Self-imposed limit?

There's been much talk about fewer turkeys in some areas, no turkeys in other areas, limits reduced by the State, and delayed start date in certain counties. I'm asking this question in part because of what I saw happen in other states with shrinking flocks...folks just kept bangin'away. In other words folks didn't quit shooting limits of turkeys until there were none left to shoot.

Boll Weevil said:

In other words folks didn't quit shooting limits of turkeys until there were none left to shoot.

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I know some avid & accomplished turkey hunters whose goal is to "limit out" ASAP, so that they are then free to move on to another state, repeat, repeat again, and again. Doesn't seem to matter with them what the limit is, they are hellbent to "get the limit" ASAP, and it matters little via what methods they kill their birds.

To the type hunter I'm talking about, it is remarkably easy to kill a male turkey near daily. If they can't kill 3 Toms (and/or jakes) in 5 straight days, it's mainly because there are few to no male birds left in the areas they can hunt.

I will not take multiple turkeys from the same property. Last year between my daughter and I we shot 6 turkey. That is not common for us but with Covid we got a lot more woods time during the week. We let numerous other turkeys walk. My plan is never to limit out. I go and have fun and shoot what I want. I actually have more fun calling them in and watching my daughter get one. The turkey we killed were between 3 properties that are around 10,000 acres combined.

On my private TN farms, the limit has been to never remove more than 50% of the available toms (jakes are off limits) off a single farm. In other words, if there are 4 birds in that farm early season, we close that farm to any further hunting after 2 are killed.

6 different farms in 4 different counties. 3 bird limit, I'll try to shoot 3.

My farm has turkeys out the ying yang so I'm targeting a limit but there were certainly years when I didn't have many birds and would only kill 1 or 2. This picture of 11 jakes was taken in the fall of 2018 so they're now 4 yr olds. Last year I called in a band of 9 jakes and saw several others smaller groups of 1-3.

I hate it for you folks that are turkeyless.

limit or not I never shoot over what I determine to be ok for the long term population health. If a farm I hunt I only hear or see 1 tom on it then I will not hunt that farm till the following year.

Agree with that REN. My policy has always been, "I'll never kill more than 1/3rd of what I heard." Listening on the first few days of the season if I heard a dozen, I feel perfectly comfortable killing a limit.

REN said:

limit or not I never shoot over what I determine to be ok for the long term population health. If a farm I hunt I only hear or see 1 tom on it then I will not hunt that farm till the following year.

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Same. I will try to kill 3 somewhere in the state. But I have definitely elected not to hunt a particular farm or a particular turkey because there weren't many around. From the looks of things, that will happen again some places this year. If that leaves me with a tag to eat, then it needs to be eaten.

megalomaniac said:

On my private TN farms, the limit has been to never remove more than 50% of the available toms (jakes are off limits) off a single farm. In other words, if there are 4 birds in that farm early season, we close that farm to any further hunting after 2 are killed.

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Commendable, Agree, . . . . . . . . BUT

megalomaniac said:

Just because you only killed two, doesn't mean your neighbor and friends didn't kill 16 next to you.

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Many of us truly are behaving as "Conservationists", and imo should continue . . . . BUT

We may need to think more in terms of just how far Longbeards are ranging during our long turkey season. It is actually quite common to see a particular Longbeard travel over a linear mile just between mid-morning and late afternoon.

One square mile is 640 acres.

In terms of our "average" turkey hunter, how many private acres do you guess he has to hunt?
I'm guessing less than 100 acres?
Does he "share" those acres with any other hunters?
Does that bring it down to 25 to 50 acres?

How many acres is the average "farm"?

I know some good hunters who never take more than a single Tom off any "farm", yet their average farm size is @ 50 acres and they're not the only person hunting some of those farms. What's more, their average farm is bordered by several other similar sized farms, so that there may be a dozen "farms" in only a single square mile (640 acres).

Meanwhile, Mr. Tom is not limiting his range by property lines, and is likely spreading his April time in Tennessee over two or three linear miles.

Just saying, despite our best efforts as Conservationists, the number of statewide season dates and annual limit may make as much or more difference as our trigger restraints.

Can be very frustrating when you limit yourself to one or two Toms on several hundred acres, then find out a single bordering neighbor and his son "legally" checked in 8 birds while hunting over a corn pile in their backyard.

Very well said LBLMan! After the birds are gone, you quickly realize you miss the hunt more then then kill.

Boll Weevil said:

My farm has turkeys out the ying yang so I'm targeting a limit but there were certainly years when I didn't have many birds and would only kill 1 or 2. This picture of 11 jakes was taken in the fall of 2018 so they're now 4 yr olds. Last year I called in a band of 9 jakes and saw several others smaller groups of 1-3.

I hate it for you folks that are turkeyless.

View attachment 69853

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It's amazing how fast you can go from turkeys to turkeyless.

