• Help Support TNDeer:

Are heavily hunted mature bucks with big racks that survive just lucky?

I've been thinking, which is dangerous, if big ole bucks who are hunted hard just lucky or are they skilled beyond most of our ability to kill them?

I know it's got to be some of both but how much? Love to hear your perspectives. I have an opinion but love to hear yours.
I think we confuse "smart" with educated. Some bucks participate a lot in the rut. Some not that much. Some travel long distances, some don't.

Certainly a deer that has been around longer has been "educated" more. If you combine a buck that doesn't expose himself to lots of risk and ends up making it to mature age, then yeah, I think he's "smarter" than other deer in the woods.

But I don't think he made it to old age because he was innately smarter.
 
A really interesting secondary thought to this... out in Kansas where the rut occurs during bowseason, and hunters are much pickier with their one tag, bucks often encounter humans and.... nothing happens.

They smell a human. Nothing happens. They see a human. Nothing happens.

Eventually they get a little more comfortable with encounters with humans, and it makes it a lot easier to kill a 4.5+ buck in Kansas than at Oak Ridge or LBL.
 
A really interesting secondary thought to this... out in Kansas where the rut occurs during bowseason, and hunters are much pickier with their one tag, bucks often encounter humans and.... nothing happens.

They smell a human. Nothing happens. They see a human. Nothing happens.

Eventually they get a little more comfortable with encounters with humans, and it makes it a lot easier to kill a 4.5+ buck in Kansas than at Oak Ridge or LBL.
Good observation. Deer must react to their environment and discern danger vs non danger. They can't run or hide from everything. The more hunting pressure, the more fear of hunters and their smells. Hunting IA, or KS vs public land in TN are very different. I've hunted both. For that reason, public land hunters in the South are among the best hunters as they must adapt to enjoy any success imo.
 
A really interesting secondary thought to this... out in Kansas where the rut occurs during bowseason, and hunters are much pickier with their one tag, bucks often encounter humans and.... nothing happens.

They smell a human. Nothing happens. They see a human. Nothing happens.

Eventually they get a little more comfortable with encounters with humans, and it makes it a lot easier to kill a 4.5+ buck in Kansas than at Oak Ridge or LBL.
There is a lot of truth here. If small bucks are continually passed due to size restraints they become less skittish. If deer are regularly exposed to human invasions at day and night for weeks at a time with only limited hunting during "quota" type hunts, same thing.
 
Excellent comments gentleman. I would just like to add public land vs. private land makes a huge difference. Also, the state you hunt in makes a huge difference. Hunting deer in Florida swamps vs. Tennessee deer vs. Utah desert deer makes a huge difference.
 
Not to be too anthropomorphic but I liken mature bucks to old men. They're tired, arthritic, in constant pain, stiff, have lost much hearing and sight, and generally have incredibly low tolerance for extended social pressure. So they hole up alone where they're not likely to be bothered or forced to move, and they only get up when they need to eat then right back to the recliner they go.

During rut, if they rut, they have a gigantic loop mapped out out where they already know from experience there are going to be hot does at specific times. He slowly but surely covers that loop, not chasing young does but rather breeding their mother's and grandmothers that are expecting him.

I could be entirely wrong about that but it's the only way I've been able to make sense of old buck behavior. Most of the biggest oldest bucks I've killed were expected because they had been through before around the same time. Not not before and not after, but inside a very tight window of days. The first buck i killed this season was a perfect example. Years of pics during early November only. He came out tending an old doe and was stiff legged and slow. He could barely run. When butchering I found his right front ACL was gone and knee was calcified. He came out around other deer only to breed. Otherwise he stayed laid up alone somewhere.
I totally resemeble your comments lol….and agree. Especially in super old bucks. I think thats y some bucks are easier to kill when they get really old. Studies from MSU have consistently revealed that a bucks core area shrinks as they advance into old age
 
good point. from the biologists that i subscribe to, they say 5.5 is when a buck has to ability to express its maximum antler growth potential. if i recall correctly, that number is 95%+ of their antler potential at 5.5. 85-90% at 4.5. 80-85% at 3.5. rough numbers going off memory, i'm sure its posted somewhere.

a recent youtube series that MSU Deer Labs did discussed buck harvest strategies. there are 8 videos that are between 10-15 minutes each. here is the first in that series:

I agree 5.5 is the magic age, but have seen some 6.5 yr olds that added some unique points and rack features even though their frame and tine length might have regressed a bit
 
Excellent comments gentleman. I would just like to add public land vs. private land makes a huge difference. Also, the state you hunt in makes a huge difference. Hunting deer in Florida swamps vs. Tennessee deer vs. Utah desert deer makes a huge difference.
Depends on how the public is managed. If it is open all season like most of TN public then deer are harassed for months and difficult to find sometimes. If sections are closed quite frequently to hunting but have plenty of human activity or only open for "quota" type hunts then the deer are not as skittish. At least that is what I tell myself and have observed.
 
Excellent comments gentleman. I would just like to add public land vs. private land makes a huge difference. Also, the state you hunt in makes a huge difference. Hunting deer in Florida swamps vs. Tennessee deer vs. Utah desert deer makes a huge difference.
It's does but pressure is the number 1 issue on public land. And big deer don't do well with pressure.
 
