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Are heavily hunted mature bucks with big racks that survive just lucky?

fairchaser

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I've been thinking, which is dangerous, if big ole bucks who are hunted hard just lucky or are they skilled beyond most of our ability to kill them?

I know it's got to be some of both but how much? Love to hear your perspectives. I have an opinion but love to hear yours.
 
I'd say 50/50.
It seemed the harder I hunted a big buck the harder it was to see him. Until he was nocturnal where I had permission to hunt him. A mature deer can pattern a hunter fairly quickly. IMHO.
The first time you go after "the one" is your best chance to kill him.
Id agree. But i think hunter density and terrain type is key. Farmland deer where their are crops and open hardwoods, it is very difficult for a large racked buck (even if he is younger age class) to survive.

In hilly nasty terrain with few fields , a buck doesnt have to be as lucky. Some of the best deer i have seen taken in my area have come of rocky, cedar junk land littered with rocks and poor drainage. Those deer can live to be old and while the density isnt as high, there are some old jokers in there
 
It sets up for an awesome thread.

You killed a big old buck this year on heavily hunted land. I want to hear your perspective!

I don't think deer are super smart. They will run in front of cars on the highway for a hot piece of tail. They make mistakes. It's on us to use our biggest advantage our brain to capitalize on them. Deer have excellent survival instincts and the older bucks have the best instincts because we are all after that old big racked buck.

I'm on public. Im fluid. I'm constantly moving changing and adapting. The deer are also moving with pressure and preferred foods available. (I am also pressure! I can't act like every time I step into their world I am impacting it) It's my job to find where the deer want to be and when they want to be there. We as hunters try to hard to draw deer into areas they don't want to be. I want to Slip in and ambush them and make the very most out of the first time I go in.

The rules constantly change, the landscape changes and hunting pressure changes. Good and great spots often change by the week. Right place right time is a big factor. If you sit the same 3 spots all season long you are going to get a few good hunts per season but it won't last and you are limiting yourself.

Deer need two primary things right now! They need security and groceries. They don't know distances from roads, road noises, too much water, too thick. They glide right through the stuff. If they have both together they will be on their feet and moving throughout the day.

I think there are pockets that deer move into that hunters can't get to without the deer knowing it first. And honestly, humans just flat out don't and can't get to them. It's too wet, too deep, too far to walk with waders stand gear and weapon. Right now, there's too much seasonal water and the swamps in west TN are a safe haven this time of year, if the bucks needed it. The big old buck might have a SAFE private land spot near a corn feeder where hunters aren't currently hunting. Hes likely bedded in a way to see the ole hunter/farmer unlock the gate and drive in. He knows when it's safe to step out and when he needs to sit tight till after dark and the truck leaves.

Now another twist. It depends on the food!!! During late season the deer need the groceries to survive. There is a lot more hunting pressure now on public lands than on private lands. Duck hunters push bucks out of some swamps and they stack in others where they are safe if there is enough preferred food. If not the deer might migrate to the private ag where a higher nutritional source of food is available.

Most deer and big mature bucks included are social creatures. (Most) Never all, cause they are quite individualistic. The ones I have seen usually have other deer nearby or in the general vicinity.

They watch other deer alert to danger and the older bucks are the first ones to drop their head and tuck their tail and slip out of the area. They typically have a very good escape plan, when bedded.

Big bucks have their own unique quirks that have kept them alive. I find deer using late season food sources like red oak acorns and green briar on public. This year, it's looking more vacant than years past. Bad acorn crop? who knows, I just mark it off my list of areas that I'm going to try this year.

Also currently everything is underwater here, it's Kneedeep swamps. This will also change things. They have no problem walking and moving through water. They will move through it and shake off like a dog no problem. One thing I've never seen though is a deer bobbing for acorns! They have a hard time feeding on submerged acorns and deer don't bed down in water. So they will need at least a bit of high ground to bed down on and some good forage.

If they have soy beans or corn or better browse on a private property ag field and aren't being shot they would likely choose that.

Anyway, A lot of that is my opinion of things. I want to here your take on things fairchaser.
 
I think that some big bucks have just lived long enough to be a big buck by being unconventional. They have hung out in areas with very little hunting pressure or are mainly nocturnal, not necessarily because of pressure just the way they are wired. I also think that some bucks grow old because thy don't have the drive to recklessly chase does during the rut.
 
