Couple turkey gun questions.

[catman529]

so again why take a shot at 60yds?

Because somewhere along the way people decided it isn't impressive to be an ethical hunter and see how close you can get them. It's impressive to see if you can kill them farther and farther away. If you feed some to the coyotes along the way, who cares? I'm so appreciative of OG's rule about 40 yards. It definitely keeps the "tommy toppers" quiet. Deer hunters are even worse. They would rather brag about a 400 yard shot than a 40. Isn't the idea to solve the puzzle, get in close, figure out what makes him tick, use woodmanship, know the terrain, be stealthy?

and sometimes, you have been walking for miles, sneaking, calling, crossing creeks, crawling through privet thickets, trying to get close and seal the deal, and finally on your way out, you get a shot at 50 yards and he's not coming any closer than that. Do you say "oh well, that's not OG legal" or do you shoot what you spent a lot of time and energy to kill. For me of course I took the latter, this fall on a flock of longbeards. He didn't even get up to run, I just held the bead over the top of his head and he dropped. Will I try to do that again? no, but I will do it again if it comes down to it... as a last resort, I know my gun can do it

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . sometimes, you have been walking for miles, sneaking, calling, crossing creeks, crawling through privet thickets, trying to get close and seal the deal . . . .

Which is why it's called going "hunting", not going "shooting".

 

[catman529]

. . . . sometimes, you have been walking for miles, sneaking, calling, crossing creeks, crawling through privet thickets, trying to get close and seal the deal . . . .

Which is why it's called going "hunting", not going "shooting".

but 50 yards is not going to keep the hunt from turning into a kill...

 

[TheRealSpurhunter]

so again why take a shot at 60yds?

Because somewhere along the way people decided it isn't impressive to be an ethical hunter and see how close you can get them. It's impressive to see if you can kill them farther and farther away. If you feed some to the coyotes along the way, who cares? I'm so appreciative of OG's rule about 40 yards. It definitely keeps the "tommy toppers" quiet. Deer hunters are even worse. They would rather brag about a 400 yard shot than a 40. Isn't the idea to solve the puzzle, get in close, figure out what makes him tick, use woodmanship, know the terrain, be stealthy?

and sometimes, you have been walking for miles, sneaking, calling, crossing creeks, crawling through privet thickets, trying to get close and seal the deal, and finally on your way out, you get a shot at 50 yards and he's not coming any closer than that. Do you say "oh well, that's not OG legal" or do you shoot what you spent a lot of time and energy to kill. For me of course I took the latter, this fall on a flock of longbeards. He didn't even get up to run, I just held the bead over the top of his head and he dropped. Will I try to do that again? no, but I will do it again if it comes down to it... as a last resort, I know my gun can do it

Winner, winner, chicken (turkey) dinner!

 

[TheLBLman]

Just depends on exactly what you personally want from you hunting experience. I've passed up many longbeards at close range simply because I couldn't get a good head shot. Part of what matters to me is being able to eat what I kill, and I don't like shot up meat, nor do I want to take much chance at having a bird shot at, beyond the range of near certainty, die from a single pellet in his intestine, days later, only benefiting the coyotes.

I few years ago I worked an old longbeard one morning for several hours. May never have had one gobble as much as this one, and it was one of the most exciting hunts I've ever had. He had me pinned down in a makeshift ground blind, where I couldn't go any closer, and he didn't seem to ever be willing to come any closer. Never mind he was less than 40 yards away part of the time, but there was just enough between us that I could never see him without standing up, at which point he would see me first.

Late in the morning, and after over an hour of not hearing him, I decided it was about time for me to move on. My butt was numb, as I hadn't stood in hours. But before I stood, I peered around very carefully, just to make sure nothing had slipped in. When I turned to my right, my eyes met with one of the biggest gobblers I've ever seen --- he was all of about 6 feet from me.

I think it was more the eye contact than my turning my head, but at that split second, he took to flight, actually offering an easy shot on the fly. But not a head shot. I doubt that old Tom was ever among the subsequents, but have no regrets for not killing him with an easy body shot at 20 yards, as he rose and flew straight away. I enjoyed that hunt. Had venison for dinner.

