2013 Harvest Comparison

I agree that units would be nice, but I think it would be impossible to do units because where I am from, turkeys shift their ranges with the seasons. Everybody should know that.

On my farm in Giles county, they are no where to be found during the fall, but then by mid march we start seeing gobbler bunches and hens. Then during mid summer, we just see hens with their poults, and gobblers are gone. By September, the hens and poults have moved off to who knows where. Void of turkeys pretty much from september-end of february.

The people doing the research on how to split up the units would have to measure and observe very closely. Each area can be drastically difficult. Northern Giles County is some of the best hunting in the world, while the southern portion is going down yearly. It wouldn't be very feasible to make units because of the drastic differences within the same counties, the migration of birds, and with the research it would take to create these units.

I will stand by this statement, lowering the bag limit will of course save a few gobblers, but it will have a minimal effect on the overall grand scheme of things. 1 gobbler can breed as many hens as he finds, and will do so. That is why at the first of the year they weight 21-22 lbs on average then weigh 17-19lbs by the end of the year.

It is all about habitat management, nesting areas specifically!
 
Boll Weevil said:
Spurhunter said:
If you own the farm and only family hunts it, maybe.
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Since I own my own place...this is the context in which I was speaking. Dad, brother, and I can make a mutual decision and stick with it. Clubs, leases, and public land are a whole different discussion.
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It also of course depends on how big it is, and if, or how much, pressure on the neighbors.
 
There is a good study that shows some serious detrimental effects to turkey populations when you dont leave something like 30% of adult gobblers in the population. You cant just whack all the 2 yr olds or better and expect to have much the next year.And I do think that happens in more places than I would like to think.
 
smstone22 said:
There is a good study that shows some serious detrimental effects to turkey populations when you dont leave something like 30% of adult gobblers in the population. You cant just whack all the 2 yr olds or better and expect to have much the next year.And I do think that happens in more places than I would like to think.
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I can promise you that is what happens around here. A couple of bad hatches and now all we are hearing are crickets chirping.
 
Scud said:
I didn't see anyone mention that the numbers may be down due to the new check in procedures.
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I do know places like Lawrence County has some serious issues with their turkey population, but this has been ongoing for year. I wouldn't think that it would have a big effect when comparing with last years harvest numbers. I do think that with the new check-in procedures, a lot of turkeys arent being checked in. I'm willing to bet the deer harvest numbers will drop this year also.
 
Question for those that are hearing and seeing fewer birds: Has the landscape changed much in/around the areas you hunt over the last 6 years or so? Has there been much large scale timber logging, large tracts being subdivided, home building activity, tillable ground converted to CRP, or other significant changes in land-use? Anyone in an area with lots of poultry houses where litter/manure is now being spread as fertilizer (and it wasn't in the past)?
 
jar said:
Why is it we TN guys think we deserve such generous limits and length of our hunting season. I know TWRA has their reasons for being so generous with our Turkey and Deer but I wish they were more conservative. As far as landowners realizing they set lower limits for their property it only takes one landowner to affect a large chunk of land in a negative way. My neighbor down the road killed 7 toms last year between him and his kids this year 2 and not hearing much.
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I agree 100 percent
 
smstone22 said:
There is a good study that shows some serious detrimental effects to turkey populations when you dont leave something like 30% of adult gobblers in the population.
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I'd be very interested in reading; do you know where I might find this study?
 
Boll Weevil said:
smstone22 said:
There is a good study that shows some serious detrimental effects to turkey populations when you dont leave something like 30% of adult gobblers in the population.
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I'd be very interested in reading; do you know where I might find this study?
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I used to have it saved but dont any more, I think out of Missouri. Ill hunt for it when I get some time.
 
Boll Weevil said:
Anyone in an area with lots of poultry houses where litter/manure is now being spread as fertilizer (and it wasn't in the past)?
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I'd heard from second hand sources that TWRA was investigating the effects of the chicken manure being spread on the fields in Lawrence County. I think they were looking into it causing liver damage. My FIL would spread it on his farm and several others in Lawrence County. It sure made for some fun coyote hunting. They would run around slurping up chicken bones like a vacuum cleaner. It wasn't uncommon to see a dozen of them on a morning's hunt. He has quit using chicken litter in the past couple years.
 
Here you are Boll Weevil. LOADS of info here, you have to be really interested in it to read it all. It is when harvest exceeds 30% of the male population in Spring, I said it backwards initially I think. At a 60% spring harvest of males, they estimate no adult males will survive a Spring season in 8 of 40 years. This is due to the very high natural mortality rate of turkeys. If every turkey hunter was serious abotu conserving the population, they would clamoring for some form of reduced hunting. I like the 4 bird limit obviously but would love to see it put into units so some areas werent so hard hit. Heck it wouldnt really bother me if they just simply reduced it statewide because I know they like simple, but I would at least like the option of doing some travel to get the 4.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3830761?seq=26
 
Boll Weevil said:
Question for those that are hearing and seeing fewer birds: Has the landscape changed much in/around the areas you hunt over the last 6 years or so? Has there been much large scale timber logging, large tracts being subdivided, home building activity, tillable ground converted to CRP, or other significant changes in land-use? Anyone in an area with lots of poultry houses where litter/manure is now being spread as fertilizer (and it wasn't in the past)?
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No they haven't in my spots. I hunt very low populated areas, and in the 90s early 2000s you saw turkeys in fields and pastures everyday.

