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Air gap between spine and lungs?

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BSK

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deerassociation.com

Is There an Empty Space Between a Deer’s Lungs and Spine?

Some hunters call it a “dead zone." Some call it “no man’s land.” No matter what you call it, there’s an easy way to see the truth with your own eyes.
deerassociation.com deerassociation.com

I've always known this story bow-hunters tell about there being an airgap between a deer's spine and their lungs - a spot that would allow an arrow pass-through with no damage - was bogus, but this article does a great job of dispelling this myth.

They also present several theories on why so many bow-hunters still believe in it.

Thoughts?
 
We have a member here who shot below the spine and didn't hit a lung, killed it 2 weeks later with a rifle at same place he shot it with a bow. Nice 8pt if I remember correctly. Arrow was a pass through also
 
BSK said:
Actually, what I think the biggest problem is are hits high in the lungs. Sometimes these hits have to first fill the chest cavity before pouring out of the chest. In that situation, a deer can go a long way before they start bleed outwardly. I've even seen that situation with rifle and MZ hits.
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I've shown pics of it several times before but a couple years ago I killed a buck that had a hole in his armpit and scar high up on opposite shoulder where he was shot the previous season. His lungs were deformed & goofy looking but he was alive to be hunted a year later by me. Further in to the butcher job I also found another broadhead with few inches of arrow lodged in his "good" shoulder that was encapsulated in a hard tumor. He'd been double lung shot twice in his life and still survived to be a heavy 6.5yr old. I suspect the hunters both after not finding a dead buck at the end of the blood trail assumed they'd hit the "no man's land".

First pic is shoulder scar from entry. Second is hole in armpit from exit. Third is what I found lodged on inside of same shoulder as the exit hole. The broadhead was encapsulated in a tumor and the exit hole from the other shot was healed but not closed. Scar on shoulder was healed as well. The video i'm pretty sure was just the day I killed him but the time stamp is way off. Regardless it shows him using both shoulders with no trouble. Lung hits aren't a guaranteed kill.

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Ski said:
I've shown pics of it several times before but a couple years ago I killed a buck that had a hole in his armpit and scar high up on opposite shoulder where he was shot the previous season. His lungs were deformed & goofy looking but he was alive to be hunted a year later by me. Further in to the butcher job I also found another broadhead with few inches of arrow lodged in his "good" shoulder that was encapsulated in a hard tumor. He'd been double lung shot twice in his life and still survived to be a heavy 6.5yr old. I suspect the hunters both after not finding a dead buck at the end of the blood trail assumed they'd hit the "no man's land".

First pic is shoulder scar from entry. Second is hole in armpit from exit. Third is what I found lodged on inside of same shoulder as the exit hole. The broadhead was encapsulated in a tumor and the exit hole from the other shot was healed but not closed. Scar on shoulder was healed as well. The video i'm pretty sure was just the day I killed him but the time stamp is way off. Regardless it shows him using both shoulders with no trouble. Lung hits aren't a guaranteed kill.

View attachment 241040View attachment 241041View attachment 241042
View attachment 241043
Click to expand...
Truly remarkable animals
 
Ski said:
I've shown pics of it several times before but a couple years ago I killed a buck that had a hole in his armpit and scar high up on opposite shoulder where he was shot the previous season. His lungs were deformed & goofy looking but he was alive to be hunted a year later by me. Further in to the butcher job I also found another broadhead with few inches of arrow lodged in his "good" shoulder that was encapsulated in a hard tumor. He'd been double lung shot twice in his life and still survived to be a heavy 6.5yr old. I suspect the hunters both after not finding a dead buck at the end of the blood trail assumed they'd hit the "no man's land".

First pic is shoulder scar from entry. Second is hole in armpit from exit. Third is what I found lodged on inside of same shoulder as the exit hole. The broadhead was encapsulated in a tumor and the exit hole from the other shot was healed but not closed. Scar on shoulder was healed as well. The video i'm pretty sure was just the day I killed him but the time stamp is way off. Regardless it shows him using both shoulders with no trouble. Lung hits aren't a guaranteed kill.
Click to expand...

My daughter shot a doe in a food plot with her 30-30. Doe dropped like a rock, and rolled over belly up. While I was congratulating her and we were getting ready to get down out of the stand, low and behold the doe jumps up and runs off. Just a few drops of blood where the doe ran out of the plot and then into an overgrown clear-cut. Never found her, but assumed she was dead. The doe had twin fawns that year. They were with her when she was shot and the twins kept visiting that plot alone for weeks afterwards. Then I check a trail-camera over the plot and here are the twin fawns with their mother again. However, the mother has a hole in the upper part of the shoulder so big you could put your fist in. My daughter's shot had apparently hit just above the spine, hitting the vertical spinal processes, which produced enough shock to the spinal cord that it temporarily paralyzed the doe, but caused no serious harm. Watched the doe on cam for a couple of years afterwards. The big hole in her shoulder heeled but it left a nasty scar.
 
