AGFC Proposal - 1 turkey statewide

[Boll Weevil]

Prediction: TN again kills somewhere near the 10yr average of ~32k birds and no significant changes to regs are recommended again next year.

If indeed TN regs are being driven by harvest (and AR is managing based on the same thesis) until kill totals start dropping precipitously the state ain't doing much more. Dropping the limit by 1 bird last year saved us what...several hundred toms? AR's changes were absolutely draconian in comparison in response to their harvest being cut in HALF.

 

[Hridge]

The AR turkey population has struggled for years. It is to the point that some/several have asked for a further reduction in opportunity and bag limit. Proposal here is 1 statewide bird per season starting in 2023.

AGFC - 1 Bird

If that's what it takes I'll do it. I think predation is a big problem but I also think pesticides on corn and other crops is really hurting them as well. Everyone start trapping coons, yotes, Bobcat, and foxes. I've been trapping on my farm and it has helped. Everyone also likes there property to look nice and we are destroying nesting habitat by mowing constantly. Good friend has a massive farm and he has tons of turkeys because he leaves lots of areas grown up for nesting and constantly traps predators. It has worked. I feel like we are part of the problem and everyone has to do their part to help it. You can lower bag limits to zero and it's not gonna help unless we as hunters do our part.

 

[AT Hiker]

Prediction: TN again kills somewhere near the 10yr average of ~32k birds and no significant changes to regs are recommended again next year.

If indeed TN regs are being driven by harvest (and AR is managing based on the same thesis) until kill totals start dropping precipitously the state ain't doing much more. Dropping the limit by 1 bird last year saved us what...several hundred toms? AR's changes were absolutely draconian in comparison in response to their harvest being cut in HALF.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that a former lead TWRA biologist basis his opinions off harvest numbers. If that practice is still bleeding over to current TWRA biologist then be prepared for the inevitable.

 

[JDUB]

I would be just fine with non-res hunters getting one bird a yr...

 

[TheLBLman]

I just don't understand how turkey numbers can decline in multiple states and the state biologists backed with state funds, along with the help of universities and state agencies (TWRA, etc.), can't pin point the cause.

I think the main reason for this is because there may be no single cause to pin point.
It appears to be multiple factors, each synergizing the effects of the others.

Another issue may be that some state agencies do not want to admit the things they COULD do that would have the most powerful impacts in helping wild turkeys thrive. Realize that some things that would be highly effective to implement by a state agency, they simply cannot do; other things they do not want to do because of how such things would reduce license sales in the short-term. An example would be establishing a hunting season on hawks to reduce this never-before-seen high population of predatory birds. This would be a federal issue, and the feds would rather make it illegal to kill a turkey before they'd ever purposefully consider reducing the numbers of raptors.

One thing the TWRA doesn't "want" to do is start the season date later, as this would reduce revenue via less non-resident license sales. Never mind this alone would be one of the single best things that could be done to help ongoing turkey populations, which in turn helps sustain that cash cow of non-resident license sales.

IMO, the most powerful two things (that are "reasonable") the TWRA COULD do to greatly enhance the opportunities for turkeys to thrive statewide:

1) Open the season a week later (Juvenile weekend becomes Saturday closest to April 1st).

a) This would significantly reduce the effectiveness of illegal baiting as a means of killing turkeys.

b) This would significantly reduce the number of non-resident hunters coming to TN.
The non-residents drawn to TN tend to be much more highly-accomplished turkey killers than TN's resident turkey hunters. This group of accomplished turkey killers has historically been drawn to TN mainly because our turkey season opens earlier than their resident states', and we have had a higher turkey limit than their resident states.

c) This would slightly enhance reproductive and nesting success.

d) This would slightly decrease raptor predation (disturbed & pushed birds by hunters become easier prey, and with the season opening later, there is more escape cover from spring green-up).

2) Reduce the annual limit to 2 birds, only 1 of which may be taken in the 1st 7 season days.

So simple, no additional expenses for TWRA, very little lost revenue from non-resident license sales, while enhancing the sustainability of future non-resident license sales.

 

[TheLBLman]

Completely agree that the reaping/strutter tactic has caused it's fair share of damage, but sure seems like there is more going on here.

Won't totally disagree, but I believe the "benefits" of reaping and of using strutter decoys has been greatly over-stated. There's a reason the most avid, accomplished, experienced turkey hunters either never or seldom use these tactics:
They do as well or better without them, and they are going to limit out, with or without. Will also add I believe such tactics would become even less used by the novice hunters if our season opened a week later.

I've never tried "reaping", but during the first 3 years or so of Knight & Hale putting our their "Pretty Boy" strutter decoy, I certainly did quite a bit of experimenting. It wasn't that it didn't sometimes work, but seemed more often it cost me long-beards I believe I would have otherwise killed. Same can be said for a flock of turkey decoys, with or without a strutter or jake in the mix.

Personally, I didn't stop using the stutter decoy because I thought it was "unfair" or unethical, but totally because such use was more an overall liability than an asset. Most of those crying about decoys have never themselves used decoys, thus don't understand the full ramifications of all those liabilities. All most see are the turkey-shooting videos which are mostly made to help sell products, such as turkey decoys.

IMO, those speaking out most against decoys are much like some purist fly-fisherman proclaiming that no one should be allowed to use spinning gear or bait-casting tackle. There are many methods to fish, and many methods to hunt. If you think your way it the best, promote its merits, but you're hypocritical when you limit out every year while demanding other hunters only do it your way or the highway.

