870 Supermag Choke/Shell Advice

[Roost 1]

Internal Geometry??

Yes internal geometry, the MANY differences inside the various chokes that are offered today. This article may shed some light on internal geometry for those who have never heard of it. It is not breaking news as the article is dated 2008. http://allaboutshooting.com/article_inf ... ru6nkb0q27

My point is the same restriction does equate to the same pattern results (shot count, how dense, POA/POI, etc etc) amongst the various turkey chokes today, many times because of the differences in internal geometry. Hope I was more clear in this effort of explaining what I mentioned in my previous post.

Andy is right, the exit diameter is really only part of the equation. The internal make up makes a different in conjunction with the exit construction.

take the SSX choke as an example. The exit diamter for a benelli gun in that choke is like .643 which is TIGHT but due to how the internal design is created it does not shoot as tight as a kicks or something else with a smooth design in the same construction.

Sumtoy, Indian Creek, SSX and Hevi chokes all use someone of the same design with minor modifications. the use a ring system to stop the wad rather then depend on the ports to do it. Where as if you look through a kicks or pure gold it has a smooth design using ports to slow the wad. Neither is wrong or right just the design they use to get what they determin as optimal.

all that said to get to the point that the exit diameter does not say all that needs to be said depending on maker, meaning a
660 jelly head may shoot a tighter pattern then a 650 sumtoy just due to design.

Well stated guys. That is why one .660 and another .660 can shoot completely different. There is more difference than the name on the package.

Everyone is free to believe what you want. Its your money spend it as you wish...Personally I choose not to believe the "hype" and the marketing schemes....I will guarantee you I can take a $14 Undertaker of the right constriction for a certain gun and it will perform within a few pellets of some other brand choke of same constriction. I have been doing this too long to believe any different..My point in all this is you do not have to buy a $75 choke to get 300 #7s in 10" circle at 40yds....And by the way for the ones that love the #7s you will continue to love them if all you shoot at is paper or birds in the wide open but as soon as you have some brush in the way you will be sorry if shooting any distance at all...Not trying to start an argument, but just wait and see. We were trying #7s 20years ago, it is not anything new but there is a reason they never caught on.....until people starting having pissing contest on who could put the most pellets in 10" @40yds.

 

[REN]

agree with parts of that sure, I agree it doesnt take a $75 choke to get a good pattern which is why i would never pay retail for one. FOR ME its has nothing to do with the name on the side of the choke (sumtoy is a good example, most have never heard of them)but about consistency. I dont really look at the "hype" of design but look at basic physics of what and how it is intended to work.

I dont agree fully with the undertaker part as i had one in my 870 and could never get it to do anything worth a darn with any shells i tried in it so its not always the case. Also "a few" pellets could be a big difference depending on shot size you are shooting. Having said that i know plenty of folks that shoot cheap chokes or just a basic full choke and do just fine so its all in how you wanna set up your weapon.

I dont fully agree with the 7's comment but everyone has a right to their opinion. I have shot more then a few over the past few years using them in some nasty stuff like briar thickets and thick pine thickets with no issues. Your not taking 40yds shots in thick cover.


again not hating on your opinion we all have different ways of looking at things.

 

[zach08]

I got an 870 supermag for Christmas to use in this my second turkey season and it came with two chokes. I patterned it and wasn't pleased with it so I asked around and did some research on the Internet and I decided to go with the ported undertaker and boy was in pleased with it. I shoot 3" lead so I'm one of the guys that don't buy into all the hype. Many folks do and even some of the guys I hunt with. I'm not knocking it. To each his own.

 

[muddyboots]

It aint hype when you ban back it up. bwaaaaaaahahahaha

 

[Grizzly Johnson]

I think this is turning into another johnson measuring contest.... :whistle:

 

[REN]

Sympathy not embarrassment lol

If you don't know 4" ain't enough you can't really be embarrassed HAHAHAHA

 

[Jarred525]

I think I am going to go ahead and pattern Hevi shot mag blends with the stock Remington full choke as a starting point and go from there. Will post results. Thanks guys for the input.

 

[Brad C.]

Internal Geometry??

Yes internal geometry, the MANY differences inside the various chokes that are offered today. This article may shed some light on internal geometry for those who have never heard of it. It is not breaking news as the article is dated 2008. http://allaboutshooting.com/article_inf ... ru6nkb0q27

My point is the same restriction does equate to the same pattern results (shot count, how dense, POA/POI, etc etc) amongst the various turkey chokes today, many times because of the differences in internal geometry. Hope I was more clear in this effort of explaining what I mentioned in my previous post.

Andy is right, the exit diameter is really only part of the equation. The internal make up makes a different in conjunction with the exit construction.

take the SSX choke as an example. The exit diamter for a benelli gun in that choke is like .643 which is TIGHT but due to how the internal design is created it does not shoot as tight as a kicks or something else with a smooth design in the same construction.

Sumtoy, Indian Creek, SSX and Hevi chokes all use someone of the same design with minor modifications. the use a ring system to stop the wad rather then depend on the ports to do it. Where as if you look through a kicks or pure gold it has a smooth design using ports to slow the wad. Neither is wrong or right just the design they use to get what they determin as optimal.

all that said to get to the point that the exit diameter does not say all that needs to be said depending on maker, meaning a
660 jelly head may shoot a tighter pattern then a 650 sumtoy just due to design.

Well stated guys. That is why one .660 and another .660 can shoot completely different. There is more difference than the name on the package.

