2013 Harvest Comparison

[Boll Weevil]

Out of curiosity I checked the online harvest record for my county to see how we've fared so far in comparison to years past...yikes!

For the whole state 27,784 have been checked in thus far. We were right at (or well over) 30,000 birds at this time for the last 3 years. For the season total there were 33,789 checked in 2012, 34,026 in 2011, and record 37,000ish birds in 2010.

There's still some time to hunt but I wonder if we'll even come up with the few thousand birds to break 30,000...much less another 10,000 birds to be anywhere near a record.

 

[SEC]

Where can I find this info? Curious about Madison county.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Where can I find this info? Curious about Madison county.

Right here. Put your date range in, pick a critter, and county.

 

[Gravey]

For the past two seasons I haven't seen near as many birds and not sure why. That said I wouldn't mind if they scaled the limit back to 3 if not 2.

 

[Gobblrgttr]

I would be glad to see them bring the limit down as well

 

[Boll Weevil]

For the past two seasons I haven't seen near as many birds and not sure why.

It may likely have more to do with a couple of years of crappy hatches vs. harvest and can be VERY isolated by region. Another thing to consider is the ratio of gobblers to hens in a typical harvest year. The fall harvest (including hens) here on the west side is miniscule and in the spring 1 tom can take care of a herd of hens. With all the gals running around, if they had successful nests...one good hatch could negate years of poor hatches.

Around here, that's just what we got last year. Dang jakes and jennies everywhere (and hopefully makin'biddies every chance they get). Next year could be off the hook!

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Some areas of the state have been going through this for years, to the point your lucky if you even hear a gobble in your county. People have laughed at me, called me a whiner, and told me I didn't know what I was talking. And its always people from different parts of the state who haven't experienced it. I hope it gets better and doesn't happen but with declines like that is say it won't be long before a lot of people get a taste of what I've been talking about.

 

[Boll Weevil]

People have laughed at me, called me a whiner, and told me I didn't know what I was talking. And its always people from different parts of the state who haven't experienced it.

True...and not too much else to add to your comments, Rockhound. We simply MUST manage the resource locally and recognize that it can vary a whole lot from place to place.

 

[SEC]

Look at all the low lying counties there numbers are very low. I myself pretty much only have west TN bottom land to hunt and after the bad hatch in 2010-2011 we have fewer birds than I have seen in 15 years. With a 4 bird limit we never have any carry over birds in other words for the most part the two year old birds get wiped out every year in my area. With a 2 bird limit I cant help but think we would have a few 3 or 4 year old birds to hunt this year instead all we have is a few super jakes doing all the gobbling,strutting and breeding. What I am saying is how can the low lying counties have the same limits as middle TN.

 

[TheLBLman]

Turkey populations seem to vary greatly from year to year within very localized areas within any particular county, even when the turkey population for the county is the opposite of how it may appear to those hunting a localized area within a county.

Some of my personal worst years turkey hunting are often some of the best for the particular county hunting. Some of my personal best years turkey hunting are often some of the worst for the particular county hunting.

I've concluded that turkeys move around more over the course of a year than many hunters think. Where more or less turkeys end up during April (and particularly during the 1st two weekends of turkey season), may have more to do with recent weather patterns and food supply/preferences, plus whether spring is running a little early or late, than the actual turkey population for a county.

This year, spring has been late, and gobbler groups have been later than usual in breaking up and scattering across more vast areas of a county. On April 23, 2013, I walked up on a gobbler group of at least 7 birds --- that's something I more typically see in mid to late March.

My point is that when males are still in bachelor groups, they can't be scattered across as much territory, say within a 5 to 10 square-mile area. Take your favorite "spot" to turkey hunt. Wherever that is, if you place yourself in the middle of an area that's 2 miles in every direction, that's 16 square miles of territory (if 4 miles long x 4 miles wide). If there were only 7 longbeards within those 16 square miles, imagine your odds of seeing one if they were all within a single one square instead of being scattered over many. On the other hand, should your favorite "spot" be within that square mile that the entire group of gobblers is still hanging out . . . . . you may be seeing lots of gobblers.

This is just my opinion, so it is what it is.
I think this year's statewide turkey harvest is lower (so far, compared to prior years) mainly because of less turkey hunting. In particular, the intensity of hunters hunting collectively is often guided by their first outing or two for the season. If they are disappointed, they may not go hunting any more until the next year. If they see or hear something that excites them, they may hunt a lot more and a lot harder during the next few weeks after the opening weekend.