To what extent decoys may help a novice hunter kill a turkey,
outlawing decoys would mainly just make a shift as to which hunters kill most those same turkeys?

Once a hunter figures out how to kill turkeys (without decoys),
it's really not that hard, and a lot more novice hunters might more quickly become accomplished turkey killers if decoys were outlawed, ultimately bringing us back full circle to the original problem of us all collectively killing too many turkeys than the resource can annually withstand.

So without decoys, more less experienced turkey hunters fail to kill a turkey,
only to have those turkeys killed by the highly accomplished hunters who themselves limit out, and often limit out in multiple states.

Decoys or no decoys will make little difference, but I agree it is a factor, just more a factor as to which hunters kill the turkeys and how fast they can limit out.

 

[Plateau Hunter]

I didn't start turkey hunting until the limit was 3 or 4-can't remember, but I never limited out…a reflection of my ability no doubt…I wouldn't be against a 1 longbeard limit in an effort to help turkey population numbers…although I'm not completely convinced it would help…pushing youth weekend back could be a positive also imo…but poult and non hunting adult mortality is where the problem lies imo…seems like infectious disease or toxins is the most likely cause of widespread collapse..at any rate hopefully some answers will be found resulting in increased turkey numbers

 

[younggun308]

Yes, youth weekend should not be in March ever again.

 

[poorhunter]

Me neither, I just don't get it. Guys on here hearing 10 to 15 a morning and then gone? Private ground? You know it wasn't over hunted or breeding didn't take place or it would have never gotten as good as it was. It's beyond me and I hope they figure it out!

I can make an educated guess for my area that disease killed them one winter and the pressure from all the other factors mentioned have kept them down. I honestly lean towards decoy use in the early season having the largest impact on keeping them down. I understand that nest predators kill more turkeys than anything else, but they have been around forever.

 

[poorhunter]

I can make an educated guess for my area that disease killed them one winter and the pressure from all the other factors mentioned have kept them down. I honestly lean towards decoy use in the early season having the largest impact on keeping them down. I understand that nest predators kill more turkeys than anything else, but they have been around forever.

You know, I'm going to back off that last statement a little. I have only been in TN since 2012, and I have lived in and amongst turkeys the whole time. I remember being surprised at how few poults I saw for each hen when I got here. Rarely did I see more than 2-3 per hen. I'd see a group of 3-5 hens in the summer and they would have maybe that many poults together. This is while I was seeing hundreds of hens and have a ton of toms to chose from. I blamed it on overpopulation then, but I don't know honk that was it.

 

[catman529]

I just don't understand how turkey numbers can decline in multiple states and the state biologists backed with state funds, along with the help of universities and state agencies (TWRA, etc.), can't pin point the cause. Completely agree that the reaping/strutter tactic has caused it's fair share of damage, but sure seems like there is more going on here.

That's why they are doing so many studies and continuing to start new studies in multiple states. Nobody has the answer, but we're trying.

 

[Willysman]

Most lawful hunters only kill one or two a year so cutting the limit won't accomplish anything. It's those that kill all they can kill and never check them out that is hurting the population among other things. Now with TWRA officers not allowed on private land without a warrant it will get lots worse.

 

[gobbler32]

When I first started turkey hunting in the late 80s the limit was only 2 and stayed that way for a good while. If you wanted a 3rd bird you had to go to a wma, lbl, etc.

 

[poorhunter]

I started in Indiana where it was one bird, two week season and quitting time was noon on one each day. It's so extremely different here in Tennessee

 

[utvolsfan77]

Although I have hunted since I was a teenager in the mid 1970s, I never specifically hunted turkeys until around 2010. I try to get out in the woods a few times each spring, but I have only taken two gobblers in my entire life. Now I hate to sound like a complete idiot, but I've seen a term used frequently in this and many other threads recently in regard to turkey hunting, but I have no idea what it means. What the heck is turkey "reaping".

Also, I'll agree that turkey numbers are down drastically from where they were 10 years ago, but I cannot cite a specific cause. I do know that here in Greene County, we were usually in the top five turkey harvest counties statewide consistently until about five years ago.

During the past 10 years I've gotten trail camera photos throughout deer season and all winter long after deer season closes. In late winter I'll see large flocks of turkeys, often with 50 birds or more, feeding in pasture fields, especially on rainy days. But it seems as if the turkeys totally disappear once the season opens. Everyone always gets a good laugh out of this and harass me about being a rookie turkey hunter, yet they will readily admit that many of my observations mirror their own. This is coming from guys who have hunted turkeys for 30 years or more.

I've seen a lot of reasons suggested for the decline of our turkey populations throughout the south, and all of these suggestions appear logical and to have merit. However, I tend to agree with LBLMan and others though in that the true cause is most likely a combination of several factors, and that those factors are slightly different in different regions or even in different areas within the same region. That is why there will never be a one-stop cure statewide and more than likely it will take many years to figure all of it out in each region.

 

[Andy S.]

^^ Agree on underlying issue likely being multi-factorial and difficult to pinpoint. Reaping is crawling behind a gobbler fan toward a dominant gobbler as a challenge to him and many times his harem of hens that he is strutting for. Often, the dominant gobbler will see and charge the "reaper" and be shot dead at 10-20 yards just as he figures out the reaper is a hunter and not another male turkey. Typically done in open areas on private property. Extremely risky from a safety point of view IMO. YouTube has numerous videos of reapers/turkey reaping.

 

[muddyboots]

I drove from Savannah tn to Paris tn this morning. Left my house at daylight. Arrived at Paris about 7:50. Number of turkeys seen = 0. Now that is sad.