Can You Have Too Much Land To Hunt?

[Cazador]

How many hunters and how many doe are required by each hunter? Are you allowed to hunt the entire property or just an area? Are the other hunters hunting the middle of the property? If the deer/bucks are living on the outskirts of the property. They may be moving onto adjoining property to look for doe.
I hunt a property that is basically shaped like a dumbell. Large wooded areas on both ends and a 100 yard wide strip connecting them. Ag fields all around. Small divider strips of trees radiate out. They divide the ag fields. The best area is this 100 yard wide strip that is a couple hundred yards long. The prime places are where the divider trees meet the strip.
All that to say. It maybe the way the property is structured. I don't have any idea of the lay of the land there. But it is interesting. I am wondering if some clear cutting or thinning may help. Something that will "make" the deer use travel corridors. Where they may have free roam in cover now. It would reduce that.

 

[MXB 400]

IMO big woods means the deer have a lot of places to hide. I'm on 3 leases totaling 11000 acres and have more luck on my smaller private tracts than I have on all 3 leases. For me the deer on my small private tracts are easier to pattern as they have only so many places to go. IMO with the right food management( corn / other and minerals) after season is over and enough soft mast and acorns when season begins than the deer will hold in a small area better than a bigger area. As stated this is just my opinion but for me the proof was in the pudding as my friends and I have had great success this season on our smaller tracts :super: arty:

 

[poorhunter]

I'm not an expert, but I think it's obvious that Ames is poorly managing the deer herd for big bucks. I don't know enough of their particular management plan, but sometimes proof is in the pudding. 16000 acres is lots of land. There's (probably, tell me if I'm wrong) enough pressure on Ames to keep deer moving. What's the hunter per acre ratio? I'm guessing that it's not a nutrition issue or genetics issue if the deer around Ames are getting bigger racks.

As bucks get older, their racks get bigger. That IMO could be the problem, and it may be caused by different things, high grading being one.

Not always true.the racks get bigger if the deer is eating.if the deer are stressed they will stay hid when they should be eating which in return grows smaller racks

I seriously doubt that a deer will hide instead of eat no matter how stressed they are. I could certainly be wrong. Nutrition is absolutely a key factor! I somehow didn't submit my first post on this thread where I spoke about nutrition, but one of the things I said was that soils are not a magic bullet like some people think. Good soils produce more forage, which therefore produce healthier deer. Deer grow bigger antlers where soils are better because they can more easily access quality food. If they don't have to work very hard for food then that nutrition goes to making the entire animal healthier including antlers and not to basic bodily functions.

 

[chebuck]

I believe you are seeing over management. Ames has everything a deer needs to just hang tight till dark or hide out in a sanctuary. On a smaller tract you can effectively pull deer from thousands of acres to your area if you can pinpoint the limiting factor. Wether it is cover or food sources. I hunt in Montgomery and Robertson co. And cover is king for big deer here. Then I'll travel to humphries or Williamson co. And if you have the only food for miles your going to be on deer.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Relative to ground I hunted as a kid and young adult, I currently hunt a much larger tract. On the smaller tracts we had limited places to sit and when combined with wind direction, even fewer options. We hunted certain spots because that's all we had so in that regard it was far easier. In every instance dad, brother, uncle, cousin, or I killed a genuine bruiser on one of these small properties it was a almost certainly a non-resident just passing through pushed by the urge to procreate or pressure on an adjoining property.

I currently have many more stand options based on food, travel, cover, the rut, late season, pressure...you name it. We have far more resident, known, mature bucks that we hunt exclusively; nearly every 4.5+ we kill we know. But as many more options as I have, the deer do too...at any given time I can only cover so much ground. On a small piece I had fewer options but the deer did too; I could cover a much higher percentage of my huntable ground.

The confidence that there's a shooter SOMEWHERE on my side of the fence every time I step off the porch is fantastic. The probability I'm gonna be where he is at the same time...maybe not quite as optimistic. I think it's a trade off.

 

[megalomaniac]

you can NEVER have too much land to hunt!

1 person per 1000 acres is much better than 1 person per 100 acres. The less hunting pressure, the easier the big bucks are to kill. More land gives you more stands to hunt without having to rehunt the same location over and over and over.

That being said, it is possible to run into overpopulation problems if there aren't enough guns on the property or surrounding properties, but that is pretty rare nowadays.

 

[Crosshairy]

I hunted Ames the last 2 years, but left this year (perhaps just temporarily) to get some more flexibility with spending time afield with my son and expand my horizons past just deer hunting.

Ames has phenomenal deer habitat, and lots of it. There are enough restrictions around access to certain areas, that I do sincerely believe that sightings begin to fall off after muzzleloader starts and human intrusion picks way up. Some areas are a serious hike in to access, and don't have reasonable ways of getting a deer out. As a result, they don't get hunted much at all, but may be covered up with deer once gun season starts rolling.

