success since the most abundant and susceptible cohort is off limits to harvest. The other way to limit harvest is to limit opportunity.

3) it doesn't matter what you or I would tolerate- what matters is what the hunters at large will, especially those that get drawn for 2 hunts per year right now. And the open hunt would almost certainly have to go away.

4) I don't know enough about where the particular hunts are held in GA, but the Cumberland Plateau has about as little row crop production as anywhere in Tennesse

I have to ask what is your affiliation with catoosa /twra?

 

[killingtime 41]

everyone complained about the bonus buck going away. I didn't like it either. But I was hoping it would thin out the hunter participation. Went the very next year and you couldn't fit a tent in the camping area it so packed. It's been that way ever since. And what I've noticed after the change is even more 2.5 year old bucks killed. I don't have any answers except reduced quotas

 

[basshound]

I would like for Catoosa to be similar to LBL in the sense you could buy a season permit and it be bow the entire season with two draw hunts, one being juvenile. I grew up not far from there and hunted it every chance I got and loved the place, but it could be better in my opinion

 

[Carlos]

Everyone has their own plan, but anytime I hunt a place with antler restrictions- I'm after a wall-hanger.
I don't necessarily agree with guys who shoot the first, barely-legal buck, but that's their decision.

Lest year I passed on a decent 8pt because I had trail camera pictures of a much bigger one and the same area.
Some guys had seen me scouting the day before, and they setup right next to where I was for the following morning. Sure enough, as soon as the little 2.5 yo crossed the ridge- BOOM! On my way out around noon, I talked with them, and two guys were sitting along the roadside, waiting to be picked up. I congratulated them, and asked them about the buck- they said they shot a little 8 pointer. I asked em if it was a nice one? They said- "It's an 8 pointer." Sounding like they weren't proud of it at all, so why shoot it 30m after daylight on the first morning then dip-shyts?

 

[killingtime 41]

Everyone has their own plan, but anytime I hunt a place with antler restrictions- I'm after a wall-hanger.
I don't necessarily agree with guys who shoot the first, barely-legal buck, but that's their decision.

Lest year I passed on a decent 8pt because I had trail camera pictures of a much bigger one and the same area.
Some guys had seen me scouting the day before, and they setup right next to where I was for the following morning. Sure enough, as soon as the little 2.5 yo crossed the ridge- BOOM! On my way out around noon, I talked with them, and two guys were sitting along the roadside, waiting to be picked up. I congratulated them, and asked them about the buck- they said they shot a little 8 pointer. I asked em if it was a nice one? They said- "It's an 8 pointer." Sounding like they weren't proud of it at all, so why shoot it 30m after daylight on the first morning then dip-shyts?

I'm looking for a wall hanger myself. I will shoot a 3.5 year old as that's the limit I put for myself years ago. But it has to make my heart pump or I don't shoot it. I've had those opportunities out there but blew every opportunity. I'm hoping to get the monkey off my back in November. I'm not looking to shoot one just cause it's legal. But if that's what you want do it. Appreciate you scouting for me Carlos and giving me the coordinates to your pre hung stand locations. Just joking

 

[PickettSFHunter]

It is the first large area west of Knoxville and those counties bordering Knox. So, you get your influx of city people from Knox, Anderson, Blount, etc etc. When you have city people, it's going to be a mess, especially if 2000 are allowed. My opinion is like a lot of others, the quota needs to be lower. TWRA needs to make some other areas that are open same as statewide quota as well to give more quota opportunity. TN is growing far too rapidly to be able to continue to have the opportunity we have had in the past, just an unfortunate fact.

 

[Volbuck777]

Where did you go Mick?

 

[East TN Bowhunter]

I would like for Catoosa to be similar to LBL in the sense you could buy a season permit and it be bow the entire season with two draw hunts, one being juvenile. I grew up not far from there and hunted it every chance I got and loved the place, but it could be better in my opinion

I completely agree with this^^^

 

[DMD]

I completely agree with this^^^

Me too. In my opinion - that would be a great plan for Catoosa. It's really such a waste of HUGE tract of TWRA land when it is only open to deer hunting for about 20 days a year. That would be a perfect plan, to me. Plenty of hunting opportunity, more does being killed - balancing the herd a little better, and providing a place for hunters to hunt all season with land opportunities shrinking in Tennessee by the day.

 

[East TN Bowhunter]

Me too. In my opinion - that would be a great plan for Catoosa. It's really such a waste of HUGE tract of TWRA land when it is only open to deer hunting for about 20 days a year. That would be a perfect plan, to me. Plenty of hunting opportunity, more does being killed - balancing the herd a little better, and providing a place for hunters to hunt all season with land opportunities shrinking in Tennessee by the day.

I would pay $100 for a permit to hunt it all season. It is tough to connect on the early bow hunt with a good buck bc they just aren't moving much at all during daylight and other than that we currently have 3 really crowded gun/muzz hunts and as a bow hunter, there is not a really well timed, good hunt. Having all season to hunt, I think guys would be more selective as well and hold out for better bucks. When you only have a couple weekends a season there most people are going to shoot the first legal buck they see. If they won't do this, at least add a bow quota hunt the first couple weeks of November for guys that only bow hunt and want a better chance during the rut.