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Loop knots

MCO8891 said:
My thought exactly. Flouro shouldn't be used on topwater as it sinks. Also it can get brittle. I would use a mono on top water or straight braid. With a loop knot, mono would probably be best as the braid might slip with a loop knot.
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Can't use straight braid because of abrasions around the submerged rock/ concrete structure I'm fishing topwater. The flouro isn't sinking fast enough to make a difference I don't think, as the bait is getting worked fast.

As far as brittle, that COULD be my problem!!!! Great thought! My leader spool is kept in my tacklebag and not exposed to sunlight, but it is 2 years old. I retie new leader from that spool with FG knot at home every 3rd trip or so on all my rods so the leader itself is always fresh... but the spool I'm getting it from could be the problem. Especially since the problem seems to be getting worse past few months.

Def gonna go buy a new spool of 16lb flouro!
 
megalomaniac said:
Can't use straight braid because of abrasions around the submerged rock/ concrete structure I'm fishing topwater. The flouro isn't sinking fast enough to make a difference I don't think, as the bait is getting worked fast.

As far as brittle, that COULD be my problem!!!! Great thought! My leader spool is kept in my tacklebag and not exposed to sunlight, but it is 2 years old. I retie new leader from that spool with FG knot at home every 3rd trip or so on all my rods so the leader itself is always fresh... but the spool I'm getting it from could be the problem. Especially since the problem seems to be getting worse past few months.

Def gonna go buy a new spool of 16lb flouro!
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I remember a trout trip out west where I started with an old spool of flouro instead of the new one I had with me. After breaking off three straight nice fish I decided to go to the new spool. I didn't pop off any after that. Whether it was the old tippet or me being too hard on the strike wasn't answered, but I have since done a better job of rotating out tippet.
 
megalomaniac said:
Can't use straight braid because of abrasions around the submerged rock/ concrete structure I'm fishing topwater. The flouro isn't sinking fast enough to make a difference I don't think, as the bait is getting worked fast.

As far as brittle, that COULD be my problem!!!! Great thought! My leader spool is kept in my tacklebag and not exposed to sunlight, but it is 2 years old. I retie new leader from that spool with FG knot at home every 3rd trip or so on all my rods so the leader itself is always fresh... but the spool I'm getting it from could be the problem. Especially since the problem seems to be getting worse past few months.

Def gonna go buy a new spool of 16lb flouro!
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could be but i doubt it. flouro is not affect by UV and ages better than mono. one of the biggest problems with flouro is shock resistance. contrary to popular belief flouro WILL stretch, even as much as mono but it doesnt have elasticity like mono. hook and fight a dozen decent fish and it will stretch the line down to a lower break strength usually from the connection up to about a foot above the connection.
 
WTM said:
could be but i doubt it. flouro is not affect by UV and ages better than mono. one of the biggest problems with flouro is shock resistance. contrary to popular belief flouro WILL stretch, even as much as mono but it doesnt have elasticity like mono. hook and fight a dozen decent fish and it will stretch the line down to a lower break strength usually from the connection up to about a foot above the connection.
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makes sense, but line isn't breaking with a direct palomar or clinch knot even after catching 25 or 30 fish. It's just with the loop knot at the eyelet, but after many casts and quite a few fish. It cost me the 23in speck last Friday. Changed to palomar, caught several more big fish with no breaks and only retied once, when I got the braid frayed a bit from a trout getting into the structure before I could horse him out. Flouro leader was fine when I retied.
 
I see what you're saying. It's not the knot, it's the loop rubbing against the eye. Change from a circle split ring to an oval one that's black nickel plated. Can't remember who makes them but I think tackle warehouse has them.
 
megalomaniac said:
makes sense, but line isn't breaking with a direct palomar or clinch knot even after catching 25 or 30 fish. It's just with the loop knot at the eyelet, but after many casts and quite a few fish. It cost me the 23in speck last Friday. Changed to palomar, caught several more big fish with no breaks and only retied once, when I got the braid frayed a bit from a trout getting into the structure before I could horse him out. Flouro leader was fine when I retied.
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has to be rubbing then like xcr suggests. ive never had that happen but i only cast topwater maybe 100 casts early in the day and i use momo for topwater.
 