My thoughts… I think many survive simply by being loners. That alone probably helps them stay alive. Being largely nocturnal probably helps too, and just living their lives on the fringes mostly. I also wonder, and have for a very long time, if the biggest antlered bucks are really prolific breeders. I'm starting to think they aren't.

I also think that there just aren't that many of what we consider true giant bucks around to hunt. There are more around now than in decades past, for sure. I'm talking huge headgear, not necessarily age. Our age classes are better than ever, but that doesn't always mean huge antlers go with it.
 
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I like the 50/50 term . But would like to say my opinion it is 60/40 or less . How did big bucks get big ? Not by being dumb ....but in hind sight they still are a dumb animal .

Bucks or really just say mature deer will live to be at an older age if they rely solely upon their God given senses. But one sense in the buck has lead to his demise more than other senses ....the desire to breed !

Read an article once about a huge buck that was literally unkillable . Think he was killed by a vehical at night . This buck was sterile ! So no desire to breed so he out smarted all the hunters that hunted him . The article said they thought that alot of the older mature bucks could be sterile.

Why for hunters hold out for mature bucks ? Some on here have even said that they don't care about antlers but target mature bucks . I can understand to a point but they hunt larger bucks for an entirely different reason than me and for that I understand.

Shooting a really good 3.5 year old buck is a preference for me than a 5.5 year old buck with inferior racks but to others it wouldn't be. Mature older bucks carry a certain majestic style with their walk ....prancing around being the top dog in the hierarchy of the deer herd . IMO I think that is a certain type of accomplishment to a hunter to be able to kill the top dog ! Reread @fairchaser 's post !
 
I like the 50/50 term . But would like to say my opinion it is 60/40 or less . How did big bucks get big ? Not by being dumb ....but in hind sight they still are a dumb animal .
Then there is the question; Do deer have the ability to reason?!

In spite of every method, thought or factor many of them do live long enough to fool the hunter if not make him feel like a fool. Those are the ones that get called a ghost. In spite of every advantage it would seem, all the most modern gadgets and technology and yet somehow he manages to not be there.
 
Deer have a natural wariness that gets honed by age and experience. They also have competing traits such as curiosity, pugnaciousness, the urge to breed, etc.

Bucks in whom wariness and experience developing humans as a threat are traits dominant to the competing urges, are less likely to be careless and more likely to survive the hunting season.

Bucks that survive also hold cover that is overlooked by hunters.
 
I've been thinking, which is dangerous, if big ole bucks who are hunted hard just lucky or are they skilled beyond most of our ability to kill them?

Probably neither. Being hunted hard isn't the same as being hunted effectively.

They don't have super intelligence or a four leaf clover in their behind. They simply have a completely different nature than all other deer so typical deer hunting strategy doesn't apply. It's cliché to say but they really are like a completely different species, and you have to hunt them accordingly. Once you understand that and adjust your strategy, killing older bucks becomes much more achievable.
 
Then there is the question; Do deer have the ability to reason?!

In spite of every method, thought or factor many of them do live long enough to fool the hunter if not make him feel like a fool. Those are the ones that get called a ghost. In spite of every advantage it would seem, all the most modern gadgets and technology and yet somehow he manages to not be there.
In my quote saying still a dumb animal meaning they have no logic in crossing a roadway ....they will run right out in front of a vehical . They rarely stop and look both ways before crossing. They do other dumb things especially during the rut . I was on the ground once an a decent eight point was following a doe no more than 10 yards from me .....he seen me but didn't run away he actually ran towards me because that's the way the doe ran . Of course you-know-what the ending was .....no breeding for him .
 
Biggest deer ever killed on our lease was killed this year. Not a single picture of him that we know of… ever. Just walked out in a field 50 yards in front of a dude in a shooting box. What caused him to be there and to walk out in the open in daylight? Dumb luck? Maybe pressure from wherever he came from? Didn't appear to be following a doe. This is a 6600 acre lease and between everyone probably 30+ cameras out. I think randomness or "luck" plays a big part
 
I think there used to be some skill to it on the bucks part but technology has pretty well made it luck around here for a big one to make it. Once a big one is spotted here during the summer, it will have all resources known to man after it until it's dead. That includes of course an army of cell cams, thermal scopes, and thermal drones. It ain't hard to bait one up to a cell cam, get a drone in the air when it comes, and track it until you can get ahead and get a shot. I knew one really big buck that survived that very scenario this year(probably only because they mistook his running buddy for him in the thermal scope when taking the shot), that buck moved over across a big holler out of the area after that incident but was then legally taken thankfully. Many other big bucks have not been so fortunate and get killed.
 
