First orda of biness
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Plus, thousands of acres of habitat have been lost.
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2020 Wild Turkey Report
- Thread starter Southern Sportsman
- Start date
I just spoke with Roger Shields, thanked him for his efforts and inquired about this sentence that really concerned me:
"Adult and youth hunters combined harvested an estimated 57,633 turkeys (49,083 ± 4,725 adult gobblers, 7,946 ± 1,596 jakes, and 604 ± 400 bearded hens)."
We talked for 30 minutes on the phone. Long story short, Roger has a lot of confidence that the Statewide harvest (take from the resource) was more near 55-57k, rather than the REPORTED 40k. He went on to say with confidence that TN and other southern states reported harvest is only 70% of the ACTUAL HARVEST, so we are in line with neighboring states. He specifically mentioned Kentucky and I believe Georgia. The number in and of itself (55-57k) is not as concerning to him as the "percent take" from the standing population preseason (# removed versus # standing preseason). He said TWRA is trying to get a firmer estimate of the standing population of the statewide preseason turkey population, as well as each Region, and if it is ever deemed we are over-harvesting, a recommendation to the Commission to reduce bag limits will be forthcoming IF IT IS WARRANTED AND SUPPORTED with science and data, and not a knee jerk reaction. He clearly stated a good estimate of the preseason standing population is the piece of data we are missing, or have the least amount of confidence in at this point in time. He eluded to the fact the banded turkey research that will shed some light on how impactful the hunter harvest or over-harvest is. That is a four year study and will give him another piece of critical information about hunter harvest impact to the resource.
Super super nice and humble fellow that I could talk to all day. If nothing more, send him an email and thank him for his efforts toward these reports.
"Adult and youth hunters combined harvested an estimated 57,633 turkeys (49,083 ± 4,725 adult gobblers, 7,946 ± 1,596 jakes, and 604 ± 400 bearded hens)."
We talked for 30 minutes on the phone. Long story short, Roger has a lot of confidence that the Statewide harvest (take from the resource) was more near 55-57k, rather than the REPORTED 40k. He went on to say with confidence that TN and other southern states reported harvest is only 70% of the ACTUAL HARVEST, so we are in line with neighboring states. He specifically mentioned Kentucky and I believe Georgia. The number in and of itself (55-57k) is not as concerning to him as the "percent take" from the standing population preseason (# removed versus # standing preseason). He said TWRA is trying to get a firmer estimate of the standing population of the statewide preseason turkey population, as well as each Region, and if it is ever deemed we are over-harvesting, a recommendation to the Commission to reduce bag limits will be forthcoming IF IT IS WARRANTED AND SUPPORTED with science and data, and not a knee jerk reaction. He clearly stated a good estimate of the preseason standing population is the piece of data we are missing, or have the least amount of confidence in at this point in time. He eluded to the fact the banded turkey research that will shed some light on how impactful the hunter harvest or over-harvest is. That is a four year study and will give him another piece of critical information about hunter harvest impact to the resource.
Super super nice and humble fellow that I could talk to all day. If nothing more, send him an email and thank him for his efforts toward these reports.
Can't imagine
I feel confident saying that the percent removed/percent standing is WAY WAY out of proportion for a thriving resource. I would also say a large percentage of that is due to decoy use early in the season in fields. What used to be a rare kill is now routine because of decoys.
SKFOOTER
Well-Known Member
That's all fine and good Andy, but it seems to me that TWRA's response to wildlife problems is always reactive rather than proactive and driven by the desire to prevent a decrease in license sales, especially to non-residents.
Agreed. But from Roger's perspective, he currently has no "hard data" to go on to make a scientific recommendation to the Commission, so we cannot expect someone such as himself to make a wholesale recommendation based on a few unsatisfied hunters in Region 1, when he has just as many fat and happy hunters in Region 2. He acknowledged the variation in geography and landscape across the State and eluded to the fact that managing the resource at the Region level may very well be needed in out years. Again, he is strictly a public servant with limited staff, resources and funding, so he can only make recommendations based on the science and facts at his fingertips, which he is still compiling, albeit slower than many of us would prefer. We cannot blame him for years of perceived mismanagement before he came onboard.