So I guess my answer to Mike's posed question is...I don't think the issue is that the property is too huge, but just that access to certain areas is too limited. If they could slowly expand a few key logging roads into the interior and put gravel down to improve access, I think it would change the hunting dynamics in terms of sightings. Mainly...it would spread the hunters out more so that the "push" isn't all from a very few access points, and MIGHT even allow them to increase membership limits a little bit with the access to wider expanses of the property.

 

[smalljawbasser]

It's way easier to manage deer than it is to manage hunters. If they're not tromping around when and where they shouldn't, they're hunting the same old stands over and over.

Are mature bucks showing up on camera in summer?

 

[fairchaser]

More land is always better period. I mean come on, I've hunted small properties for years before hunting Ames and small properties have so many restrictions and limitations to implement any kind of effective management program. You can choose to hunt small or large even on a large property like Ames. Some hunters will focus their efforts on one 100 acre spot learning every tree and others like me hunt the entire plantation.

To clarify a few things about Ames, there is no place so remote or difficult to access that a hunter will not go. We have guys who get there two hours before daylight, don chest waders and walk and hour into a swamp and stay all day. Ames has dedicated hunters who put a lot of pressure on the deer herd. This pushes some of the deer off Ames. We also have hunters who can score deer on the hoof very well and getting better each season. I think our 5 inch cushion over the minimum is now down to 2 inches. A number of bucks between 125 and 130 have come in so far. Also we are getting better at aging deer and hunters are killing 4.5 year olds with regularity now. With 100 hunters, not many legal bucks are gonna get a free pass. This fact is gonna keep average scores around 130. Occasionally, some bigger ones slip through the tightly woven Ames net. Not many, but enough to keep your adrenaline pumping when you see antlers sneaking through the cover. These older bucks know the game well and won the chess match many times. It takes the peak of the rut to get their guards down just enough to get them moving a little in daylight. Now is that time. The hot and dry weather has delayed the rut at least during daylight. This weekend should be the best so far to get one. If hunters haven't used all their vacation time, we should get caught up on our buck kills. The big and old ones have yet to come in but they are definitely there to be had. Somewhere hiding in that amazing 25 square miles of pristine whitetail heaven is the buck of our dreams. Every year I have a new favorite spot. The scouting never stops and if you want to be consistently successful it mustn't. On a small property, you can just go crawl up into your favorite spot for that wind and that time of year. But, with a working plantation likes Ames, it's continually changing and so must the successful hunter.

 

[psubuzz]

It's way easier to manage deer than it is to manage hunters. If they're not tromping around when and where they shouldn't, they're hunting the same old stands over and over.

Are mature bucks showing up on camera in summer?

Couldn't agree more. I'd take 50 acres to myself over 5000 that I had to share with 50 other guys that can't agree on a QDM plan.

 

[BULL MOOSE]

There may be 100 members at Ames, but the pictures tell a story of almost the same successful characters repeating each year with bucks. http://amesplantation.zenfolio.com/p42760054

 

[fairchaser]

There may be 100 members at Ames, but the pictures tell a story of almost the same successful characters repeating each year with bucks. http://amesplantation.zenfolio.com/p42760054

'Tis true Bullmoose. Some guys hunt harder and experience pays off as it should. Nevertheless, everyone has an equal chance for success and rookies kill good bucks too. That large a property is overwhelming for many and you can just go sit down almost anywhere and see deer but it takes a few seasons to learn your way around these older bucks. We do have attrition for various reasons as any club but some of the veterans are very good hunters and spend lots of hours on stand to get it done on a mature buck. As I stated earlier, good spots only help a little.

 

[ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]

I'm not an expert, but I think it's obvious that Ames is poorly managing the deer herd for big bucks. I don't know enough of their particular management plan, but sometimes proof is in the pudding. 16000 acres is lots of land. There's (probably, tell me if I'm wrong) enough pressure on Ames to keep deer moving. What's the hunter per acre ratio? I'm guessing that it's not a nutrition issue or genetics issue if the deer around Ames are getting bigger racks.

As bucks get older, their racks get bigger. That IMO could be the problem, and it may be caused by different things, high grading being one.

Not always true.the racks get bigger if the deer is eating.if the deer are stressed they will stay hid when they should be eating which in return grows smaller racks

I seriously doubt that a deer will hide instead of eat no matter how stressed they are. I could certainly be wrong. Nutrition is absolutely a key factor! I somehow didn't submit my first post on this thread where I spoke about nutrition, but one of the things I said was that soils are not a magic bullet like some people think. Good soils produce more forage, which therefore produce healthier deer. Deer grow bigger antlers where soils are better because they can more easily access quality food. If they don't have to work very hard for food then that nutrition goes to making the entire animal healthier including antlers and not to basic bodily functions.