Back in the day (mid 2000's), I would have panicked seeing only 11 jakes in a group, normal was 20-25. The largest group of jakes I've ever called up was 33. But that was after the hunting was going downhill. In the late 90's, we had so many toms on that farm they ran every jake off the place to the less desirable habitat. You NEVER saw a jake in the late 90's, but would work 10-15 toms on an average morning. That same farm had zero birds on it 4 or 5 years ago.

Bottom line, don't get complacent and assume you will always have birds. Enjoy the hunting while it's good, save some for seed, and continue working on habitat and predators for the future.

megalomaniac said:

Bottom line, don't get complacent and assume you will always have birds. Enjoy the hunting while it's good, save some for seed, and continue working on habitat and predators for the future.

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^This. As recently as 2011 it was difficult to even cut a track in the roads on my farm. I worked like a man possessed to improve habitat and knock back predators and slowly but surely build a sustainable flock. At the same time I don't take it for granted I have a few to chase; it's an absolute blessing.

Megalomaniac said:
Bottom line, don't get complacent and assume you will always have birds. Enjoy the hunting while it's good, save some for seed, and continue working on habitat and predators for the future.

Boll Weevil said:

^This. As recently as 2011 it was difficult to even cut a track in the roads on my farm. I worked like a man possessed to improve habitat and knock back predators and slowly but surely build a sustainable flock. At the same time I don't take it for granted I have a few to chase; it's an absolute blessing.

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Of course, I agree with both of you.
Having done the above, I still find the turkey populations to be very fragile, and the factors we can't control may be much more significant than what few we can (at least as individual avid turkey hunter-managers).

I also suspect Mr. Boll Weevil's "farm" may be more like an old "Plantation"?
Just saying, even if you have over a thousand contiguous acres, your local turkey population can still be influenced more by what your neighbors do, and then maybe more by other factors than anything you & your neighbors do.

It is hard for me to imagine that taking any number of mature toms will have a noticeable effect on future turkey populations. One Tom can breed a lot of hens.

I could see where you might have a small amount of 3 year olds next year if you kill all the 2 year olds this year, but as far as population reduction, I have to believe that killing toms isn't making a difference. If we were killing hens, that would be a different story.

We used to have some birds on our land ... 10 years ago.

Now I am lucky to spot one during deer season, due to habitat changes, I'm sure.

Dennis said:

It is hard for me to imagine that taking any number of mature toms will have a noticeable effect on future turkey populations. One Tom can breed a lot of hens.

I could see where you might have a small amount of 3 year olds next year if you kill all the 2 year olds this year, but as far as population reduction, I have to believe that killing toms isn't making a difference. If we were killing hens, that would be a different story.

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There is A LOT of things pertaining to the social hierarchy of toms, that when taking the dominant birds out early, you have in essence reduced the percentages of hens being bred

Dennis said:

It is hard for me to imagine that taking any number of mature toms will have a noticeable effect on future turkey populations. One Tom can breed a lot of hens.

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neighbors bragged about killing 15 toms in the first 3 days of the season (not killing over the limit and not illegal except for their baiting) back in mid 2000's. Remove that many toms 10 days before my hens even start breeding, and yes... it can have a huge negative impact on reproduction.

TheLBLman said:

...
Just saying, even if you have over a thousand contiguous acres, your local turkey population can still be influenced more by what your neighbors do, and then maybe more by other factors than anything you & your neighbors do.

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no kidding. My main farm that used to be a paradise is right at 1000 acres... combination of neighbors slaughtering excess males and TWRA trapping and taking off females (65 hens one winter) and what used to be one of the largest flocks east of the Mississippi was decimated to the point it could not recover.

megalomaniac said:

neighbors bragged about killing 15 toms in the first 3 days of the season (not killing over the limit and not illegal except for their baiting) back in mid 2000's. Remove that many toms 10 days before my hens even start breeding, and yes... it can have a huge negative impact on reproduction.

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It is shocking to see what percentage of TN's spring turkey kill occurs during the season's 1st 9 days.
Yes, it really puts a hurt on the hens' nesting success and how many poults they actually produce, then survive to "x" age.

With fewer Toms (especially fewer of the more experienced "breeders") many hens end up sitting on some non-fertile eggs, and also nesting over a longer time horizon, i.e. many hens starting their nests with more spread out starting dates.

This results in both poorer nesting success and poorer poult survival.
When the hens actually "hatch" fewer eggs, and those "hatching" are spread out over even a few more days (or weeks), we loose much of the benefits of "prey saturation".

Whether is is most deer fawns being born at about the same time, or most baby turkeys being hatched at about the same time, "prey saturation" means there are suddenly so many newborns available, that the predators only kill a small percentage.

A few days to weeks after being born, both deer fawns & baby turkeys are much harder for predators to catch. If that "birthing" is spread over several weeks or months, predators simply kill a much higher percentage of those newborns.

Fewer, sometimes zero, experienced "breeder" Toms early in the season can cause both fewer fertilized eggs, AND greater losses of young chicks to predators. This is similar to the effects of a "trickle" rut in deer, caused by too few bucks to get the breeding done quickly. This issue could be somewhat circumvented by just opening our TN season a week or two later.