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'borohunter
Well-Known Member
Not to oversimplify but sounds like two tracks - one public pressure (requests) for changes to either manner of take (decoys) and amount of take (lower harvest and/or season change). Second track - what we can each do to help (predator control). I realize not the time of year we can make as much of a difference but if every turkey hunter took 2 or 3 predators a piece in the fall (trapping or shooting) that would be something we CAN control and likely make a difference.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Agree.
It's only been since he's "here" that we've gone from a 4 to a 3-bird limit this year.
Not sure what any hunting reg changes can do to change the weather, improve habitat and decrease predation losses, such as from hawks, owls, eagles, coyotes, bobcats, and dogs. Add the nest predators of racoons, possums, snakes, all the above, plus fire ants and diseases.
Do hope these studies increase knowledge & awareness as to ways we can help, but as with quail, hunting regs may factor in very little to this big picture.
artwork001
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Those numbers are alarming. I don't know what the answer is but something needs to be done looking at that. I suspect lots of causes and therefore there will need to be lots of corrections. The beginning of season, season lengths, lower bag limits. No decoys if that will help. How many of us are willing to only kill one bird this year? Self regulation. I wonder how many of the guys yellin the loudest on here are the guys that kill a limit every year and maybe only target the biggest most dominant Toms? I'm not a biologist or gynecologist but the facts here have opened my eyes up to the fact that something is going on. it won't hurt to try a few things over a couple seasons. If we can make the opportunity better in the future we should.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Personally, I have historically killed one less than the limit (in TN), kinda "saving" that last bird, just so can enjoy continuing to hunt and/or just having that opportunity to go.
More recently, I have self-regulated further.
In 2020, I killed one bird.
In 2019, I killed zero.
Not saying could have killed the limit either year, but did give a pass to a few for various reasons, mainly didn't want to kill the last known longbeard in an area, and no desire to kill a jake.
At present, plan to kill 1 or 2 this season (in TN), and maybe help some others kill 1 or 2.
Meanwhile, have worked on continuing to improve habitat for better nesting success, and paid professional trappers to reduce the nest-raiders and turkey killers. In the main (private property) areas I turkey hunt, we greatly reduced the coyote population in Winter 2019, then again Winter 2020 (last trapping ended Feb 2021).
Unfortunately, I've seen no difference yet in the turkey population from before we started professionally trapping (mainly coyotes, bobcats, and raccoons). Appeared to have decent nesting success in 2020, yet very few poults survived to fall (despite far fewer coyotes & bobcats). My belief is the #1 killer of young poults in this area has become the Cooper's hawk. Taking out the coyotes may just be helping out the hawks.
Southern Sportsman
Well-Known Member
Self-imposed limit?
There's been much talk about fewer turkeys in some areas, no turkeys in other areas, limits reduced by the State, and delayed start date in certain counties. I'm asking this question in part because of what I saw happen in other states with shrinking flocks...folks just kept bangin'away. In...
I've called off shooting a double due to not killing them all. I've killed one bird in three years myself and called in two others for new hunters and that's it. What happened in my area had more to do with just using decoys IMO since I went from normal population numbers in November to next to nothing in March...this was 2017.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
That actually sounds more like it could have been aflatoxin poisoning?
This could especially be the case if the hen numbers were also greatly diminished.
Brother I have been doing this for a long while now. Heck I quit hunting one spot I have for 3 years because the population just wasnt what it once was. Starting to bounce back finally this past year but I prob still wont harvest one off it this year just to wait another season and see how it does. This is an easy spot to kill a turkey as well.
Personally i wouldn't kill 4 or even 3 now turkeys off of one piece of property unless it was HUGE and have a very good population on it.
Yes that's what I think happened.
kbradley
Active Member
Would not bother me if decoys were eliminated from the scene so I am with you . Also would not bother me if the limit was two birds but that is just me . Whatever the case , I do not want to lose the beautiful birds . As a 64 year old , these birds would have changed my life drastically as I grew up . They have been a joy for me the last 20 plus years . They are definitely habit forming .
probably not just one thing but many factors have contributed to decline
My family and I have been avid Turkey hunters since the seasons were open in Tn and I've been involved with twra and nwtf since early 80s
I'll share with you some info that might explain some of what we have experienced
regarding reducing the limits during twra meeting
Only 67 emails were received out of 25000 successful hunters wanting to reduce the limits .
