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Breeding question

JCDEERMAN":2s4d8mmm said:
To me, the thought of outlawing decoys seems "extreme"
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It is, and it will never happen. Too much $ involved on many levels.

That is why Alabama finally caved and started allowing their use.
 
For as long as remembered, if I called in a pack of birds with multiple toms I've always fallen back to the guidance, "Shoot the strutter." And for no other reason than this is the direction provided by my mentor years ago. I've actually passed on pulling the trigger at all if I couldn't kill the main big time head honcho strutter. I'd just work that much harder to get him kilt the next morning. I've got to wondering if it don't just make sense to shoot subdominant birds early in the season just to allow more breeding to take place as it don't upset the pecking order?

I'm dead serious. If it means more turkeys running around going forward I'd do it in a heartbeat. That being said I ain't advocating TQM or nothing...just spit n whittle banter while passing the time till next Saturday when the sun is about to peek over the horizon.

Something to think about if you ain't got many birds. Save your prime time breeders...even if only for a couple of weeks.
 
Boll Weevil":3upnzjc2 said:
For as long as remembered, if I called in a pack of birds with multiple toms I've always fallen back to the guidance, "Shoot the strutter." And for no other reason than this is the direction provided by my mentor years ago. I've actually passed on pulling the trigger at all if I couldn't kill the main big time head honcho strutter. I'd just work that much harder to get him kilt the next morning. I've got to wondering if it don't just make sense to shoot subdominant birds early in the season just to allow more breeding to take place as it don't upset the pecking order?

I'm dead serious. If it means more turkeys running around going forward I'd do it in a heartbeat. That being said I ain't advocating TQM or nothing...just spit n whittle banter while passing the time till next Saturday when the sun is about to peek over the horizon.

Something to think about if you ain't got many birds. Save your prime time breeders...even if only for a couple of weeks.
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I have no clue about that. I shoot the first one that gets clear. But that's not a scenario that happens here where I hunt.
 
Some of you all are to much :lol: all Tom's will breed hens when given the opportunity whether the "boss" bird is ten yards away or dead. You can kill the " boss" and in ten minutes there is another "subdominant" gobbler walking a hens back 100 yards away from your dead bird. It does not take days or weeks they are right back at it in minutes, see it to many times every year.
 
^^^ I want to hunt in your county. There are a lot of areas that do not have subordinate gobblers to even consider breeding the hens. Unless one hunts these barren areas, they cannot relate. Sounds like your area is rocking along like some of the areas I hunted in early 2000s. Back then, the limit could have been 5 and I would not have blinked an eye, yet today, some of those same areas are void of turkeys, both hens and gobblers. It will change your perspective if you ever experience it. Enjoy the ride while you can.
 
knightrider":15esfu0m said:
Some of you all are to much :lol: all Tom's will breed hens when given the opportunity whether the "boss" bird is ten yards away or dead. You can kill the " boss" and in ten minutes there is another "subdominant" gobbler walking a hens back 100 yards away from your dead bird. It does not take days or weeks they are right back at it in minutes, see it to many times every year.
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I've always said this and think you are pretty much spot on. I can not see such a vigorous survivor of an animal being too choosy to who they breed with. If other gobblers are available, they will breed the hens.

That being said, if the turkey density is very low there may not be another gobbler available.

I too would love to see what kind of slots you have to hunt if it's that good.

In the good days, if I shot a gobbler it wouldn't take more than a week for another one to be there. On my best of seasons I have never seen it happen because simply because there ain't enough to do so.

Some folks are missing the point to which we should delay season to let gobblers breed. People don't own and operate huge expanses of land any more. Everybody and his brother turkey hunts now, and every one hunts on their own 40-100 acre pieces or leases or so forth, and every kills one on opening weekend, and so on and so on.

Folks on public land keep at it because well, if they don't, someone else will, and the cycle just keeps cycling.

Drop the limit to three or two birds but season opener remains the same we will see 0 difference because such a huge majority are killed the first weekend followed by the second weekend.

Delaying season is only real option, but that will not happen. The only thing politically correct to not hurt everyone's feelings and to make it look better they will just lower bag limits.


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I looked at the twra hunters tool box. Around 38% of the harvest was killed from youth day of last year through the second Sunday of the season, April 8. That's about 11 days of hunting. So out of a 45-46 day season 38% of gobblers were killed before one fourth mark of our season. I understand this is how it's supposed to be. I just don't see the big issue with putting it back just one week to allow 7 more days of breeding. That could literally be the difference.

Side note- I'm a firm believer that increasing length of day has 95 percent to do with turkey breeding. It's been absolutely beautiful in my area the last 10 days with spring weather and high pressure day after high pressure day. Maybe they have bred even more this week than they ever have which will be good.

***Another side note-in the hunters took box it said like 26,000 gobblers were killed with an average spur length of 1.72". What the heck have been missing this entire time hahaha.


