2013 Harvest Comparison

[TheLBLman]

What if we've gotten to a point where the number of hunters and our effectiveness in hammering through that "surplus" is much faster than it used to be? But, since the season is still open and we haven't reached our limit yet, we keep right on bangin'away...well beyond the surplus. We're cutting into our "seed stock" year after year and although it's only a little at a time, 5-10 years later there's an obvious reduction in available stock to reproduce the next surplus.

In the case of spring hunting (male birds only), we "shouldn't" be having that much effect on the ongoing number of birds. But we may be having an adverse effect on the "flock" dynamics, i.e. too few older male birds with the survivors being afraid to gobble. Also, the more humans are out "stirring around" where turkeys are trying to nest and do their stuff, the more we make them more vulnerable to other predators.

It may be that a shorter season with a lower limit possibly contributes more to both nesting success and hunter success than previously thought.

But all those other factors probably matter much, much more.
Does Kentucky have a fall turkey season?

 

[Feedman]

Kentucky does have a fall turkey season. 4 bird limit( 2 with a bow and 2 with a gun) only one male bird in the fall with a beard over 3 inches.

 

[Feedman]

Found this article today on Tennessee proposed hunting seasons for 2013-2014. Looks like some of the counties will have lower number of birds allowed.

Hunting Seasons For 2013-14 to Be Set at May�s Commission Meeting
Wednesday, May 22, 2013 | 12:51 pm
NASHVILLE --- The Tennessee Fish and Wildlife Resources Commission will establish the state�s 2013-14 hunting seasons at its May 30-31 (Thursday-Friday) meeting at the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency Ray Bell Region II Building.

TWRA officials previewed their recommendations for the 2013-14 hunting and trapping seasons at the commission�s April meeting that was held in Paris. Review of the recommendations and information on public comment received since the preview was made will be provided during Thursday�s committee meeting.

Among the recommendations by Agency staff at the April meeting involved white-tailed deer hunting. Crockett County in West Tennessee is proposed to be moved to Unit L. Numerous counties in units A and B were recommended for increases in antlerless opportunities.

Surveys continue to indicate the black bear population is stable and the state is coming off a year of another successful harvest. Last year, the commission approved TWRA�s proposal to increase the number of bear hunting opportunities.

For 2013-14 in regard to the bear hunting seasons, there were minimal changes proposed. To avoid a conflict with the 2013 Thanksgiving holiday, the main bear gun season is proposed to open on Friday, Nov. 29 rather than Thursday.

During fall turkey season, several counties in southern Middle Tennessee would have their bag limits reduced. The bag limits in Giles, Wayne, and Lawrence would be one while Lincoln County would be three. The fall turkey counties included three expansions to include Meigs, Rhea, and Roane counties to have bag limits of one. Bag limits in Carroll and Weakley counties were increased from one to three.

The statewide changes to Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) include cave closures (to assist in the control of white nose syndrome) on all areas unless authorized by TWRA. All WMAs open to statewide seasons would have a Jan. 15 closure for quail hunting.

In regard to manner and means, the boating and law enforcement division proposed that the air rifles regulation wording be changed to air guns, with a maximum caliber of .25.

Among other business at the May meeting, the TWRA Boating and Law Enforcement Division will recognize its 2012 Boating Officer of the Year and Part-Time Boating Officer of the Year.

Committee meetings will begin at 1 p.m. on Thursday. The formal meeting starts at 9 a.m. on Friday. The public is invited to attend.

 

[tickweed]

I don't know how much or how little what we "think" is directly correlated as "cause & effect", but do know I consistently heard more gobbling when we had a 2-bird limit than I hear now in the same places being hunting (Stewart Co.) under a 4-bird limit.

Ironically, seems we had more turkey hunters over a broad area then (in a particular county), although the average turkey hunter was not nearly as experienced in killing a turkey as today. The average turkey hunter was also more limited in his effective shooting range with the guns, chokes, shells being used a decade or so ago. Now we have better camo, more comfortable things to sit on, better guns, chokes, shells, instructional dvds, remote-controlled decoys, etc.

This brings up another thought: Might it be that our turkey hunters today are (on average) much more experienced and accomplished, and this coupled with much higher limits may be altering the dynamics more than thought?