 

[Grizzly Johnson]

This all boils down to noobie/rookie vs. experienced hunters with time/range tested weapons. Which btw Catman, is why OG uses the 40 yard "guideline"..... Someone may read a forum post and say "hey that looks like fun, I think I will try to get a turkey. They go to a store the night before to buy a setup and hunt the next morning while expecting to have the same results from their gun that a hunter who has taken the time to test load/chokes combos and "count holes in paper" before going out into the field.... KNOWING their limitations.

As stated before (beating a dead horse) it is personal prefernece and IF you have a weapon capable and I mean capable (proven with range time) that your patterns are capable at 60 yards of a clean kill.... then by all means go for it.... But if you are depending on a lucky few pellets, than maybe you need to rethink your limits.

I like having them in close for the rush it gives me being so personal with them.... but I don't get to hunt every day either, so I am going to maximize my chances of taking one home on each trip... And yes if I spend the time on working a bird, sneaking, crawling, sitting, and he only wants to come so far.... well I have to decide to take a shot or not. I don't carry a rangefinder for turkey hunting.... I tote enough stuff as is. If he is in my comfort zone, he is close enough and I will take the shot.

I have shot at and missed 2 turkey's in the years I have been hunting. Both were in my rookie days while using lead shot and getting overly excited and rushing the shot. Since then I have different setups depending on my hunting type (woods/fields) and also use HTL & TSS for a little extra yardage for "just in case"..... while field hunting.... otherwise I use lead when hunting a woods setup. I learned from my past mistakes and like to get them well within my comfort zone.... typically 40 yards is my personal cutoff... 45 yds with a fudge factor. You can't make him come in but if he wants to, by all means let him keep coming.... when it's time, take the shot. I have had severl encounters where some worked out with a bird down and some he lived to hunt him another day.

The two that just kinda stand out:

I along with another member on here worked a HUGE turkey (12"+ beard and big body) one morning only to watch him fly up into a tree 62 yards away to look for the hen he was hearing..... then he flew down and vanished....

Another time I was with a different member and we worked a bird for two hours watching him mingle with some hens about 100 yards away in a wheat field.... I decided to circle around and hopefully get ahead of where he wanted to go. I was slipping through shin deep swamp, then belly crawling through briars. I got about 12' from a fence with some grass growing along it.... I could see him plain as day on the other side but with the terrain slightly sloping away on his side of the fence, he looked farther away.... I tride to get closer and he eventually went to my left and into the thicket I had come into. After I got to the fence, I saw it was actually an illusion between the fence and background features.... he was plenty close for a shot.

Did I regret not shooting..... absolutely not on either one because I just wasn't 100% sure. Was I dissappointed they didn't take a truck ride home with me.... absolutely.... but it is hunting and the experiences you have during hunting that make the memories.



It's good to have a civil discussion and a great reading for new turkey hunters... I learned alot in my beginning days from just reading threads like this....

 

[REN]

so again why take a shot at 60yds?

Because somewhere along the way people decided it isn't impressive to be an ethical hunter and see how close you can get them. It's impressive to see if you can kill them farther and farther away. If you feed some to the coyotes along the way, who cares? I'm so appreciative of OG's rule about 40 yards. It definitely keeps the "tommy toppers" quiet. Deer hunters are even worse. They would rather brag about a 400 yard shot than a 40. Isn't the idea to solve the puzzle, get in close, figure out what makes him tick, use woodmanship, know the terrain, be stealthy?

and sometimes, you have been walking for miles, sneaking, calling, crossing creeks, crawling through privet thickets, trying to get close and seal the deal, and finally on your way out, you get a shot at 50 yards and he's not coming any closer than that. Do you say "oh well, that's not OG legal" or do you shoot what you spent a lot of time and energy to kill. For me of course I took the latter, this fall on a flock of longbeards. He didn't even get up to run, I just held the bead over the top of his head and he dropped. Will I try to do that again? no, but I will do it again if it comes down to it... as a last resort, I know my gun can do it

you know your gun will do it once or you have patterned the gun at 50yds in different conditions to know it will do it every time?