Depends on how the public is managed. If it is open all season like most of TN public then deer are harassed for months and difficult to find sometimes. If sections are closed quite frequently to hunting but have plenty of human activity or only open for "quota" type hunts then the deer are not as skittish. At least that is what I tell myself and have observed.
Good points. Problem in FL public land is hunters in the field for multiple species pretty much meant hunters in the field year round. Out west was different with BLM land you could go days without seeing a hunter but deer were scarce.
 
I also often wonder the story behind a big mature buck. How many hunters have they got around? How many times have they been let walk by someone? I've wondered this a bunch on the biggest deer I've ever killed. I had never seen him before or had any pictures of him, but he strolled through while I was there. He had battle scars and often wonder his story. How many people did have pics of him and were hunting him? I know the final chapter and glad to know that but just wonder what he encountered through the years.
I also have wondered the same thing about my largest buck. He showed up during the rut in 2021. Before that I had never gotten a picture of him except maybe once in January several years before as an exceptional young main frame 10.

I found out after the fact that multiple folks were hunting him and trespassing all around me to try to kill him.
 
In regards to killing mature bucks, I wonder if older bucks some times shift their core area or shift to a different rut range than in years before which gets them exposed to unexpected pressure which ends up being their demise.

I have no real proof of this but I definitely have anecdotal evidence that this occurs on our farm with trail cam pics. It may be that I just didn't get pics in prior years….
 
In regards to killing mature bucks, I wonder if older bucks some times shift their core area or shift to a different rut range than in years before which gets them exposed to unexpected pressure which ends up being their demise.

I have no real proof of this but I definitely have anecdotal evidence that this occurs on our farm with trail cam pics. It may be that I just didn't get pics in prior years….
I believe that some, not all 2 and 3 year olds will travel outside their home ranges during the rut to seek estrus does. They will walk until they get killed. This is when we will see outsider bucks on our cameras. They may only come through once unless they find a doe. Shop till they drop, so to speak. I've seen it a few times in my career. Usually they are totally unaware they are walking into a trap.
 
Have pictures and video of a buck the last 7 seasons.. atleast 3 others have pics of him also……. This deer hasn't been seen by eyesight that we know of!!! He is a true ghost!
That's truly ancient buck. We all have those ghosts in our hunting life that take on names like The Phantom and Goliath. Good luck with him!
 
That's truly ancient buck. We all have those ghosts in our hunting life that take on names like The Phantom and Goliath. Good luck with him!

When I was a young school boy I always looked forward to the bus ride because there was a chance I'd get to see "Old Iron Sides" as we passed the orchard. He was an outright behemoth of a deer and every hunter in the county knew about him. Several had stories of shooting at him, hence the name. He finally fell to a kid who lived at the orchard. I don't know what he scored but I vividly remember the picture of the kid sitting inside that 12pt frame like s king on a throne. As hard as that buck was hunted he was still always visible enough to be a well known local legend.
 
Last edited:
I've been thinking, which is dangerous, if big ole bucks who are hunted hard just lucky or are they skilled beyond most of our ability to kill them?

I know it's got to be some of both but how much? Love to hear your perspectives. I have an opinion but love to hear yours.
I agree with a little of both. Big racked old bucks are rare. For a buck to express his full genetic potential and express it in away that equals a lot of inches, he has to be able to grow old. He needs the nutrition and habitat to live out the years without succumbing to a myriad of things that can kill him.
Big bucks learn or are forced to survive by adapting their routines/patterns to their environment. They aren't sitting behind their computers going over the trail camera photos of hunters and coyotes but reacting to their surroundings all the time. When they fail, they die.
 
Mature bucks have personalities just like people, and some are more prone to lead Loner hermit like lives, while others live somewhat more Social lives. Both of which is much more reclusive than young bucks and Does of all ages. Hunting older age class mature bucks, is so different than just simply "deer" hunting, and frankly many many hunters never learn to hunt them with any type of consistent success because they like to see "deer" on most of their hunts. In pressured areas these old bucks live entirely separate lives from all the other "deer", especially during daylight hours. The size of the rack is irrelevant as its the age in most cases that makes the difference. imo anyway
 
Heres an example. This is a rutted out 4.5 yr old buck named Larry. He is a regular. I could kill him virtually every afternoon feeding in my interior corn field. He comes well before daylight ends most days. I figure him around 130 gross. Is he smart? No. Is he lucky? Only because i value him more as a 5.5 yr old .
This will be interesting to see what kind of jump he may have next year. Hope he sticks around for you.
 
I think there used to be some skill to it on the bucks part but technology has pretty well made it luck around here for a big one to make it. Once a big one is spotted here during the summer, it will have all resources known to man after it until it's dead. That includes of course an army of cell cams, thermal scopes, and thermal drones. It ain't hard to bait one up to a cell cam, get a drone in the air when it comes, and track it until you can get ahead and get a shot. I knew one really big buck that survived that very scenario this year(probably only because they mistook his running buddy for him in the thermal scope when taking the shot), that buck moved over across a big holler out of the area after that incident but was then legally taken thankfully. Many other big bucks have not been so fortunate and get killed.


Stuff like this on some of the land I have to share with others have really made me dislike deer hunting. Or that area specifically. At least I have other places.
 
Back
Top