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Woodsman10":emxknkid said:
I don't care how good you are at turkey calling, if the woods are too open and he can see along ways he probably ain't going to come.
Correct, however, the solution to this, at least some of the time, is the right setup. I do my best to choose a spot that guarantees him to be in range as soon as he comes into view (25-45 yards). With that said, I have had numerous hang up over the years just off the slope, or just below the crest of the ridge. I could hear them strutting, drumming and walking in the leaves, but never could make them commit. Soft calls, scratching in the leaves, going silent, it don't matter, some birds are just stubborn as h*ll and live to see another day. That's what makes it so much fun!
 
I just love to hunt em from the beginning to the end. If I had to choose I would pick either week in May over any week in April. I have no preference over vegetation or bare woods. I just look for setups that will offer me the best percentage for success
 
TheLBLman":nsmkkkah said:
megalomaniac":nsmkkkah said:
There is something potentially alarming about the recent trend of the season's kill becoming frontloaded to the extreme in first 7 days of the season however. I surmise . . . . that the season is becoming so frontloaded because of the overall decline in population.

Can we continue present season dates, kill limits, etc??? Not without accepting the FACT that TN's turkey population will CONTINUE to slowly decline. A few simple tweaks could reverse that trend. For example, making jakes illegal to kill . . . . . Pushing season opener back 2 weeks . . . . . . Eliminate fall hunting. Keep the 4 gobbler limit... or heck, raise it to unlimited in the spring.... as long as there are adult males to breed all the hens prior to killing them, it won't hurt the population (but we won't be hunting for anything except 2 y/o birds... trophy birds would be rare as hen turkey teeth!).
I agree -- spot on.

However, I believe we all that's needed to reverse this trend is even less than you stated (some respects).
I'd like to see turkey season open just one week later, the annual limit go from 4 to 2 or 3, and of course, eliminate that fall hunting BEFORE it becomes a yet bigger issue by it's promotion. ONLY in the fall are females being killed in masse (legally), and by only a tiny percentage of those who turkey hunt period.

Interesting to note, it has been TN's most southern counties that have generally had the greatest population declines.
Then note, where do turkeys tend to breed earliest? Opening the season only a week later MIGHT have prevented the worst of this?
fall season has been cut back to 1 bird per county that is open. No more shooting 2, 3 4 or even 6 at a time. Fall hunting isn't popular enough I don't think it is a problem where the populations are OK. I still saw tons of birds on the public land last fall and they've been looking just as good for the past several years.


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I actually am starting to agree with catman on the fall seasons they've been knocked back where they shouldn't have much of an impact. Additionally I don't know of a single bird killed this year during the fall season out of any one I know.

There's a larger unknown factor affecting the population, it's also hitting the grouse numbers in recent years. It may be weathe, disease, or something else but it is having an affect.

I still do however stand behind that decoys, blinds, fanning, etc are causing far more birds to be killed then in years prior to their arrival. This has to have an impact on gobbler numbers at some point.
 
Andy S.":36p9nhy4 said:
Woodsman10":36p9nhy4 said:
I don't care how good you are at turkey calling, if the woods are too open and he can see along ways he probably ain't going to come.
Correct, however, the solution to this, at least some of the time, is the right setup. I do my best to choose a spot that guarantees him to be in range as soon as he comes into view (25-45 yards). With that said, I have had numerous hang up over the years just off the slope, or just below the crest of the ridge. I could hear them strutting, drumming and walking in the leaves, but never could make them commit. Soft calls, scratching in the leaves, going silent, it don't matter, some birds are just stubborn as h*ll and live to see another day. That's what makes it so much fun!

Yes sir, that was my point. I always try to use terrain features in my set up.

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Setterman":25oy8h03 said:
I actually am starting to agree with catman on the fall seasons they've been knocked back where they shouldn't have much of an impact. Additionally I don't know of a single bird killed this year during the fall season out of any one I know.

There's a larger unknown factor affecting the population, it's also hitting the grouse numbers in recent years. It may be weathe, disease, or something else but it is having an affect.

I still do however stand behind that decoys, blinds, fanning, etc are causing far more birds to be killed then in years prior to their arrival. This has to have an impact on gobbler numbers at some point.
I agree, as you have said for a long time, they allow unkillable birds to be killed. And allow hunters who can't kill be able to kill.
Unfortunately, it will be here for ever because of money.

I'm somewhat in the belief though that bag limits are set ok, fall season is ok too.
The spring season may need to be moved 10-14 days back in order to make sure all hens are being bred before gobblers are killed.

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Roost 1":39oz2uiz said:
Eliminate the ridiculous feeding until 10 days before you hunt rule and you might see those front end numbers go down some......
I agree with this. I would think that alot of people leave it up no matter what though. I've had several instances where it seems like a gobbler would live on the same 100 yard radius on someone else's property everyday of the season. I always thought there might be a feeder up there.