lets be honest here if you are shooting birds out so far you can't really even make out what your aiming at you are doing it to just flat out shoot at one or your just out to kill something. Thats fine if thats your reason i went through a killing phase with deer when I was younger nothing wrong with that if you are taking the meat home, but lets not really try and coat it with a long story of putting in so much work just to pass on a last chance. You were out to kill something and id even go a step further last year and say you were out to limit as fast as possible and that was an chance to do so. AGAIN nothing wrong with that but lets just call a spade a spade. walking miles and putting in all the work is part of hunting, just because you walk 10miles vs 1 mile shouldn't determain what type of shots you want to take.

patterning a gun is more then shooting it once or twice at a piece of paper 40yds away. Temps, wind, dirty barrels humidity etc can all play a role in what a gun can do. if you shooting it in hunting like conditions and making sure it is a clean kill even pattern then fantastic buy a bunch of that same ammo and go shoot some heads off.

I still ask again #1 why shoot at a bird that far away if you like to play the game other then just to say you did or kill something and #2 what are you actually aiming at if using a bead being that the bead will almost cover the entire bird at that distance?


****DISCLAIMER****

I am not questioning your ethics for hunting nor claiming your intents to be anything but legal nor am i suggesting the unspoken rules i live by in the turkey woods are the ones everyone else should go by.

 

[deerhunter10]

I couldn't pill the trigger he looked sooo far away. I stepped it off after the hunt at 52 yds. I did not regret letting him walk

52 yards is a long shot with a shotgun. I wonder how many of these 60-80 yard turkey kills actually are lazered.

not very many very few people take a range finder with them turkey hunting.

Rangefinder and binoculars are the 2 most important tolls I carry in the turkey woods.

x2 I never go without them especially binos. I want the turkeys within 30-40 yards now so a range finder is not a must for me any more but I try to carry both. especially binoculars.

 

[catman529]

Good grief it's easy to get really long lectures going when it comes to turkeys! Wes I agree I don't like body shots on birds, actually I hate them and I only ever shot a flying turkey once and that was because I had knocked it down and it got back up again, so I got a perfect neck shot when it tried to fly away.

Griz about the comfort zone, the 50 yd shot was instinctive and I was comfortable with it, actually it all happened really quick. If I was sitting down working a bird I would not shoot him at 50 yards, because I doubt my gun is very consistent at that range.

REN I have not patterned my gun at 50, I doubt it will shoot consistently at 50, and both of my far shots (45 and 50 yds) were on fall flocks after the birds started to scatter from the first shot. Sitting down and working a bird I would not shoot it that far. But both of my long shots were in wide open cut corn fields, and I really did not know how far they were until after I stepped it off (I don't carry a range finder and don't feel a need to).

And no I was not out to limit out as fast as possible. I had killed a few the previous week, and had 2 tags for the county left, and was out to only kill a fall longbeard (bucket list bird) and I did so at 50 yards not knowing it was that far until after I stepped it off. I'm not going to apologize for the shot and I'm not going to go and keep trying to kill them at 50, it just happened that way and I was comfortable with the shot.

 

[REN]

no need to apologize, I'm not saying anything you did was wrong or you should be ashamed of anything. Kill them however you want.

all I'm getting at is you said you know your gun will do it if you need to do it again, my point is if you have never patterned the gun at 50 how do you know what it will do next time? if not realizing how far 50yds is in an open field then work on that more, i too don't ever carry a rangefinder but you should be able to quicky identify questionable yardage with a shot gun....golf and archery taught me how to do it faster lol.

All I'm doing is asking questions based on responses. " Will I try to do that again? no, but I will do it again if it comes down to it... as a last resort, I know my gun can do it" I just do understand the statement is all.


again ***** DISCLAIMER ****

in no way am i chastising or saying folks don't know how to hunt correctly or trying to imply an elitist attitude, hunt them however you want and however it makes it enjoyable to you (legally) with a gun you are comfortable with and know its limitations.