Wes, you may have hit the nail on the head.

 

[102]

Not ONE of us could possibly make a statement about Turkey season limits for the entire State without exhaustive research for the ENTIRE State.

As for my season, I probably have as much experience hunting Tennessee Gobblers as most on this forum. I also have a degree in Forestry and Wildlife Management. That being said I went from last season being my best ever. To this season being my worst ever. I am CERTAIN weather has as much to do with birds being vocal as it does with daytime rut activity. If it is hot, bucks still rut, just more at night, when it is cooler.

I walked over 180 miles in six weeks this past turkey season. I can count the number of birds I killed and called up on one hand. (One killed out of 5 called up).

I saw about the usual amount of turkey sign but just did not hear much gobbling.

For a run and gunner who relies HEAVILY on loud birds, this makes it tough. Had I wanted to set up a blind in a usage area and wait, I feel certain I would be successful. I just do not like to do this. I reserve the "stand" hunting for the deer.
(I am seriously considering doing more blind hunting next season though).
But putting out decoys, in the middle of the public woods, and calling randomly to a bird I have yet to see is just too boring and certainly not good exercise.

Does my lack of success make me think there are fewer birds?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Let's examine the facts from a random sample of a good cross section of some of the finest turkey hunters I know. (or know of)

First, I have friends who hunt all over the US. Kansas, Missouri, Florida, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, and Tennessee, to name a few. These guys also have friends who stay in touch with them. Most of these hunters also prefer the run and gun tactic when possible. We all need vocal birds.

The vast majority of these hunters all said the same thing. Turkey hunting in the areas where they hunted that had wetter and or cooler than usual weather, had OFF seasons. And unanimously ALL hunters said that in MOST places they hunted in Tennessee, vocal birds were way less vocal than usual.

Does this mean that breeding was off? I doubt it. I am sure there was still plenty of breeding.

To us, it just means that birds did not gobble much this Spring.

If next Spring has warm, dry weather, and I see very little sign and hear very little gobbling, I will begin to worry a little. VERY little. Because nature has a way of "cycling" through things.

All things considered, if I wanted TWRA to change anything, it would be to eliminate Spring Squirrel season.

I just do not think that there is any doubt that weather plays a key role in gobbling. Not so much breeding, but definitely how vocal birds are. And I have too many friends, and friends of friends, who hunt a huge cross section of the State, who all shared similar experience where weather was similar to here.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Ok so what about the areas of the state, that the birds aren't vocal vocal because they aren't there? No gobbling, no sign, no anything and there hasn't been for a few years. The ones that are doing the griping are the ones who have been without birds for several years not just this one.

 

[muddyboots]

If it we could just blame it on bad weather what about the 6 or 7 years before this year? Did those years have bad weather also?

 

[woodsman87]

I agree with 102 on the weather and gobbling. Better weather does have better gobbling. But it aint that I and everybody else aint hearing turkeys because there silen. We are not hearing turkeys or seeing them or having sign on our land because they aint there.

We are not stupid. We know our lands and the lands around them and have experienced the drop off for sevearl years in a row. One bad year doesn't mean anything, but 7-8 bad years in a row does. If you don't live or hunt in these places you do not understand and you have no business saying that they are there and just not gobbling because the bad weather. We know what is going on the places that we frequent.

 

[102]

I agree with 102 on the weather and gobbling. Better weather does have better gobbling. But it aint that I and everybody else aint hearing turkeys because there silen. We are not hearing turkeys or seeing them or having sign on our land because they aint there.

We are not stupid. We know our lands and the lands around them and have experienced the drop off for sevearl years in a row. One bad year doesn't mean anything, but 7-8 bad years in a row does. If you don't live or hunt in these places you do not understand and you have no business saying that they are there and just not gobbling because the bad weather. We know what is going on the places that we frequent.

Nobody is calling anyone stupid.
I had no idea that there were places in Tennessee that had supported good huntable numbers of turkey 6 or 7 years ago and that now, the birds were all killed.
I think in those areas of the State, the season should be closed.
And I am CERTAIN that if proof were presented to TWRA that this were the case, TWRA would take action to replenish the flock including a closed season or three.