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Roost 1":1j1v7ky2 said:
Eliminate the ridiculous feeding until 10 days before you hunt rule and you might see those front end numbers go down some......
I agree 110%. I was thinking about this yesterday. Opening weekend is when the most people are in the woods, and it is when the most turkeys across the state have been on a winter feeding pattern hitting a feeder or pile or corn like clock work (hundreds of trail cam pics shared online each year substantiate this, at least on private ground). Once season starts and hunters shoot into them, the flock scatters, become more wary, and the hunters are less likely to put out more corn, at least I would think that be the case. I am sure there are some who never look back and keep pouring it to them. Overall, I would attribute the feeding up to 10 days before season to be a much bigger factor in the inflated opening weekend kill numbers when compared to fanning, decoys, etc.
 
Roost 1":3ileu9xr said:
Eliminate the ridiculous feeding until 10 days before you hunt rule and you might see those front end numbers go down some......

No doubt, you don't have to look very far to find evidence of this...
 
Setterman":1tuyhidy said:
Andy S.":1tuyhidy said:
catman529":1tuyhidy said:
.....but I'm guessing it's more to do with people getting fired up and going and killing a bird or two and then getting burned out and quitting.
......as well as getting distracted by traveling baseball/softball, crappie fishing, camping, spring festivals and car shows, etc. There are very few turkey hunters who eat, live and breathe it like we do and try their best to stay in the woods until season ends, either hunting, or guiding if they have tagged out early. Another thing, you would not believe how many turkey hunters I've encountered over the years that will only hunt first week or so because they claim they've seen more snakes middle to latter part of the season. I wish more were like them. :P
Exactly and so many turkey hunters throw in the towel the first silent morning of the season. I know for me I could go two weeks not hearing a peep and if I've got an empty tag I'm still going. It's a disease and after a while you learn that even when it's brutally tough it can all change in seconds and a bird is dead or on his way to dying. For the diehards they embrace the season from day one until it's over, the good and the bad. It's all part of it and the spring woods are a wonderful place.

Wish there were more snakes maybe we'd have the woods to ourselves :D

This is how it is for me. I enjoy turkey hunting so much I enjoy each day of the season and every minute in the woods.


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Andy S.":1zvdtl8t said:
Roost 1":1zvdtl8t said:
Eliminate the ridiculous feeding until 10 days before you hunt rule and you might see those front end numbers go down some......
I agree 110%. I was thinking about this yesterday. Opening weekend is when the most people are in the woods, and it is when the most turkeys across the state have been on a winter feeding pattern hitting a feeder or pile or corn like clock work (hundreds of trail cam pics shared online each year substantiate this, at least on private ground). Once season starts and hunters shoot into them, the flock scatters, become more wary, and the hunters are less likely to put out more corn, at least I would think that be the case. I am sure there are some who never look back and keep pouring it to them. Overall, I would attribute the feeding up to 10 days before season to be a much bigger factor in the inflated opening weekend kill numbers when compared to fanning, decoys, etc.

ANDY, you are spot on...Turkeys are creatures of habit and very patternable. The only thing that will take the hens away from the feed is the search for the nest. As we know the gobblers follow the hens. I had a situation last year the neighbor didn't like the fact I was hunting so he started feeding the birds on his place. It totally ruined my hunting spot until the hens started to nest about the 3 weeks into season. The gobs I ended up killing on my place were following the hens to nesting area but they had crops full of cracked corn. Luckily for me the neighbor didn't hunt or he would of wiped these birds out the first weekend.
 
Here again, I'm not a fan of feeding and I've probably had my best luck after the second weekend of opener.

Andy... I love it/hate it when a bird is just over the lip of a ridge some 30 yards away. You can hear the drumming and catch glimpses of his fan as he struts back and forth but just won't commit to stepping over the top. Had it happen several times and more often than not they've finally just walked away without giving me a shot. Game on!
 
Setterman":1cxarseu said:
For that data to be usable and relevant you'd need to know how many hunters and how many hours were spent during each portion.

I agree... the data is just that... data.... It only states that half of the birds killed are in the first 7 days of a 44 day long season. My inferences are just that... inferences based on 28 years of extensively hunting only a small area of middle TN.

I've unfortunately only had one spring where I was able to take the entire month off and hunt 28 days in the 30 day month of April (almost all day, every day, except for a few days where I took a break midday to fish for stripers and smallmouth). And that was way back in 1997. We only had a 2 bird limit back then, and we had 10x the number of birds back then, so I just called in bird after bird after bird scouting until I found the biggest bird on the farms on about the 6th day of the season. He is still the biggest bird I've personally ever killed (26lbs, 1.5" spurs, 11" beard- although others have killed others bigger on my farms), and IIRC he was the 12th or 13th gobbler I called into gun range that season. It took me most of the rest of the season to kill #2, as I had already called him in twice before without killing him (he was 25lbs, 1.3" spurs, 10.5" beard). The last week of April I took 4 or 5 others to get them birds. Point being is that my experience is just anectodal and very limited to that one season where I was able to hunt the entire season. Years before that, I was able to only hunt weekends and just a few occasional weekdays. But I learned a LOT during that season.... back then there weren't many turkey hunters... in fact, there were a couple of gobblers I called in 4 or 5 times during the season, and they were never killed due to lack of pressure on surrounding properties.

