2013 Harvest Comparison

[woodsman87]

If you dont mind, how do you know that it was a good hatch year?

Actual sightings, camera survey, and when I can get my hands on it...research data to compare against. I saw more little poults (a few weeks old) last year than I ever have. Cameras all summer/fall showed survival was really great. I saw (and passed on) 27 jakes this spring so now know that the cycle to maturity is almost complete. I also can't help but feel my effort to improve habitat and manage harvest is helping that process.

Here's one of the articles I was referring to on through 2012. brood surveys Look at the trend line on the bottom of page 2. Now maybe some of that is simply an indicator of a flock that is reaching the state's carrying capacity...which is a very natural progression. But year after year after year + other mortality factors; it's no surprise where we end up unless some part of the equation is altered.

Yes I have read that report actually, very interesting, but also alot of information to take in.
I haven't seen the first jake in Giles County Tennessee all season. I do not remember the last small poult I have seen, or fall flock of a few big hens with their several smaller ones.

Now, about the information on page 2. I know that carrying capacity is a real factor, but just look at all the southern mid state from the 90s through mid 2000s. Look how high the numbers where then. Surely the carrying capacity should be somewhere close to what the population actually once was?

I can think of a few other things on why there "could" only be 2 poults per hen.
1. We used to not have wild hogs around here.
2. We used to not have armidillos around here.
3. We used to not have fireants.
4. The months of April/May, have been wetter than past history, with the main exception of 2012.
5. Possums, skunks, and racooons, maybe having a major impact. People no longer trap much, therefore these animals populate. Also, with the increased popularity of predator hunting may have more of a negative effect on turkeys than positive. I believe that shooting coyotes causes these racoons and such populations to increase. Coyotes/bobcats are of little threat to adult birds, except for nesting hens. The animals you gotta watch out for are the nest eaters.
6. Feeding corn for wildlife. A week ago on the serious deer forum, a thread came up about alfatoxins in "wildlife feed corn"

This is my opinion on some of these things, and although I am not a turkey biologist, I love the bird and study them alot. I believe that these problems may be some of the causes of turkey decline.

 

[TheLBLman]

Not that this has much to do with the 2013 harvest (beyond eliminating a weekend of turkey-hunting opportunity), but in some mid-to-northern Middle TN counties, we just had a flash flood that surely wiped out a lot of turkey nests. In certain locations, it was worse flooding than anyone can ever remember. These areas may have a set-back comparable to what resulted from the West TN flooding a couple years ago (the one that submerged President's Island WMA).

Just on a half-mile stretch of one creek, I had witnessed the nesting locations of three different hens, all of which had their nests washed away on April 27. Most years, this particular creek never overflows its banks, maybe happens once every 3 years, but even then, commonly not when turkeys are nesting.

This flooding will have some adverse effects on the turkey population, particularly next year's if there's poor nesting success this year.

 

[woodsman87]

Not that this has much to do with the 2013 harvest (beyond eliminating a weekend of turkey-hunting opportunity), but in some mid-to-northern Middle TN counties, we just had a flash flood that surely wiped out a lot of turkey nests. In certain locations, it was worse flooding than anyone can ever remember. These areas may have a set-back comparable to what resulted from the West TN flooding a couple years ago (the one that submerged President's Island WMA).

Just on a half-mile stretch of one creek, I had witnessed the nesting locations of three different hens, all of which had their nests washed away on April 27. Most years, this particular creek never overflows its banks, maybe happens once every 3 years, but even then, commonly not when turkeys are nesting.

This flooding will have some adverse effects on the turkey population, particularly next year's if there's poor nesting success this year.

I wonder how many turkey nest were destroyed since the the down pours certain areas have had since Saturday?

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Question for those that are hearing and seeing fewer birds: Has the landscape changed much in/around the areas you hunt over the last 6 years or so? Has there been much large scale timber logging, large tracts being subdivided, home building activity, tillable ground converted to CRP, or other significant changes in land-use? Anyone in an area with lots of poultry houses where litter/manure is now being spread as fertilizer (and it wasn't in the past)?

Everything the same as it has always been except for 1 chicken barn

 

[BowGuy84]

There is a good study that shows some serious detrimental effects to turkey populations when you dont leave something like 30% of adult gobblers in the population. You cant just whack all the 2 yr olds or better and expect to have much the next year.And I do think that happens in more places than I would like to think.

I'm pretty sure I did this on a property in Jefferson Co., KY this year. I know there are probably a couple in and aboust the area but after killed the 2 known gobbling birds (1 I called in for a kid), I didn't hear a gobble the rest of the season.