I don't know if it is chicken litter, I have heard it is bad for turkeys, could possibly be the problem. I know with fertilizer prices very high, and chicken litter still cheap, could be what happened.
I still think more than anything else there has just been several consecutive bad hatches in these areas.
 
smstone22 said:
Here you are Boll Weevil. LOADS of info here, you have to be really interested in it to read it all. It is when harvest exceeds 30% of the male population in Spring, I said it backwards initially I think. At a 60% spring harvest of males, they estimate no adult males will survive a Spring season in 8 of 40 years. This is due to the very high natural mortality rate of turkeys. If every turkey hunter was serious abotu conserving the population, they would clamoring for some form of reduced hunting. I like the 4 bird limit obviously but would love to see it put into units so some areas werent so hard hit. Heck it wouldnt really bother me if they just simply reduced it statewide because I know they like simple, but I would at least like the option of doing some travel to get the 4.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3830761?seq=26
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I just read the abstract and really liked it. It looks like we need to lower harvest limits in the southern-midstate ( Lincon, Giles, Lawrence, Wayne) And I believe for the most part this should south of Highway 64.
If the TWRA does decide to go to units, I think this should be one. Limit of 3 maybe 2 gobblers. And combine fall and spring into one season, or just do away with the fall season all together.
I do not agree with all the hen killing we have in some of these areas, and I think it should be abandonded statewide.

The units also may need to be updated, or changed, anually.

I am for anything that will increase the quality of turkey hunting. I want it to be like it once was.

Another point is feeding corn to wildlife. I do not do so, because I don't think it helps for one thing, but there was a thread on the serious deer forum last week about some "deer corn" that was recalled due to toxic chemicals. I wonder if that has had anyhting to do with it, since game feeders and gettting pictures on game cameras have become such a cool thing to do the past about 10 years.
Maybe feeding corn should be outlawed completely?
 
Thanks very much for sending the link.

In the past, I had always felt ok removing about "a 1/3rd of what I heard" as a general rule. If during my spring scouting/listening I heard 8 or 9 gobblers leading up the season I felt ok setting a target of 3 for that property. That rule has at least kept me in the birds year after year regardless of hatch success.

Based upon my research, average recruitment has fallen to only about 2 poults per hen. If they are 50% jakes, I need at least 4 hens to raise a clutch successfully and replace what I killed every year. Throw in a bobcat, yote, neighboring property harvest, disease, or other mortality factors and it's esy to see why it doesn't always make sense for me to kill 4 on my place each and every year. It's just not sustainable.

Fortunately last year's bumper crop of poults is really going to help, but there are some other things I'm doing from a habitat managet perspective to hopefully benefit recruitment and survival. I'll try and find that research I reviewed recently and post a link here.
 
Fortunately last year's bumper crop of poults is really going to help, but there are some other things I'm doing from a habitat managet perspective to hopefully benefit recruitment and survival. [/quote]

If you dont mind, how do you know that it was a good hatch year? The answer maybe obvious, "I see alot of poults." The reason why I ask is because I very rarely see poults. I always think that a few hens next on my property, and even though I never see them doesn't mean they aren't there. I am not one to go walking through the fields and woods during the summer time. But just driving down the road in general, I do not see any. I live in one of the parts that is having the severe decline, and I wonder if that has anything to do with me never seeing any poults, becuase there are none to see? I don't run game cameras enough to see how many I have either.

I don't really base my hatches on how many I see, I just see what kinda weather we had during the hatching time, late May-Mid June is when I think most hatch in my areas. Even though I have still only saw few poults, I estimated last spring to have a good hatch because it was dry during the late spring and early summer.
I am no biologist, I may be totally wrong.
 
Boll Weevil said:
Thanks very much for sending the link.

In the past, I had always felt ok removing about "a 1/3rd of what I heard" as a general rule. If during my spring scouting/listening I heard 8 or 9 gobblers leading up the season I felt ok setting a target of 3 for that property. That rule has at least kept me in the birds year after year regardless of hatch success.

Fortunately last year's bumper crop of poults is really going to help, but there are some other things I'm doing from a habitat managet perspective to hopefully benefit recruitment and survival.
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Good deal, thats pretty well what I do for my property as well. When I just had 1-2 gobblers there in the Spring, I didnt take any. When it started getting over 3, I started taking 1 a year for a couple of years. The population just kept growing, and this year I had about 8 gobblers and several jakes running around pretty regular. I took 2 of those. And Im in a county with a low harvest, I see people on here complaining alot about Lawrence Co., heck my county is like a 100 birds behind them! lol But you can build a good population, just with proper management.
 
woodsman87 said:
If you dont mind, how do you know that it was a good hatch year?
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Actual sightings, camera survey, and when I can get my hands on it...research data to compare against. I saw more little poults (a few weeks old) last year than I ever have. Cameras all summer/fall showed survival was really great. I saw (and passed on) 27 jakes this spring so now know that the cycle to maturity is almost complete. I also can't help but feel my effort to improve habitat and manage harvest is helping that process.

Here's some of the brood surveys research to which I was referring. Look at the trend line on the bottom of page 2. Now maybe some of that is simply an indicator of a flock that is reaching the state's carrying capacity...which is a very natural progression. But year after year after year + other mortality factors; it's no surprise where we end up unless some part of the equation is altered.
 

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