I have hunted places like Ocoee (National Forest Land) where groups of seasoned hunters would "swear" the flock had all but vanished. Year after year would produce poor hunting results. Then suddenly one year things change and turkeys are BACK! EVERYWHERE.

I have seen the same thing with deer herds, and fish.

It is a NORMAL natural cycle.

I suggest finding land to hunt that HAS good huntable numbers of turkey next season and give your "home" area a (voluntary) break.

It took me years to accept that TWRA could not produce "huntable" numbers of Pope and Young deer in my county. So I went looking. And I have never looked back.

 

[woodsman87]

I agree with 102 on the weather and gobbling. Better weather does have better gobbling. But it aint that I and everybody else aint hearing turkeys because there silen. We are not hearing turkeys or seeing them or having sign on our land because they aint there.

We are not stupid. We know our lands and the lands around them and have experienced the drop off for sevearl years in a row. One bad year doesn't mean anything, but 7-8 bad years in a row does. If you don't live or hunt in these places you do not understand and you have no business saying that they are there and just not gobbling because the bad weather. We know what is going on the places that we frequent.

Nobody is calling anyone stupid.
I had no idea that there were places in Tennessee that had supported good huntable numbers of turkey 6 or 7 years ago and that now, the birds were all killed.
I think in those areas of the State, the season should be closed.
And I am CERTAIN that if proof were presented to TWRA that this were the case, TWRA would take action to replenish the flock including a closed season or three.

I have hunted places like Ocoee (National Forest Land) where groups of seasoned hunters would "swear" the flock had all but vanished. Year after year would produce poor hunting results. Then suddenly one year things change and turkeys are BACK! EVERYWHERE.

I have seen the same thing with deer herds, and fish.

It is a NORMAL natural cycle.

I suggest finding land to hunt that HAS good huntable numbers of turkey next season and give your "home" area a (voluntary) break.

It took me years to accept that TWRA could not produce "huntable" numbers of Pope and Young deer in my county. So I went looking. And I have never looked back.

I am fortunate enough to have a good spot somewhat nearby with huntable turkeys. I stated earlier that if TWRA went to units and my home area was a unit, it should be either closed season or no more than 1 or 2 birds with a 3 or 4 week season.
We hear and see few on my land year round. We normally get 1-3 gobblers and a few hens each spring, but the area is void of turkeys from mid summer all the way through the next March. Just seems to be a breeding/nesting area. I do not own much land, but have access to lands around it. This is just a guess, but I would say it has been about 1-3 gobblers per about 1,000 acres of good suitable habitat (cow pasture, hay fields, oak hardwoods, cedar thickets, food plots, and grown up blackberry thickets). It is just simply something wrong. We just never see, hear, or see turkey sign anymore.
7+ years ago it wasn't this way, seeing turkeys almost daily throughout this portion of the county year round. Small fall flocks were about 20 birds, but you would occasionally see them in the hundreds. Every spring all the pastures would have gobblers with "thier" hens. Every late spring and summer every little nook and cranny had a hen with a nest in it.

 

[102]

Not sure why things are that way for you woodsman, maybe something to do with a DDT type interaction between the soil (diet) and the eggs accumulated through several nesting seasons. Really doubt this but who knows.

More than likely it is a cycle of some sort.

If I were in your shoes, I would do as you have, find an alternate location till things get better.

TWRA simply can't micro manage counties. Manpower is just too prohibitive. I am sure we all realize these TWRA guys are not paid much. It is a state job. Kinda one of those (called) to serve kinda deals. Most TWRA employees really do it for the satisfaction and enjoyment of the job rather than the money. I respect that, even if it isn't long lived.

So it is pretty much up to us as hunters to decide "micro-management" style, what is best for our chosen area and then "pull the trigger" (pardon my pun). It is amazing what just a few like minded serious hunters can do for a local population of animals.

 

[woodsman87]

Im ready for hunting season of any kind(besides spring squirrel) to open so we can all relax again!
Check out these threads since all seasons are closed. We are having withdrawals and losing ourselves

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Me and woodsman aren't that far apart but different counties. I have access to thousands of acres of prime habitat and I heard more birds this year than I have in SEVERAL years. That number was 4, I used to hear 10-15 every morning just on one 450 acre parcel we lease but not anymore.