 

[AT Hiker]

Sounds like limits aren't the problem if too many people are hunting the same farm. Maybe the hunters and landowners need to set their own limits. Even with a 2 bird limit you could have 5 guys potentially kill 10 birds off a 100 acre farm for example. I know of one farm in chapel hill that doesn't have many hunters and has tons of acres and is covered in birds. I killed 4 turkeys (tagged out) this year and last spring. Three last spring were public and all four this year were public. I'm not the best hunter, we just have good turkey hunting here. I also killed 6 birds on public last fall. That's on land shared with a lot of other hunters. In counties with low turkey populations maybe the limit should be lowered, like the deer hunting units, but where the population of turkey is booming, I like the generous 4 bird limit and it ain't hurting the hunting here.

Like I said, explaining logic to someone can be difficult at times. If TWRA says they can kill 4, then they can...but it is likely not the best for the area. You have experienced spectacular years it seems, congrats too! But do not expect it to stay that way, turkeys are sensitive and one bad hatch year and no bag limit change can result in some serious decline in a quality hunt. In my opinion, 2 turkeys is enough...I would also like to see a shortened season for peak gobbeling quality reasons (this is just a preference).

 

[Spurhunter]

Sounds like limits aren't the problem if too many people are hunting the same farm. Maybe the hunters and landowners need to set their own limits. Even with a 2 bird limit you could have 5 guys potentially kill 10 birds off a 100 acre farm for example. I know of one farm in chapel hill that doesn't have many hunters and has tons of acres and is covered in birds. I killed 4 turkeys (tagged out) this year and last spring. Three last spring were public and all four this year were public. I'm not the best hunter, we just have good turkey hunting here. I also killed 6 birds on public last fall. That's on land shared with a lot of other hunters. In counties with low turkey populations maybe the limit should be lowered, like the deer hunting units, but where the population of turkey is booming, I like the generous 4 bird limit and it ain't hurting the hunting here.

Like I said, explaining logic to someone can be difficult at times. If TWRA says they can kill 4, then they can...but it is likely not the best for the area. You have experienced spectacular years it seems, congrats too! But do not expect it to stay that way, turkeys are sensitive and one bad hatch year and no bag limit change can result in some serious decline in a quality hunt. In my opinion, 2 turkeys is enough...I would also like to see a shortened season for peak gobbeling quality reasons (this is just a preference).

Not to mention the Maury County birds are going to get pressured to death next year. I have heard numerous guys out of turkey poor counties in West TN talking about hunting Maury County next year where there are kamikaze birds ready to embark on a suicide mission in plentiful numbers (gotta love the internet).

The same thing happened in Copiah County MS years ago. It was a turkey mecca and because of that everybody wanted to hunt there. The birds got so much pressure from all over the state it is just an average county even now. The surplus may not last forever. Then, when the guys that whack hens 6 a day start wondering what happened they will only have themselves (and the ridiculous regulations) to blame.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Sounds like limits aren't the problem if too many people are hunting the same farm. Maybe the hunters and landowners need to set their own limits. Even with a 2 bird limit you could have 5 guys potentially kill 10 birds off a 100 acre farm for example. I know of one farm in chapel hill that doesn't have many hunters and has tons of acres and is covered in birds. I killed 4 turkeys (tagged out) this year and last spring. Three last spring were public and all four this year were public. I'm not the best hunter, we just have good turkey hunting here. I also killed 6 birds on public last fall. That's on land shared with a lot of other hunters. In counties with low turkey populations maybe the limit should be lowered, like the deer hunting units, but where the population of turkey is booming, I like the generous 4 bird limit and it ain't hurting the hunting here.

Like I said, explaining logic to someone can be difficult at times. If TWRA says they can kill 4, then they can...but it is likely not the best for the area. You have experienced spectacular years it seems, congrats too! But do not expect it to stay that way, turkeys are sensitive and one bad hatch year and no bag limit change can result in some serious decline in a quality hunt. In my opinion, 2 turkeys is enough...I would also like to see a shortened season for peak gobbeling quality reasons (this is just a preference).

Not to mention the Maury County birds are going to get pressured to death next year. I have heard numerous guys out of turkey poor counties in West TN talking about hunting Maury County next year where there are kamikaze birds ready to embark on a suicide mission in plentiful numbers (gotta love the internet).

The same thing happened in Copiah County MS years ago. It was a turkey mecca and because of that everybody wanted to hunt there. The birds got so much pressure from all over the state it is just an average county even now. The surplus may not last forever. Then, when the guys that whack hens 6 a day start wondering what happened they will only have themselves (and the ridiculous regulations) to blame.