I agree with you 100% on the soils

 

[Grnwing]

I believe you can have too much land to successfully hunt but overall having more land and more options is more of a limit to the hunter. I enjoy hunting large tracts of land because it allows you get more remote and disconnected from trucks and 4 wheelers and get more of a wilderness experience. I hunt a lot of different public land and find it very rewarding to pick apart different WMA's and figure out how the deer use them and try and put myself in a position to take a good buck. It takes a lot of discipline to be successful. I always joke about hunting memories and that the spot last year that had a big buck is only a good memory, not a reason to hunt a particular area. I notice most hunters will overlook large areas of land and only focus on primary features were access easiest. Hunting pressure also seems to dictate the quality of the hunt and I find archery only areas and hunts to be a lot more productive than muzzleloader/rifle hunts. I have never been a fan of big leases as those are the ones that are as dedicated and willing to commit time and resources on a very limited resource(mature buck). I believe some public lands have higher and better quality bucks than the majority of deer leases.
That being said, small tracks can be a lot easier to hunt because you have less decisions to make, which can make a hunt more enjoyable.

 

[7X57]

Hey guys. I'm new to the forum as a member, but have been reading on here for several years. Lots of good posts and good people on here. I actually prefer to hunt smaller parcels myself given they have the cover or isolated food source a deer seeks. Going from hunting on large tracts/hunting clubs to hunting small private parcels was a game changer for me. I've taken much better deer since leaving the large tracts/large clubs behind. The heavy influx of scouting pressure right before season always caused the bucks to vanish. I'm sure they can't differentiate scouting pressure from hunting pressure. Also, multiple small tracts owned by different land owners tend to have more diverse terrain and this usually means more defined funnels/transition areas. I punched my first buck tag this year on a 17 acre tract. He scored 123 3/8 as an 8 point. Good luck to everyone this weekend! It's gonna be cold!

 

[bowhunt25]

I can't provide a better answer than all the comments associated, however I do NOT think you can have too much land to hunt, which is what the original question was. Deer follow historical hot food spots or known food quarries and better habitat as the season progresses....Deer are herd animals no different than goats or other foraging animals...They simply go where the food takes them....
I believe in Mikes case, Ames has run the program down by taking too many does and not truly following what QDM is:
* Herd Monitoring.............Ames does a census (observation form) done by hunters. garbage in, garbage out.....Duplicate info (Hunter A see's 3 does 1 buck. Hunter B in same area sees same deer....Hence double count.....
* Herd Management...Shoot does.....shoot does.....shoot does.....Only to satisfy crop damage (Ames theory from farmers) Taking does should be for herd management, not to have an OUT to tell the Trustees.
* Food Plots...........There are no food plots...Which neighboring properties do have. Go back to 1st paragraph, deer go to the food source.
* Habitat Improvement.....Cut all trees down.......This area, that area, oaks, pines and more and more, not for habitat improvement but for $$$....
Look at QDM and their definition of 5 main reasons of deer population decline:
1. Hemorrhagic Disease....Very small percent at Ames
2. Sever Winter Weather........No Effect
3. Intentional Herd Reduction........Shoot does or we will shoot them in the summer...Either way they will be taken
4. Falling Fawn Recruitment......See above, less does less fawns.. Habitat loss.....less food during winter months
5. Habitat Loss.......less food, less browse, lose bucks to better areas(next door)
Just an opinion.....

 

[Poleaxe]

You CAN'T ever have to much land to hunt IMO. It's all about pressure I think. They get smarter and adapt every deer you jump or smells you. They move to places where you least expect and are undisturbed. I try and never hunt any of my properties more than 2-3 times in a row. Some tracks being 900 and some 100 by myself. Over pressure will quickly send your deer off the property or only visible in low light. Your bucks are there Mike, but their ways of travel has changed. Think about it, how many members want to go waste a hunt in a briar thicket they can only see 40yrds? I once lost track of a buck and found him skirting along the hill of newly built highway where I least expected.

 

[BULL MOOSE]

There are a lot of cameras out. Are the bucks on camera?
Do members get together and share pics of deer?

If I had access to a small property bordering Ames, I would likely make sure that I had a good food source knowing that Ames farmers cut it all.

Also, how many farms around Ames do summer shoots. I met a guy that works for a farm around Middleton area and the stories are shocking. Evidently, they gut shoot the deer so they will run out of the field to die vs. die in the crop field.

 

[dirtturner]

Not possible to have too much. It may take you several years to figure things out as far as the deer go and how to hunt the good spots. Deer around here usually are in about a 3 day cycle. so hunt in a spot several days then go to another one. Use a lot of cameras and find the best spots. In the rut you will see bucks that have never been on camera or seen on that property before so it almost becomes potluck. You just need to figure out a system that works for you with your time and other factors.

 

[Winchester]

Deer dont know where property lines are and dont travel any different regardless of who owns the land. If your getting overwhelmed with the large tract simply pick a small area of it and hunt it exclusively for a while. Ive found that no matter how large an area I have to hunt, learning the right sections of it intimately are where its at!