If a deer is hit in the chest cavity, it will die. You may not find blood especially if you severed the diaphragm. The intestine will enter the chest cavity and stop any bleeding. The deer will not be able to get oxygen and will die. Along the spine, there is a major artery and and it will bleed out. Deer are remarkable and could possibly survive with a hit in one lung if the plural cavity is sealed by some other means such as intestine or even skin. But once that plural cavity is breached, the lungs will not be able to function.
 
I've shot down on one with the bow about 20 yrs ago. The arrow missed the spine on the right side and excited the chest between front legs slightly on left side. Watched him bed down about 60 yds away only to be pushed off by another buck. We tracked him until blood quit not far in the track. My dad killed him with gun two weeks later. Still don't know how the arrow missed his heart but definitely got lung. He was chasing a doe when shot. Their will to live is greater than any other animal out there.
 
BSK said:
My daughter shot a doe in a food plot with her 30-30. Doe dropped like a rock, and rolled over belly up. While I was congratulating her and we were getting ready to get down out of the stand, low and behold the doe jumps up and runs off. Just a few drops of blood where the doe ran out of the plot and then into an overgrown clear-cut. Never found her, but assumed she was dead. The doe had twin fawns that year. They were with her when she was shot and the twins kept visiting that plot alone for weeks afterwards. Then I check a trail-camera over the plot and here are the twin fawns with their mother again. However, the mother has a hole in the upper part of the shoulder so big you could put your fist in. My daughter's shot had apparently hit just above the spine, hitting the vertical spinal processes, which produced enough shock to the spinal cord that it temporarily paralyzed the doe, but caused no serious harm. Watched the doe on cam for a couple of years afterwards. The big hole in her shoulder heeled but it left a nasty scar.
Click to expand...
Pics?
 
Ski said:
I've shown pics of it several times before but a couple years ago I killed a buck that had a hole in his armpit and scar high up on opposite shoulder where he was shot the previous season. His lungs were deformed & goofy looking but he was alive to be hunted a year later by me. Further in to the butcher job I also found another broadhead with few inches of arrow lodged in his "good" shoulder that was encapsulated in a hard tumor. He'd been double lung shot twice in his life and still survived to be a heavy 6.5yr old. I suspect the hunters both after not finding a dead buck at the end of the blood trail assumed they'd hit the "no man's land".

First pic is shoulder scar from entry. Second is hole in armpit from exit. Third is what I found lodged on inside of same shoulder as the exit hole. The broadhead was encapsulated in a tumor and the exit hole from the other shot was healed but not closed. Scar on shoulder was healed as well. The video i'm pretty sure was just the day I killed him but the time stamp is way off. Regardless it shows him using both shoulders with no trouble. Lung hits aren't a guaranteed kill.

View attachment 241040View attachment 241041View attachment 241042
View attachment 241043
Click to expand...
One of my friends dad killed a doe one year thst had a complete broadhead right under the spine . It was encapsulated in white looking junk . She was moving like nothing was wrong his dad said . Those whitetails are tough and have been told where them and muledeer use the same areas the whitetails bucks rule the roost !
 
Snake said:
One of my friends dad killed a doe one year thst had a complete broadhead right under the spine . It was encapsulated in white looking junk . She was moving like nothing was wrong his dad said . Those whitetails are tough and have been told where them and muledeer use the same areas the whitetails bucks rule the roost !
Click to expand...

I certainly believe it. I've heard too many reports from credible hunters about making what seemed like great shots but not killing the animal. Most times I figured maybe they just didn't see what they thought they saw, but not all of them.

Similar to your story, I was helping a buddy cape out & de-bone a big bull elk he'd killed. As we were peeling a back strap off we noticed a "knob" sticking off of a rib. Closer inspection showed that there was a big white blob of tissue stuck under the spine and the top tip of it was the knob we saw. We cut it out & cut into the blob to find a broadhead that had busted through the rib and broke off under the spine. The tumor that formed around it had also included the broken area of the rib which caused the "knob". Animals are tough. Prey animals are especially tough. They're literally built to suffer trauma without dying.
 
Ski said:
I certainly believe it. I've heard too many reports from credible hunters about making what seemed like great shots but not killing the animal. Most times I figured maybe they just didn't see what they thought they saw, but not all of them.

Similar to your story, I was helping a buddy cape out & de-bone a big bull elk he'd killed. As we were peeling a back strap off we noticed a "knob" sticking off of a rib. Closer inspection showed that there was a big white blob of tissue stuck under the spine and the top tip of it was the knob we saw. We cut it out & cut into the blob to find a broadhead that had busted through the rib and broke off under the spine. The tumor that formed around it had also included the broken area of the rib which caused the "knob". Animals are tough. Prey animals are especially tough. They're literally built to suffer trauma without dying.
Click to expand...
Killed a doe a number of years ago, and other than one hip looking a little "weak" and underdeveloped muscle-wise, she looked fine. She was walking fine when I killed her. But while butchering her, I found a broadhead in her pelvis. The arrow had been shot from above and behind, going down through the hip area into the "tunnel" through the pelvis. Pretty gross to repeat this, but upon inspection, the broadhead - blades intact - was stuck right in her vaginal canal. I feel sorry for any buck that tried to breed her. Ouch! By the amount of healing and encapsulation around the broadhead, I would say it had been in there a year or two.
 

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