I learned that the the only way to kill a 4 or 5 year old gobbler in the first week of the season was to get in CLOSE to his hens, act like one of them, then MAYBE he'll come into range checking to see if you are the first hen in his harem to allow him to breed. The 2y/o's that didn't have hens were just plain stupid. They fell over themselves coming to a call.

The second week of the season the very first hens started ovulating and allowing the dominant gobblers to breed them. Dominant birds were still unkillable unless you were willing to sneak in on them or get within 75 yards of his hens. The 2 y/o's were still suicidal, though, and provided a LOT of fun.

By the third week of the season, my pressure on the birds was starting to become evident. A few birds that I had called in close in days prior then passed up had become spooky, and only a handful would come within gun range. A few would even go from full strut and all alone in fields, to deflating and running the opposite direction at the first note of a 3-note yelp. But the big birds were starting to lose their hens during the middle of the day, and they started to run to a call if you were in their home range and they had finished breeding each of their receptive hens that day.

The fourth week of the season was starting to get tough. Even though I had 20-25 gobblers left on the farms at this time, most had been called in and passed on several times already and had become woods-wise. I learned that birds had individual personalities, and those personalities changed throughout the day. Some birds that would run away from a call in the morning would run straight to a call later in the day. A few older gobblers started to bunch back up into bachelor groups, as most hens had started setting. 'home range' territories of the older birds started to expand, and some birds that I had worked earlier in the season started shifting to other parts of the farm (the young gobblers were always shifting... desperately searching for their own harem).

5th and 6th weeks I have no experience hunting... only cutting hay... from observational experience only, gobblers seem to have grouped back up into bachelor groups, and they have started to wander... sometimes 2-4 miles away from where they were during April.

As I've said before, that season taught me a LOT... I learned the best balance between number of birds that were educated to calling and finding fully mature trophy birds that were huntable (without sneaking) was the 2nd week of the season. I took that week off to hunt for the next 15 years. But when the population began to decline in 2005 or so, I started to realize that there were so many fewer birds available to call in that the hunting experience itself began to decline. I shifted my time off to hunt the opener in 2009, and just accepted the fact that I was trading off most chances at trophy birds for the hunting experience itself of calling in more birds that were available. There just weren't enough birds making it to the 2nd week of the season to provide the experience I was used to.
 
Roost 1":1yjhnbdt said:
Eliminate the ridiculous feeding until 10 days before you hunt rule and you might see those front end numbers go down some......

Honestly, I don't think this makes a bit of difference...

I actually tried this on one of my farms about 10 years ago. On that particular farm, birds spend from June till February on that farm... but come nesting time, the hens shift off and pull all the gobblers with them. During the season, there were tons of jakes pushed onto that farm (I called in 35 in one group once back in the day :) ), but all the longbeards were gone with the hens. I ran a spin feeder up until mid March.... and the hens and gobblers stayed (around 50 hens and 12 longbeards, IIRC). I pulled the feeder and removed all the corn 12 or 13 days prior to the season to be completely legal and expected it to be a slam dunk for me and my guests come opener...

Opening day, no birds except jakes... all the hens had shifted off. None showed up the rest of the week as well. Luckily my other farms with better nesting habitat provided an excellent experience. But I learned something valuable... no point in even trying to keep the birds on your property with bait if you don't have the nesting habitat. (It MAY be different if one were willing to bait illegally during the actual season).
 
Roost 1":33lzozpl said:
ANDY, you are spot on...Turkeys are creatures of habit and very patternable. The only thing that will take the hens away from the feed is the search for the nest. As we know the gobblers follow the hens. I had a situation last year the neighbor didn't like the fact I was hunting so he started feeding the birds on his place. It totally ruined my hunting spot until the hens started to nest about the 3 weeks into season. The gobs I ended up killing on my place were following the hens to nesting area but they had crops full of cracked corn. Luckily for me the neighbor didn't hunt or he would of wiped these birds out the first weekend.

Spot on... those with less experience would do well to learn the point of this post... It's the hens that dictate where the gobblers will be come April.
 
Man yawl talk about patternable birds. I don't have any of those where I hunt. Lol. I can't tell u how many times I have watched birds fly down out of a certain tree. Go to that area the next day and not a turkey on that part of the lease.
 
muddyboots":3bp71ggp said:
Man yawl talk about patternable birds. I don't have any of those where I hunt. Lol. I can't tell u how many times I have watched birds fly down out of a certain tree. Go to that area the next day and not a turkey on that part of the lease.

He was there, just didn't gobble. Not necessarily the same tree, but I bet he was in a tree within 1/2 mile. Gobblers with hens don't wander far during early April. 2 y/o's will wander a bit, but I suspect most turkeys won't travel more than a mile in the spring if the habitat provides all they need to survive. Now fall is different... it's nothing for birds to wander 5 or 6 miles roaming for food in big flocks.

There's a reason turkeys required trapping and relocating to restock them... If you relied on natural migration of birds, 3/4 of the state still wouldn't have any.
 

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