Everyone is free to believe what you want. Its your money spend it as you wish...Personally I choose not to believe the "hype" and the marketing schemes....I will guarantee you I can take a $14 Undertaker of the right constriction for a certain gun and it will perform within a few pellets of some other brand choke of same constriction. I have been doing this too long to believe any different..My point in all this is you do not have to buy a $75 choke to get 300 #7s in 10" circle at 40yds....And by the way for the ones that love the #7s you will continue to love them if all you shoot at is paper or birds in the wide open but as soon as you have some brush in the way you will be sorry if shooting any distance at all...Not trying to start an argument, but just wait and see. We were trying #7s 20years ago, it is not anything new but there is a reason they never caught on.....until people starting having pissing contest on who could put the most pellets in 10" @40yds.

Well all I will say is your wrong on both counts. I have shot most chokes out there, and the Undertaker is not nothing to brag about. And those 7's will kill a long ways. I shot plum thru the head and neck at 45yds plus on a 24lb bird a couple seasons ago and some shot all the way through the breast. I dug out 24 pellets buried deep in the breast as well.

 

[Roost 1]

I said Undtaker of the right constriction for a particular gun, not all guns shoot well with same constriction, will work good. I got 2 buds that both shoot 835's one has a Rhino and the other uses Unsdertaker both chokes are same constriction, 695 I think, and I can guarantee you could not tell whose pattern was whose if you didnt know. And as far as the 7's go I did not say they wouldnt work. only that if you have to shoot thru much brush they wont work good. I could kill a turkey with a #7 dove load if he was close enough and in the wide open, and could prolly dig pellets out of him to boot.....So its my opinion vs your opinion dont tell me I am wrong!!!!

 

[Brad C.]

Well case in point. Get Undertaker to make a .676 choke for my 835 and I'll shoot it against my .676 Star Dot choke with the Hevi-13 3.5" 2.25oz #7 loads and I got money that the Star Dot will smoke it for and avg on 3 shots on each choke.

 

[Roost 1]

Well there lies the problem Undertaker dont make many diff sizes for different guns. I tried in a 870 but was too open did not work well for me but in my buds case it saved him $85 or so compared to price of Rhino....What part of MO you from. I hunt in Clark Co some and have also hunted around Unionville.

 

[Brad C.]

You keep talking about the Hevi-13 7's like they are inferior loads.

24lb gobbler at 45+ yards with a 870 shooting 3" Hevi-13 2oz #7 load out of a MAD Super MAX .675 choke. Look at the damage that those weak #7 loads did. LOL!

And here's the opposite side just to show you those weak #7's shot plum through the other side of the breast on some shot. They must have been smokin to do this.

 

[Roost 1]

You keep talking about the Hevi-13 7's like they are inferior loads. Again you don't seem to know what your saying.

24lb gobbler at 45+ yards with a 870 shooting 3" Hevi-13 20z #7 loads out of a MAD Super MAX .675 choke. Look at the damge that those weak #7 loads did. LOL!

And here's the opposite side just to show you those weak #7's shot plum through the other side of the breast on some shot. They must have been smokin to do this.

Show me where I said they were weak or inferior.....Is your reading comprehension that bad.....I am done with this!!!!!

 

[Heeter]

I shoot Undertaker and Hevi Shot 6's and got 260 in a 10inch circle at around 38 yards out of my 870

 

[Brad C.]

Now don't get your feathers all ruffled just because you had to be corrected. I just don't want you to mislead people. The same goes for what you said about the Undertaker chokes. They are an ok choke, but there are better shooting chokes out there. I know.

Oh and here's how my gun was patterning with that same load or lot # of those Hevi-13 #7's.

 

[Brad C.]

Well your statement of shooting through brush is what got it going. Most good turkey hunters pick a good hole in the brush if they are smart and shoot through that instead of trying to shoot through the brush itself. Those 7's will shoot way denser patterns than 6's or 5's and still have plenty of zip to shoot plum through the head and neck at 40yds plus.

 

[Andy S.]

Show me where I said they were weak or inferior.....Is your reading comprehension that bad.....I am done with this!!!!!

I think the quote below is what Brad is taking exception to.

And by the way for the ones that love the #7s you will continue to love them if all you shoot at is paper or birds in the wide open but as soon as you have some brush in the way you will be sorry if shooting any distance at all...Not trying to start an argument, but just wait and see. We were trying #7s 20years ago, it is not anything new but there is a reason they never caught on....

 

[Brad C.]

That's correct Andy.

Roost 1 made it sound like 7's aren't as good of choice as bigger shot with that statement. But the real truth is no shot is going to effectively shoot through the brush. That's sort of like saying I use a 300 Win Mag so I can shoot through a tree to hit a deer instead of a a 270 Win. The smart thing to do would be to pick a more effective shot in the first place with no tree in between the bullet and the deer instead of making a statement like this.

 

[Roost 1]

I am sorry if somehow you got confused, but as I said its my opinion and you are welcome to yours...However you are not "correcting" me on anything and I am not misleading anyone about anything. Oh and by the the way I am sure you are some kind of Turkey Hunting Legend in your parts by the way you say most good turkey hunters pick an opening to shoot throw. I would think that to be common sense when that applies to the situation. I dont know what part of MO you hunt but the places I have hunted in Northern MO, which are several, its all open so you dont have to worry about brush and things such as that. Good luck with your season, save some for the rest of us....

 

[Brad C.]

I'm no legend. But I killed my share.

And I did get a nice consolation prize from that bird above.