Complaining on forums or face book have little value
the biologist that has been quoted about hens not breeding was called by twra it was an opinionhis , no data to support
the reason the season is so long is when it was set decades ago , my friend Jack Murray was the state Turkey coordinator, he didn't not want to miss the peak goblin season which he thought could vary as much a couple weeks per year
This same population decline happened in the 70s and 8os , Jack said some of the original stockings were ms strain birds and he felt that they were not pure (mostly 31/32) some of the original counties stocked boomed and had big flocks and then busted .
his goal was to restock with missouri strain birds (Lbl)
Which caused the population to explode across Tn with the stocking efforts
Plus he said they gobbled more .
the Preliminary results of the twra funded 5 yr study in Wayne snd other counties show nest predators are primary reason of reduced poult count , trapping was a big deal in the early 8os due to fur prices , not the same since
some others observations by being involved with Turkey hunting for almost 50 years is the change in calls and gun patterns / range
A 40 yd gun was absolutely max in the 80s
Now it's 80yds with tss.
If you want to do something about it , volunteer cutting your limit to 2 ,
Don't hunt the first week or two if you own the land
don't shoot jakes or bearded hens
Also trap a few coons and possums
Plant some habitat improvements , Not food plots but nesting habitat.
read that again Nesting Habitat.
switch grass is excellent
Don't bush hog or cut hay to early
plus don't forget the increase in hunters
I'm doing all the above .
Hope this helps
My family and I have been avid Turkey hunters since the seasons were open in Tn and I've been involved with twra and nwtf since early 80s
I'll share with you some info that might explain some of what we have experienced
regarding reducing the limits during twra meeting
Only 67 emails were received out of 25000 successful hunters wanting to reduce the limits .
Complaining on forums or face book have little value
the biologist that has been quoted about hens not breeding was called by twra it was an opinionhis , no data to support
the reason the season is so long is when it was set decades ago , my friend Jack Murray was the state Turkey coordinator, he didn't not want to miss the peak goblin season which he thought could vary as much a couple weeks per year
This same population decline happened in the 70s and 8os , Jack said some of the original stockings were ms strain birds and he felt that they were not pure (mostly 31/32) some of the original counties stocked boomed and had big flocks and then busted .
his goal was to restock with missouri strain birds (Lbl)
Which caused the population to explode across Tn with the stocking efforts
Plus he said they gobbled more .
the Preliminary results of the twra funded 5 yr study in Wayne snd other counties show nest predators are primary reason of reduced poult count , trapping was a big deal in the early 8os due to fur prices , not the same since
some others observations by being involved with Turkey hunting for almost 50 years is the change in calls and gun patterns / range
A 40 yd gun was absolutely max in the 80s
Now it's 80yds with tss.
If you want to do something about it , volunteer cutting your limit to 2 ,
Don't hunt the first week or two if you own the land
don't shoot jakes or bearded hens
Also trap a few coons and possums
Plant some habitat improvements , Not food plots but nesting habitat.
read that again Nesting Habitat.
switch grass is excellent
Don't bush hog or cut hay to early
plus don't forget the increase in hunters
I'm doing all the above .
Hope this helps
You can change manner and means all you want but until something is done to improve the predator and nesting situation it isnt going to matter what you do
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
very interesting!
any idea which parts of the state were stocked with Mississippi birds and which were stocked with Missouri birds? Im sure my farms in middle TN were from Missouri lineage, they look and act totally different from the birds I've encountered in south MS.
Strictly from memory as it's been 35 years since I was part of that nwtf group with Jack Murray
But mostly west tn
Maybe lewis in middle as it had a huntable population then , Took me 2 years to hear one gobble
Decatur for sure as I moved there later on and discussed it with him
Hardin was def missouri birds
Myself , pawpaw and 2 feom Savannah were the only hunters we knew of that first season
I killed one with a red flannel shirt on with a ben lee mouth call that sounded more like a gas pain
There used to be hundreds of turkeys on Wolf River Wma back when I didn't care to hunt to them and was worried more about ducks and deer, now last season I only spotted about 20, 4 gobblers. Kayaking the ghost last summer we saw a few hens with poults but not many, like 2-4, I've seen hens with poults in Chickasaw and hatchie 5-8 back in 2004-2013
horrible time to get serious about turkey hunting! They need to go back to draw only for Wolf River, it's a really fun wma to hunt.
horrible time to get serious about turkey hunting! They need to go back to draw only for Wolf River, it's a really fun wma to hunt.