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knightrider":802cad8g said:
Some of you all are to much [emoji38] all Tom's will breed hens when given the opportunity whether the "boss" bird is ten yards away or dead. You can kill the " boss" and in ten minutes there is another "subdominant" gobbler walking a hens back 100 yards away from your dead bird. It does not take days or weeks they are right back at it in minutes, see it to many times every year.
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All gobblers would love the opportunity to breed, you are correct. You are wrong in assuming the hens will immediately allow the subordinate gobblers to breed them right after the boss was removed. Sure, the subordinate Tom's head off with the hens and follow them like a lost puppy dog when the boss is removed. Following behind like a lost dog does not produce fertile eggs hiwever.

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Boll Weevil":1763ysb6 said:
For as long as remembered, if I called in a pack of birds with multiple toms I've always fallen back to the guidance, "Shoot the strutter." And for no other reason than this is the direction provided by my mentor years ago. I've actually passed on pulling the trigger at all if I couldn't kill the main big time head honcho strutter. I'd just work that much harder to get him kilt the next morning. I've got to wondering if it don't just make sense to shoot subdominant birds early in the season just to allow more breeding to take place as it don't upset the pecking order?

I'm dead serious. If it means more turkeys running around going forward I'd do it in a heartbeat. That being said I ain't advocating TQM or nothing...just spit n whittle banter while passing the time till next Saturday when the sun is about to peek over the horizon.

Something to think about if you ain't got many birds. Save your prime time breeders...even if only for a couple of weeks.
Click to expand...


The "shoot the strutter" mentality is deeply engrained. Three years ago I was hunting with a generous buddy. Two birds were working in. He told me to stay on the strutter even after they switched sides. I did and we doubled. The strutter was a fat 2 year old. My buddies bird which never once raised his fan was 17 lbs but had near 1 1/4" spurs that were needle sharp. Two years ago I got in front of a flock with two gobblers. The strutter was giving it all he had at 60 yards. The "subordinate" bird never strutted and hardly gobbled. He just stood upright 40 yards away surveying everything. I held out for the strutter as long as I could but finally broke nervous and shot the looker. Small body. Best spurs I have.

In part to be contrarian and in part because I now believe (based on two antidotal examples) that the "subordinate" bird is often an older, possibly smaller bodied turkey who doesn't have the temperment to square off with a heavier, more energetic turkey, I now target the "looker" over the strutter.
 
Now that is interesting SS. Perhaps somewhat like the dominant buck may not always have the biggest rack or body...he's just the meanest and most aggressive.

If given a choice I have always tried to kill the strutter...tough tough habit to break (not that I've tried too awful hard to break it though). ;)
 
megalomaniac":1wobek4d said:
knightrider":1wobek4d said:
Some of you all are to much [emoji38] all Tom's will breed hens when given the opportunity whether the "boss" bird is ten yards away or dead. You can kill the " boss" and in ten minutes there is another "subdominant" gobbler walking a hens back 100 yards away from your dead bird. It does not take days or weeks they are right back at it in minutes, see it to many times every year.
Click to expand...
All gobblers would love the opportunity to breed, you are correct. You are wrong in assuming the hens will immediately allow the subordinate gobblers to breed them right after the boss was removed. Sure, the subordinate Tom's head off with the hens and follow them like a lost puppy dog when the boss is removed. Following behind like a lost dog does not produce fertile eggs hiwever.

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Wrong, hens are just like doe deer. They breed with what climbs on them. By your theory Jake's don't breed hens, two year olds don't breed hens. Hens breed with male turkeys just like doe deer breed with spikes.
 
Andy S.":2piw2bj9 said:
. . . . . in early 2000s. Back then, the limit could have been 5 and I would not have blinked an eye, yet today, some of those same areas are void of turkeys, both hens and gobblers. It will change your perspective if you ever experience it. Enjoy the ride while you can.
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Was more like the 90's for me.
Those who think similar isn't going to happen to them can only appreciate what many have experienced after it happens to them personally.

The bean counters in Nashville may have been placing too much emphasis on statewide harvest rather than more localized areas that HAD previously had robust turkey populations.

scn":2piw2bj9 said:
Some of the research going on is showing that there is a fairly involved social hierarchy with turkeys and they don't act like deer in their breeding.
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Exactly.
But some don't seem to want to hear it, as it might upset their applecart,
or it might show there's more to turkey management than an emphasis on statewide harvest data.

More and more, I'm looking at turkeys as a bigger version of bobwhite quail,
and the statewide decline in quail leaves the experts (and the hunters) with more questions than answers.

What happened to the quail?
What is happening to the turkeys?
 
If killing the dominant bird for the day, and I mean for the day. Because they change daily sometimes multiple times a day. For turkeys one day they are dominant and a roving band of Jake's kicks his butt and runs him off then another gobbler takes his place, it happens.
However if y'all really think killing the dominant bird at all or early in April is going to have a negative impact on turkey populations then shoot jakes or don't kill a longbeard until late April. I personally don't buy it.
 

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