Your dead on spur hunter, people tell way to much on the net

 

[MRUTVOL]

There can be many factors that contribute to less birds from time to time. The one ,and I consider a major hit to the turkey populations in some areas, is the harvesting or cutting of hay during the peak of nesting time. Last year due to the lack of rain in some areas hay cutting was late and the birds were able to hatch a majority of their eggs. In a normal year such as this the hay cutting is already starting in some areas and there are numerous nest destroyed in the process. I have heard several farmers talk about all the nest they wipe out while cutting hay. To me this is the one biggest man-made causes of flock reductions in some areas. I know where I hunt in the river bottoms there are a lot of nest taken out.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Cumberland Countians.... What in the world is going on over there? 2012 harvest of 310 birds, 2013 harvest of 197 birds. 36% drop in 1 year!

 

[Grizzly Johnson]

No need to worry about units.... just set the limit at 2 male birds per season, no hens at all.... leave the length the same to allow for hunter schedules or poor hunting conditions to be worked around.

The extra birds in some areas of the state should eventually "migrate" to the less populated areas naturally or by pressure.

 

[catman529]

No need to worry about units.... just set the limit at 2 male birds per season, no hens at all.... leave the length the same to allow for hunter schedules or poor hunting conditions to be worked around.

The extra birds in some areas of the state should eventually "migrate" to the less populated areas naturally or by pressure.

why would they migrate when they have all the horse and cow feed they want? When they become nuisance they will need to be killed more including the hens. I would much rather see units since different areas of the state vary so much.

 

[Grizzly Johnson]

No need to worry about units.... just set the limit at 2 male birds per season, no hens at all.... leave the length the same to allow for hunter schedules or poor hunting conditions to be worked around.

The extra birds in some areas of the state should eventually "migrate" to the less populated areas naturally or by pressure.

why would they migrate when they have all the horse and cow feed they want? When they become nuisance they will need to be killed more including the hens. I would much rather see units since different areas of the state vary so much.

I use the term "migrate" loosly.... as the numbers expand, their range should expand as well.... I guess we could pay higher license fees to fund TWRA to catch birds from higher populated areas and relocate them to less populated areas..... if that suited you better. Not all birds have those nice horse and cow farms to call home..... I can see deer being a "nuisance" but not a turkey, they have a broad range of foods which include many type bugs that most people call pests.

 

[catman529]

Weren't they saying in the other thread that a very low percentage of hunters kill more than 2 birds? I don't see the point in lowering the limit in the spring unless we got an explosion of out of state hunters or something...I still say units would work best, why wouldn't they?

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

When it come to the point that they are to crowded they will migrate, those of you who dont experience what the ones here are experiencing do not understand what we are going through. I have about 10,000 accessible acres of those pretty cow, and horse pastures as well as hardwoods pines and crop fields here in Lawrence county. On that 10,000 acres there are not enough turkeys for 2 people to tag out on.

Yea I'd say we have a problem.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

I heard 4 birds in LC this year, a big rise from the last 4 years

 

[catman529]

When it come to the point that they are to crowded they will migrate, those of you who dont experience what the ones here are experiencing do not understand what we are going through. I have about 10,000 accessible acres of those pretty cow, and horse pastures as well as hardwoods pines and crop fields here in Lawrence county. On that 10,000 acres there are not enough turkeys for 2 people to tag out on.

Yea I'd say we have a problem.

it's definitely weird, I hope they figure out the cause of the decline in some areas. What are your theories on the cause?

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

I personally think its something to do with pesticide or fertilizer, we found some doves in a field dead a couple years ago full of grain and some twra officers sent them off but we haven't heard nothing of it. I know that first hand.

My cousin is friends with a guy in south Giles county, he has martin gourds. Every spring and summer he has dozens of martins.

The farmers of the crop field behind his house sprayed the field a couple weeks ago and he said he picked up dead birds from his yard for a day. They would get so weak they couldn't fly and eventually die.

I have no reason to doubt my cousin, but I dont know this first hand.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Weren't they saying in the other thread that a very low percentage of hunters kill more than 2 birds?

One perspective on why this is the case is the lack of opportunity to kill any more than 1 or 2. Can't kill what's not there. When a population gets "dangerously low" each and every time a hunter pulls the trigger it becomes a more critical "management decision." I know folks (myself included) that actually laid off the trigger this spring because they felt it wasn't good for the local flock.

One could argue that hunters will quit shooting...when there's nothing else to shoot.

 

[TheLBLman]

Weren't they saying in the other thread that a very low percentage of hunters kill more than 2 birds?

I know folks (myself included) that actually laid off the trigger this spring because they felt it wasn't good for the local flock.

One could argue that hunters will quit shooting...when there's nothing else to shoot.

x 2

It should also be noted that many locales will have hunters whose total focus is "getting the limit".

I remember a somewhat similar scenario among hunter mindsets doing a lot of quail hunting back in the 70's in West TN. Some hunters were more "conservation" minded, trying to kill only a few birds from each covey of quail. Other hunters bragged about "mopping them up", decimating every last bird. Eventually, there were too few quail to hunt in most of these areas, and most people quit quail hunting.