I still get my public land birds across the U.S. Always have and always will. Its just more difficult now and much more frustrating having spot after spot ruined thanks to publicity on the web. Used to could travel to get away from folks. Not anymore! On the contrary, you can almost plan a route based on where the YouTuber's hunted the previous spring. Cause the sheep follow.
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Alabama Tightening the Screws
- Thread starter Andy S.
- Start date
Yeah, pretty funny to see a non-premier WMA leading the pack on application numbers just because the cronies thought it was where their heroes hunted.
More people had time to hunt due to Covid. That was an issue as well.
I know for a fact the one that I applied for in that NF is not the one that everyone thought they were hunting. Like I said though, I've had issues with draws for the past 10+ yrs. I get drawn for that certain WMA every 4th year according to my history, yet I have friends who draw it 3 out of every 4 years. Perhaps I have been blacklisted?
I noticed you didn't address MS not doing anything to potentially discourage non-res revenue. I can't say I blame you though based on your position. The fact that other states are making changes while MS remains stagnate gives the appearance that MS values the $ far more than the resource.
I'll ask again...What do you expect to accomplish with your constant bashing of Dave and the other Youtubers?
Significant increases in apps started before COVID. You can literally track app increases with the states YouTubers hunt.
I assure you there is no 'blacklisting'. Hopefully there is a better draw system coming in the future.
I can tell you that MDWFP has an ongoing project with Mississippi State University to investigate the effects of season/regulation changes on turkey populations. If MDWFP makes a decision, they want it to be backed by science rather than theory. Personally, I've been an advocate for some changes for quite a while.
Bashing...Or speaking the truth? I'm just telling it how it is and what the future holds. And I want other turkey hunters to become aware of it. Right now, the future ain't pretty for public land/traveling turkey hunting. Not pretty at all. If mother nature doesn't cooperate soon and give us some good hatches, non-residents and public land hunters will continue to lose hunting opportunity while there is no guarantee that even a fraction of the license sales money through the "Recruit more public land turkey hunters campaign" will even be used for the benefit of the wild turkey. And there is actually a rather simple way to address this if states could get on board...A stamp/permit that is earmarked towards wild turkey or public land acquisitions. Very few license dollars are earmarked for something, all the revenue just goes into a general fund. You'll see other states with 'habitat stamps' and the like...Those are usually earmarked for land acquisition or land management. Arkansas just released a voluntary turkey stamp which funds go to their turkey program.. Get more of these earmarked licenses that go straight to benefit the wild turkey/habitat/public lands, now that is how a YouTuber could actually help! But that would involve getting into policy, showing up to commission meetings, educating their viewers, and even some politics. They now have the power and following to make a difference. Sure wish they'd do it!
Kinda like the THP guys are doing? They are raising money to help fund studies and for habitat improvements. They set a goal of 35k and darn near reached it in 2 videos. They have probably surpassed that goal by now.
Props to them for finally doing something beneficial! I'll dang sure give credit where its due. I've been too busy hunting to keep up. Sure do hope all the current turkey research can find something we've been missing. But most wildlife professionals already agree it all boils down to habitat and recruitment. And that recruitment part has been the stickler for the past decade. Here's to hoping THP can start raising a few hundred grand each year for research. These projects AREN'T cheap. They'll never be able to raise enough for the public land access required to offset this new hunting pressure they have caused. Best we can hope is it actually is a fad and folks start giving up as the hunting gets more difficult and frustrating.
It'd make me feel better if states banned the practice of commercial use/making a profit of our public lands. Or at least require a permitting system with hefty costs attached. Depending on how long this current trend lasts, I wouldn't doubt seeing regulations like the above implemented in the future. I'm pretty sure Missouri already has something similar. They may not allow filming on state owned conservation areas for commercial use? Can't remember the specifics, been a minute since I looked it up.
There is a recent federal court case about film permits on federal lands. Basically, "A federal judge has struck down as unconstitutional the National Park Service's practice of charging commercial filmmakers who want to shoot in the National Park System, ruling it is a protected activity under the First Amendment."
Can read about it at the following link:
Judge: Commercial Filmmakers Don't Need Permits In National Parks
A federal judge has struck down as unconstitutional the National Park Service's practice of charging commercial filmmakers who want to shoot in the National Park System, ruling it is a protected activity under the First Amendment.
www.nationalparkstraveler.org
So looks like they will always be free to film their hunts on federal lands. Not surprising. Fortunately most states out west already have a good grasp on protecting their resource with permit allocations, draws, etc. Which is very possibly coming for turkey too at this current path. Or can just take the Bama approach and push public land seasons way back and drastically reduce opportunity.
Just imagine if Iowa didn't have a point system for non-res deer hunters. That's a prime example of valuing the resource more than the $. It's not necessary for MS to change the season structure to make a difference.
Yes, bashing. You literally mention "Youtube" or "Youtuber" negatively in almost every single post you make on this forum and others. You've made your point repeatedly about the disdain you have for that arena. It's evident where you stand. However, you can't put the blame on solely on them. Think about how/where you got your info when you started travelling. The internet has been very good to you, yes? I'll say it again, the snowball really started rolling with people saying too much on forums and Facebook, Youtube just helped it roll a little faster.
Here's the FY2021 report on license sales data for all states. Check this out:
Bama - Resident Sales: $9,700,295 Non-resident Sales: $6,715,734
Iowa - Resident Sales: $12,654,471 Non-resident Sales: $5,250,727
Miss. - Resident Sales: $4,729,196 Non-resident Sales: $7,796,435
Pretty crazy, eh?