Its pretty obvious that the best solution is to sit down on the deck after an hour or so, rest your legs, drink some water, and re-tie. Re-tying is about 30 seconds max? I highly suspect your catch rate at the end of the day will be better than powering on through.
 
I usually throw medium driving crankbaits on 10 pound red label flouro. If I don't retie, eventually I will rip off a cast and my crankbait will be sent to the moon. Flouro is great but it does not like to be stressed like WTM is says. It gets stressed from casting too. With a crankbait I am looking for maximum distance and giving it all I got on casts. It is not if its gonna snap the line but when its gonna snap.
 
scn said:
Its pretty obvious that the best solution is to sit down on the deck after an hour or so, rest your legs, drink some water, and re-tie. Re-tying is about 30 seconds max? I highly suspect your catch rate at the end of the day will be better than powering on through.
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Prob so...

But I have ADD too much, when I'm fishing, I'm 100mph. I eat/ drink when running the big motor from spot to spot.

Getting some new leader material, going to go back to palomar knots for topwater and see what happens :)
 
megalomaniac said:
Frigging FG knot failed on a red today. That knot was good for 10 or 12 before it just pulled loose out of the blue.
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I am not a fan of the FG.

For the fish you're catching I'd step up to 25lb leader and I don't think you'll decrease your bites.

There is no sense in downsizing the leader unless you're getting refused consistently.
 
Interesting thread.
I have had similar experiences with Floro. but just thought it was abrasion from rocks etc...
Hmm might have to start retying or swapping out leaders even if they arent showing a lot of wear.
 
Pilchard said:
I am not a fan of the FG.

For the fish you're catching I'd step up to 25lb leader and I don't think you'll decrease your bites.

There is no sense in downsizing the leader unless you're getting refused consistently.
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The only way I can get the FG to hold correctly is if I wear gloves when I cinch it down to really put enough pressure on the knot where it produces enough friction to produce a darkening color to the braid. Without gloves, you will slice your hands before you get that pressure necessary for it to cinch perfectly. That, and I put 24 wraps when Tying.

When done right, it is THE strongest braid to flouro knot, way better than double uni, and a decent bit stronger than Alberto.

This knot had about 750 casts over a trip and a half on it before it failed. I suspect it's the repetitive running through the guides that eventually weakens them?
 
megalomaniac said:
The only way I can get the FG to hold correctly is if I wear gloves when I cinch it down to really put enough pressure on the knot where it produces enough friction to produce a darkening color to the braid. Without gloves, you will slice your hands before you get that pressure necessary for it to cinch perfectly. That, and I put 24 wraps when Tying.

When done right, it is THE strongest braid to flouro knot, way better than double uni, and a decent bit stronger than Alberto.

This knot had about 750 casts over a trip and a half on it before it failed. I suspect it's the repetitive running through the guides that eventually weakens them?
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Think of it this way. Repeated running through the guides is "knocking loose" the shape of the knot. Certain knots only hold well when cinched down tight as it is the cinch that "holds". Other knots its the shape/wrap of the knot that self tightens when pressure is put on it.
To prevent this we would dress our Bimini twists and spider hitch knots with a little clear nail polish. Might work good on the braid to leader knot and as a bonus the knot will slide through the guides easier.
 
hammer33 said:
Think of it this way. Repeated running through the guides is "knocking loose" the shape of the knot. Certain knots only hold well when cinched down tight as it is the cinch that "holds". Other knots its the shape/wrap of the knot that self tightens when pressure is put on it.
To prevent this we would dress our Bimini twists and spider hitch knots with a little clear nail polish. Might work good on the braid to leader knot and as a bonus the knot will slide through the guides easier.
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They make a product called UV KNOT SENSE for this reason. Hardens in seconds when exposed to the sunlight.

I'm sure SCN can fix you up with it.
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I don't use glue but I have watched Dave Whitlock use a simple overhand knot with ZAP A GAP. The knot held always. I don't want to be bothered. I use a loop for most of my streamer/saltwater applications. Mako sharks, peacock bass, tarpon, bass....no more failure than normal. I believe the loop makes me "think" the fly has more action but one year while fishing for peacocks I experimented with regular improved clinch all week. I never felt I was not catching just as many...so who knows???
 
Def going to try the coating/ nail polish/ etc on the FG knot. Unfortunately, I won't get to fish again until December, as it's about time to start deer hunting!
 

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