I agree with spur hunter and woodsman, there are several factors into play, but I still feel like there is a main contributor.

 

[tickweed]

The point seems to be missed. Its not so much the fact the birds didn't gobble. Weather related? Yes, may have been. Its the fact that in several counties, and way more than a couple, the bird population has really dropped, or they have just vanished.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Me and woodsman aren't that far apart but different counties. I have access to thousands of acres of prime habitat and I heard more birds this year than I have in SEVERAL years. That number was 4, I used to hear 10-15 every morning just on one 450 acre parcel we lease but not anymore.

I agree with spur hunter and woodsman, there are several factors into play, but I still feel like there is a main contributor.

You heard more this year than you have in several years and you only heard 4 this year???

In LC, yep

 

[catman529]

Im ready for hunting season of any kind(besides spring squirrel) to open so we can all relax again!
Check out these threads since all seasons are closed. We are having withdrawals and losing ourselves

this is true! lol

Places I hunt have no problem with turkey population. I don't think any of these extreme measures are needed here. And hopefully we won't get an influx of hunters from other areas because they heard it was good here, and killing more birds and causing a problem. I guess we turkey hunters can be pretty selfish sometimes. Everybody seems to want 15 gobblers on the roost when they hunt and some people think killing a hen will ruin the flock....

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Didn't you mean to say that you heard "less" this year instead of "more"???

No! I mean exactly what I said, I heard 4 birds in Lawrence co. This year and that is MORE than I have heard in 6 or 7 years

 

[woodsman87]

Didn't you mean to say that you heard "less" this year instead of "more"???

No! I mean exactly what I said, I heard 4 birds in Lawrence co. This year and that is MORE than I have heard in 6 or 7 years

I only heard 4 in Giles county this year, no joke. And I do not live in a subdivision, suburb, city, or town. I live in a very secluded area with lots of good habitat all the way around. It isn't because I don't listen either. I get up before daylight every day and during the spring months if I am not hunting, im listening for them on my property before work. This year I started hearing them on March 11th. By April 19th, they were all gone. Do not know whether they got shot or just moved off. Plenty of pasture and field for hens to feed in and gobblers to strut in. Plenty of roosting hardwoods. There is water sources.

Since we have had this decline, I only hear/see them during early to mid spring. They are either all dead or just move out of there by the end of April. We do not have turkeys on our land during the fall winter since the population started going down.

This is all a few miles south of Highway 64. You get north of Pulaski, birds everywhere all the time.

 

[AT Hiker]

This is all a few miles south of Highway 64. You get north of Pulaski, birds everywhere all the time.

I know you say good habitat all around, but has there been any major timbering or burns in the areas that could have caused an issue?

What about increase in predators, be it wild critters or an increase of dogs running loose?

What about any major agriculture changes?

I'm not doubting your evaluation of the habitat at all, just curious if something major has happened that you never thought about affecting the population. We are having the same decline in SW Dickson County, not as drastic as yours though. I have been trying to look at all angels but I cannot come up with anything, other than an slight increase in timber harvest nothing major.

 

[woodsman87]

This is all a few miles south of Highway 64. You get north of Pulaski, birds everywhere all the time.

I know you say good habitat all around, but has there been any major timbering or burns in the areas that could have caused an issue?

What about increase in predators, be it wild critters or an increase of dogs running loose?


What about any major agriculture changes?

I'm not doubting your evaluation of the habitat at all, just curious if something major has happened that you never thought about affecting the population. We are having the same decline in SW Dickson County, not as drastic as yours though. I have been trying to look at all angels but I cannot come up with anything, other than an slight increase in timber harvest nothing major.

Nothing major in our general area of any kind except non-native animals.

I have said this on these population threads earlier. Since 2007, we have had fewer turkeys each year. 2006 was the first year we started seeing feral hogs throghout north AL and south TN. Do not remember the exact year, but armidillos started showing up around this time as well. We have had coyotes, skunks, coons, possums, hawks, and barred owls as long as I can remember. I would think that these same invasive species, besides hawks and owls, live in much of the state of TN. I just think there is more going on with just these animals. Very wet springs early summers we have had the past several years with the exception of last year.