I'm not naive enough to think its only YouTube. The Facebook Groups have hurt us and Instagram has commercialized it.
Yup, loose lips on forums have gotten me a lot of turkey over the years! After the biological data, my research always goes to forum searches next. Forums are what ruined the good old days of Kansas.
Agree 100% on your last sentence. YouTube and social media just caused exponential growth of what was already happening.
Yes that is very interesting data, especially when you compare it to their estimated 2021 populations:
AL - 5.10 million
Iowa - 3.21 million
MS - 2.98 million
Looks like MS and AL residents are paying comparable amounts to hunt/fish. It also appears that Iowa residents don't mind paying more in order to protect their resource.
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doesn't look like you have to give it up. Just go shoot one and then try to get back later.
The 90/10 "view point" for me stems from hunting Western states. Take a look at general/over the counter units and success rates hoover around 10%+\-, especially with archery. It's usually the same hunters year over year having the success too. It's more of a generality but harvest stats back it up pretty dang close.
Take a look here, hunters like DA kill way more deer than I do and Picketstateforest blows my Turkey average out of the water.
I did find this article which states that Nationwide, hunters were 48% successful at killing one deer then dropped to 27% for killing at least 2. So you can use your imagination and see that very few hunters make up a huge portion of the stats.
Which State Has the Most Successful Hunters? - NDA
Which region and state have the most successful deer hunters? In 2017, the Southeast took top honors with South Carolina leading the way. We determined this by surveying every state and provincial wildlife agency on the percentage of hunters who harvested at least one deer and the percentage who...www.deerassociation.com
Like I said, it's a general rule and specific to my experiences but it's probably not that too far fetched.
Thanks for the info, I've heard that 10% kill 90%, but I have a hard time believing that, especially when it come to turkeys. i know of 11 people that killed 2 or 3 in their first year of turkey hunting over last 2 years. I have a buddy that i got started turkey hunting 10 years ago, he has tagged out every year after that first one.
When it comes to deer, I know a few guys along with myself that kill 6-15 deer a season, even in the less liberal units of the East.
For all of those who care about the future of public land turkey hunting, read th88's comments over the last few posts. It behooves me to think there are hunters among us who REPEATEDLY post vital insider information on forums, social media and YouTube without any regard for the potential negative impacts of the sport, limited access and resource going forward. I am sorry, you have to think past your nose before doing these things. As mentioned above, it has been ongoing for a decade, but the snowball has really gained momentum in the last few years and the effects are being felt across the board, by all parties involved, even those mostly responsible. I highly suspect more stringent regulations and application procedures are forthcoming to curb the repeated careless exploitation of the species.
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megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
We aren't talking about the fellows killing 2 or 3 a year in TN, we are talking Nationwide. The 10% ers are killing 2 or 3 in TN, PLUS another 10 each spring in other states.
Nothing wrong with that, tons of nonresident $$$s infused into state wildlife agencies, but like th88 said, almost none of that is going back into turkeys.
With so many people becoming more effective turkey hunters (killers), the resource just can't handle the increased pressure/killing, ESPECIALLY on public lands.
There has to be a balance between what is best for the turkeys and what is best for the wildlife agencies. If the agencies get it wrong and the resource isn't managed properly, both will end up suffering.
I think the problem is going to fix itself though. As populations decline and pressure increases, fewer people will be willing to travel for a week of hiking and no gobbles.
AlabamaSwamper
Well-Known Member
Of course they removed the private part. Chuck and the rich CAB members would be limited also.
turkey populations in Alabama are falling fast. Same thing that happened in southern Tennessee. Kinda awkward that the worst hit areas have the biggest concentrations of a certain industry.
turkey populations in Alabama are falling fast. Same thing that happened in southern Tennessee. Kinda awkward that the worst hit areas have the biggest concentrations of a certain industry.
I've been preaching this for as long as the forums have been around some people just don't get it. I even had to get on my ole friend th88 many years ago.
As far as 10/90 rule. I believe that got thrown out of the window many years ago with gobbler decoys, and when the fanning videos started surfacing their ugly head it got worse. Anyone that has property with turkeys to hunt especially agricultural/ field areas can walk smooth out of wallyworld with a tent and a wad of decoys and become a instant facebook turkey killing sensation. I wish they would look at controlling these methods before making changes to my time afield.
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It's law now, and in the Alabama Hunting & Trapping Guide.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
What's the definition of of a 'GOBBLER' to them? (Seriously, I have no idea). Can I kill a slick legged bird with a full fan, a softball sized head, 1in beard from beard rot?
And do the counties with fall season have THAT many more birds than the rest of the state?
More than just a coincidence their NW counties are just south of TNs counties with the dramatic decline? Somebody set off a turkey warhead killing them off in mass? Interesting. Wish we could figure out what caused the rapid decline in 2 different states without affecting the rest of each state relatively.
Regardless... gonna be a lot of changes to turkey regs all over the US in the next few years due to the rapidity of their decline almost surpassing their rapidity of increase a decade ago.
And do the counties with fall season have THAT many more birds than the rest of the state?
More than just a coincidence their NW counties are just south of TNs counties with the dramatic decline? Somebody set off a turkey warhead killing them off in mass? Interesting. Wish we could figure out what caused the rapid decline in 2 different states without affecting the rest of each state relatively.
Regardless... gonna be a lot of changes to turkey regs all over the US in the next few years due to the rapidity of their decline almost surpassing their rapidity of increase a decade ago.
Rakkin6
Well-Known Member
Andy Alabama had a 5 bird limit? That's insane, I never knew their limit was that high.