Note that in most areas the juvenile (jake) harvest is typically running between 10 and 25% of the spring turkey harvest. We wouldn't have that high of a carry-over of birds becoming longbeards each year if we were wiping out most of the males each spring.

I would be glad to see them bring the limit down as well

Again, just my personal opinion, but I also wish the spring limit were no more than 3, and would even prefer 2 rather than the current 4. I believe more hunters would enjoy better quality turkey hunting (hear more gobbling, see more longbeards, and more hunters would kill one or two), for some of the same reasons I favor a 2-buck deer limit over an 11-buck deer limit.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Need units, been saying it for years.

 

[Bone Collector]

[/quote] This is just my opinion, so it is what it is.
I think this year's statewide turkey harvest is lower (so far, compared to prior years) mainly because of less turkey hunting. In particular, the intensity of hunters hunting collectively is often guided by their first outing or two for the season. If they are disappointed, they may not go hunting any more until the next year. If they see or hear something that excites them, they may hunt a lot more and a lot harder during the next few weeks after the opening weekend.

I think that has a lot to do with it too. I can say this that Mid TN continues to kill birds. I looked at the counties that I hunt or could feasibly hunt and they are pretty close to keeping pace with last year, or have already surpassed, or will surpass last years harvest totals.

I also think the late spring, as well as poor hatches have had some effect, but like others said that be corrected with one good hatch.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Regarding limits, I think we hunters aren't always the best managers of the resource. Using GA as an example, years ago the state set the statewide anterless limit at 10 does to allow flexibilty in managing herds locally. There are now areas where you'd be hard-pressed to even cut a track and the state is considering ways of addressing the population decline including shortened season length and modified doe days. Just because the state says one CAN legally kill 10 does doesn't mean one SHOULD.

Another recent example is AR; they've reduced both the length of their turkey season and bag limits several times over the past few years. Every time we pull the trigger we are making a management decision, but sometimes we don't see it that way.

Mr. Parrish: Good point about a hunter's experience early in the season having some impact on whether they continue hunting as the season goes on. I hadn't considered this aspect...in an off year folks probably hang it up earlier in the season.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Need units, been saying it for years.

This is done in the fall easily enough by county...wonder if it's ever been considered for spring?

 

[woodsman87]

Sorry for this long read, but I think it makes alot of sense. Most of you probably already know this, but read this and think about it.

I have been saying it for a few years now, in southern mid TN, do not know if it is my spots in particular because I am unlucky or if it is everybody, but our turkey population is not what it once was.

Hear in Giles county, south of Pulaski, has been getting worse since 2007. Now I have heard north of Pulaski all the way to Lewisburg and all around Maury county and in the mid-state is getting higher. I also hunt Lincoln county, northeast of Fayetteville quite a lot, and although I think it is good, it isn't what it once was. I have also hunted places in Lawrence and Wayne counties. It isn't what it once was.

I am not whining, but I know for a fact it has gotten worse on the properties that I hunt since the year 2007. Also hunt alot in north central AL right on the line, and it has gone down since 2007 as well.

I blame all of it on consecutuvie poor hatches. Think about it, one poor hatch has a long term effect because a bad hatch means fewer turkeys to hacth the next spring and so on. When we have had several bad hatches, it just gets worse upon getting worse, if you understand what I am saying. A good hatch, can make everything get better, and on top of that get better. It is obvious without much explanation.

I think the question is why are we having these bad hatches? I am not a biologist so I don't research this so I don't know an answer but I have ideas. Has it been wet springs? Has it been varmints such as possums skunks and coons? Has it been the newly migrated in armidillos? Has it been the infestation of illegal feral hogs? Is it increased predator hunting? Increased shooting of coyotes makes the racoon and such population rise, therefore more egg getters.

Obviously, shooting less gobblers a year will help the population, but I think it would be minimal. One gobbler can breed many, many hens.

The best thing I know to do is to shoot less hens during the fall. Hens mortality rate is already almost that of gobblers anyways. Since they nest on the ground, they are of course very prone to getting ate by something. Also, hay cutting and bush hogging kill many. I understand people cutting the hay because they have certain timing in which they must get it done. But it is sad to see somebody bushhogging during April-June.