In spite of every advantage it would seem, all the most modern gadgets and technology and yet somehow he manages to not be there.

In my experience older bucks are always on the move. Technology tells you where/when he was and the conditions at the time. That's just enough to make you chase your tail. You either accurately predict where/when he'll be and beat him there, or else you don't kill him. He's so mobile that you're lucky if you realistically have one window in a season to make it happen. Seems like astronomically low odds but some guys get it done with regularity. Most get it done rarely if ever at all.
 
Both and neither. Depends on farm depends on the hunter depends on a lot. If we have a deer we want to kill and we don't kill him in my mind it's 100 percent out fault. We messed it up somewhere or another. Call that luck or skill from the deer but they are deer doing deer things. We are the ones with the problem solving brains. And a lot of times we mess it up. The other thing that makes it tough is you generally only have one chance every now and then 2. And you have to capitalize on that chance.
 
I don't know what to think. The place I hunt is a cattle farm. The guy that owns the cattle doesn't hunt. I run a trail camera over a salt block on the only part of the farm the cattle are not on. He's on the farm every other day or so checking the cattle, fixing fences and in the fall he's there more when he starts feeding hay. I believe he sees every deer including the most mature bucks pretty regularly. I talk to him every day or two and he tells me about what he's seen. What he has told me has helped me kill a few of the best bucks that I've got. I asked him once if he could have killed any of the mature bucks if he had a gun with him. He said he could have killed all of them if he wanted to if it wasn't for the fact that he couldn't hit the side of the barn with a gun. He leaves the tractor there year round. He's always telling me that I need to just ride around on it instead of climbing trees. So I don't know how smart an old buck is if he could kill them off his tractor. I wonder though if a man killed a few that way if they would suddenly all disappear when they heard a tractor start up?
 
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I don't know what to think. The place I hunt is a cattle farm. The guy that owns the cattle doesn't hunt. I run a trail camera over a salt block on the only part of the farm the cattle are not on. He's on the farm every other day or so checking the cattle, fixing fences and in the fall he's there more when he starts feeding hay. I believe he sees every deer including the most mature bucks pretty regularly. I talk to him every day or two and he tells me about what he's seen. What he has told me has helped me kill a few of the best bucks that I've got. I asked him once if he could have killed any of the mature bucks if he had a gun with him. He said he could have killed all of them if he wanted to if it wasn't for the fact that he couldn't hit the side of the barn with a gun. He leaves the tractor there year round. He's always telling me that I need to just ride around on it instead of climbing trees. So I don't know how smart an old buck is if he could kill them off his tractor. I wonder though if a man killed a few that way if they would suddenly all disappear when they heard a tractor start up.

The biggest bucks I've seen killed years ago were mostly killed by farmers feeding livestock.

A few were buddies of mine and they got a giggle out of showing me Polaroids of what they killed putting out hay on their tractors, with a beat up old 30/06 that stayed in their tractor cabs.
 
I don't know what to think. The place I hunt is a cattle farm. The guy that owns the cattle doesn't hunt. I run a trail camera over a salt block on the only part of the farm the cattle are not on. He's on the farm every other day or so checking the cattle, fixing fences and in the fall he's there more when he starts feeding hay. I believe he sees every deer including the most mature bucks pretty regularly. I talk to him every day or two and he tells me about what he's seen. What he has told me has helped me kill a few of the best bucks that I've got. I asked him once if he could have killed any of the mature bucks if he had a gun with him. He said he could have killed all of them if he wanted to if it wasn't for the fact that he couldn't hit the side of the barn with a gun. He leaves the tractor there year round. He's always telling me that I need to just ride around on it instead of climbing trees. So I don't know how smart an old buck is if he could kill them off his tractor. I wonder though if a man killed a few that way if they would suddenly all disappear when they heard a tractor start up?
The amount of deer I see of a tractor through the year is quite astonishing.
 
Biggest deer ever killed on our lease was killed this year. Not a single picture of him that we know of… ever. Just walked out in a field 50 yards in front of a dude in a shooting box. What caused him to be there and to walk out in the open in daylight? Dumb luck? Maybe pressure from wherever he came from? Didn't appear to be following a doe. This is a 6600 acre lease and between everyone probably 30+ cameras out. I think randomness or "luck" plays a big part
Never rule out he got killed because he was looking at females and not paying attention to his surroundings
 

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