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Air gap between spine and lungs?

BSK said:
Killed a doe a number of years ago, and other than one hip looking a little "weak" and underdeveloped muscle-wise, she looked fine. She was walking fine when I killed her. But while butchering her, I found a broadhead in her pelvis. The arrow had been shot from above and behind, going down through the hip area into the "tunnel" through the pelvis. Pretty gross to repeat this, but upon inspection, the broadhead - blades intact - was stuck right in her vaginal canal. I feel sorry for any buck that tried to breed her. Ouch! By the amount of healing and encapsulation around the broadhead, I would say it had been in there a year or two.
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Poor fellas. Poor girl. Poor fawns if there were any.
 
BSK said:
Actually, what I think the biggest problem is are hits high in the lungs. Sometimes these hits have to first fill the chest cavity before pouring out of the chest. In that situation, a deer can go a long way before they start bleed outwardly. I've even seen that situation with rifle and MZ hits.
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i agree but I have always called it no mans land. I know that if you high lung shoot a deer they live at least some of the times and can take a long time to die. I have done it and lost the deer. Saw the arrow hit. had blood on it, but no blood and I walked in the direction she went for a ways and never saw the first drop on the trail she was on.

Of course she could have veered, but if they don't bleed and you aren't lucky, without a dog, you lose them more times than not.
 
This one I know is hard to believe. 30 years ago I shot at a buck early morning. Pretty sure I had hit it but not positive. The sound wasn't quite right and it was about 40 yards away. I stayed in the stand and a couple of hours later he walks back in. So I am thinking I can't believe I'm going to get a second chance. I make a good shot this time and he goes down with in sight. I get down and he was hit twice. My first shot was high but did get the very top of his lungs. The second one was about 6 inches below the first one. He was eating acorns both times he came in. Both complete passthroughs.
 


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Last years buck
 
A deer is a mammal anatomically like any other. They will die if any of their primary organs gets destroyed by an arrow or bullet. They have two lungs so they can lose one and survive. Their survivability stems from their getting away from us and resting allowing their body to deal with the trauma. I believe their pain threshold is way higher than ours. So they are able to resume their normal routine much quicker than us. That routine is essential to their survival. Several times in the stories above, it was said the deer was acting normal. That's not an act. Dealing with pain and trauma is part of their DNA.
 
fairchaser said:
A deer is a mammal anatomically like any other. They will die if any of their primary organs gets destroyed by an arrow or bullet. They have two lungs so they can lose one and survive. Their survivability stems from their getting away from us and resting allowing their body to deal with the trauma. I believe their pain threshold is way higher than ours. So they are able to resume their normal routine much quicker than us. That routine is essential to their survival. Several times in the stories above, it was said the deer was acting normal. That's not an act. Dealing with pain and trauma is part of their DNA.
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In addition, there's the question of how they feel pain. Does any animal feel pain the way humans do? How much of human pain is mental? Talking to ER Docs, I can't tell you how many stories I've heard of humans not really experiencing pain from severe traumatic injuries until they understand how severe their injuries are. In essence, it's the mental aspect - the understanding of an injury and the realization that that injury should really hurt - that drives much of the pain response.
 
megalomaniac said:
Doesn't matter anatomically whats in the hollow spot.... you zip an arrow thru there and you usually aren't putting your hands on the deer. Just the way it is.
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Except there is no "hollow spot." Drive an arrow through a deer high in the chest and that arrow is cutting tissue all the way through. Cut tissue bleeds, although that is not a guarantee of lethality by any means.
 
BSK said:
Except there is no "hollow spot." Drive an arrow through a deer high in the chest and that arrow is cutting tissue all the way through. Cut tissue bleeds, although that is not a guarantee of lethality by any means.
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Technically it's a 'double lung' shot. But behaves and produces a completely different result than what we usually think of as a 'double lung' shot. For whatever pathophysiologic reason, deer just dont want to die when you stick an arrow through the periphery of the lungs. So I think the term 'hollow spot' is still quite reasonable to use.

I watched my buddy zip an arrow through an elk at 25 yards. Screwed up and shot the wrong pin and it zipped through the hollow spot. Not sure if he made it or not, but we sure never got close to putting hands on him.

I've only done it once, but didn't get a passthru and somehow pinned the scapula with the arrow so the doe couldn't run. She thrashed around for a while on the ground, but before I could get another arrow in her, she snapped off both ends of the arrow which allowed the scapula to become mobile again, so she then jumped up and ran off. Fair amount of blood for the first 25 yards, then completely ended. Never found her.
 
We always called those high muscle shots around the spine as "grease" shots, lost my biggest to date like that, he showed back up on camera 2 weeks later. Rushing the shot and incorrect yardage estimation seems to be two big factors. I'm speaking of broadheads, not bullets with their shock factor.
 
I shot a buck 3 years ago during archery and hit him high. He was on alert and he dipped down about 6 inches when I shot. The bolt has very little blood on it and had fatty like stuff all over it. Tracked him for almost 6 hours finding only specs of blood and never found him. Didn't get him back on camera at all but 3 weeks later I killed him during muzzleloader season. He had a perfectly diamond shaped hole that was infected at the very top of his back were I had hit him. The spot I hit him during archery was actually above the spine. he was chasing a doe as if nothing was ever wrong with him.
 
Before the shot.
Then two weeks after the shot.
Left side entrance.
Right side exit.
 

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