I don't have the answer to anything. But I think these are some of reasons why it has gone done in my neck of the woods and many of yours as well.

 

[woodsman87]

I can agree with units, but it would have to be mini units. I think that would be too hard to do, because they flucuate so much. I am very familiar with Giles county hunting, and in the northern half of the county things are great, while the southern half they are poor. I think it is all cyclical, and I believe that one day it may be reversed. It just seems to me that on my concentrated spots have been very unlucky with poor hatches.

I could talk about this for days.

 

[muddyboots]

Been saying this for 5 years.

 

[woodsman87]

Some areas of the state have been going through this for years, to the point your lucky if you even hear a gobble in your county. People have laughed at me, called me a whiner, and told me I didn't know what I was talking. And its always people from different parts of the state who haven't experienced it. I hope it gets better and doesn't happen but with declines like that is say it won't be long before a lot of people get a taste of what I've been talking about.

You and I are on the same page 100%. I been observing it since 2007 things have gotten worse. I see that you hunt Lawrence County, while I hunt in Southern Giles mostly. Not familiar with your area much, but I have heard other Lawrence hunters say that it is worse than the past. I know for sure south Giles is.

 

[TheLBLman]

Obviously, shooting less gobblers a year will help the population, but I think it would be minimal. One gobbler can breed many, many hens.

While this is technically correct, it says little about the composition of the flock, individual bird health, stress on young males, etc.

We could kill off every buck deer each deer season, and this would have very little effect on the ongoing number of deer. Deer herd would be a lot more females than males, and most of the males would be young.

Similarly, we could kill every single longbeard each Spring, and the number of turkeys on-going would change little from year to year. But how many Toms would we have over 2 years of age?

I know our statewide turkey flock is not in bad health, and we may have more 3-yr-old and older Toms now than in times past. BUT . . . . . . I believe we are killing off most of the 2-year-old Toms each Spring . . . . . . just as we're killing off most of the buck deer each fall that are above-averaged-antlered 2 1/2's. Just as it's become "easy" for many hunters to pass up yearling bucks, it's become "easy" for many hunters to pass up jakes.

Whether we have more 3-yr-old or older Toms now than in times past is not the issue here: The issue is we could be providing more hunters with higher quality turkey hunting if we had a lower limit during the Spring. And IMO, totally doing away with the fall turkey hunting (yes, I know, many of those turkeys killed in the fall wouldn't live until Spring, but some would).

 

[woodsman87]

Obviously, shooting less gobblers a year will help the population, but I think it would be minimal. One gobbler can breed many, many hens.

While this is technically correct, it says little about the composition of the flock, individual bird health, stress on young males, etc.

We could kill off every buck deer each deer season, and this would have very little effect on the ongoing number of deer. Deer herd would be a lot more females than males, and most of the males would be young.

Similarly, we could kill every single longbeard each Spring, and the number of turkeys on-going would change little from year to year. But how many Toms would we have over 2 years of age?

I know our statewide turkey flock is not in bad health, and we may have more 3-yr-old and older Toms now than in times past. BUT . . . . . . I believe we are killing off most of the 2-year-old Toms each Spring . . . . . . just as we're killing off most of the buck deer each fall that are above-averaged-antlered 2 1/2's. Just as it's become "easy" for many hunters to pass up yearling bucks, it's become "easy" for many hunters to pass up jakes.

Whether we have more 3-yr-old or older Toms now than in times past is not the issue here: The issue is we could be providing more hunters with higher quality turkey hunting if we had a lower limit during the Spring. And IMO, totally doing away with the fall turkey hunting (yes, I know, many of those turkeys killed in the fall wouldn't live until Spring, but some would).

I agree Wes, flock composition would get better. But still, hens I believe suffer higher mortality than gobblers because they nest on the ground. Everything in the world tries to eat the hen, the eggs, and the poults. Bush-hogging the wrong time a year takes its toll on them.

I don't think they should do away with fall turkey hunting, but shooting up to six hens in a county in a day, then going to the next county in the same day and killing three more, then waking up in the morning and killing 6 hens in the county north of you, I mean that is some dang turkey clean up right there. You hear the argument that some die anyways, well some don't die either. I just don't understand it. I couldn't shoot a hen on purpose unless it was a life or death situatuion for me.