 

[catman529]

I know my gun CAN do it because it has done it, but I don't know how consistently it will do it. I'm not a bad judge at yardage but in the heat of the moment I'm not going to be calculating just how far I think the bird is if it happens that fast. It's only happened in the fall after a first shot was fired and the birds moved around. Purely an instinctive shot and I felt comfortable with it.

Not the most wise shot, but what do you expect from a 3rd year turkey hunter with an itchy trigger finger?

 

[Spurhunter]

"I was comfortable with the shot"
"I haven't patterned my gun at 50 yards"

Contradictory statements in my opinion. How can you be comfortable with a shot you've never tried on paper. Ethically you can't. Just because a hunter is "comfortable" with a shot doesn't mean his equipment is capable of making the shot.

 

[catman529]

"I was comfortable with the shot"
"I haven't patterned my gun at 50 yards"

Contradictory statements in my opinion. How can you be comfortable with a shot you've never tried on paper. Ethically you can't. Just because a hunter is "comfortable" with a shot doesn't mean his equipment is capable of making the shot.

yeah because pellets shoot off into random directions once they pass the yardage at which you have shot a piece of paper. I had killed a bird at 45 and did not know the gobbler was 50 when I shot him but based on my previous kills I felt comfortable shooting him and he dropped in his tracks.

 

[REN]

I know my gun CAN do it because it has done it, but I don't know how consistently it will do it. I'm not a bad judge at yardage but in the heat of the moment I'm not going to be calculating just how far I think the bird is if it happens that fast. It's only happened in the fall after a first shot was fired and the birds moved around. Purely an instinctive shot and I felt comfortable with it.

Not the most wise shot, but what do you expect from a 3rd year turkey hunter with an itchy trigger finger?

Catman all I'm getting at is yes you know it CAN do it once but you are not sure it can do it again. If i shot a deer with my rifle at 5000yds and he dropped i could say yes my rifle can do it, being able to do it again is a totally different story and thats where the issue falls with some. You can't say you know it can do it AGAIN which is why folks pattern at all distances to know what it CAN do. If you took yours out on a 72 degree day and realized on paper it only has 40 or 50 pellets in a 10" and maybe 80 in a 20" then a 50yds shot is not a wise or very ethical decision to make as you are going for the golden pellet at that point.

Im not saying you are out to do it all the time or would ever do it again but everyone should know their limitations. If you gun can't do it with an acceptable pattern count and you want it to have the ability to do it then start testing other loads and chokes to see what you can get it to do....thats the fun to me.


im not getting onto you and i really hope you are not taking this the wrong way as I'm really not trying to be a D_ _ _. I think your a good kid that has come along way in a short amount of time and one of the few folks these days that uses every ounce of what he kills (myself included)

 

[catman529]

I think that's kind of a skewed comparison between a 5,000 yard rifle shot with 1 bullet and a 50 yard shotgun shot with several hundred pellets. 50 pellets in 10 inch circle sounds like plenty to kill a turkey to me... I have no idea how many pellets mine would shoot in 10" at 50 yd and I'm sure it's not a wise shot as I already said. And I also already said I wouldn't try that shot again if I had the time to stop and guess the yardage. I'm more of an instinctive hunter than a scientific one, I go by gut feeling and instinct rather than numbers and factors

Also I don't think you are being a D- head at all, just having a debate.

 

[TheRealSpurhunter]

Catman, I would say it would scare you how bad your pattern in at 50 or more yards, I urge you to put the shots to paper and see that.

Ren, you have mentioned several times about a "bead" covering an entire target at 50 yards.

First, a person shooting long distance at turkeys on a regular basis, should never, EVER be shooting a bead sight, or even iron sights. Scopes are a MUST for extreme turkey shooting.

Second, if you cant make out every detail of a long beard at 50 yards, I would ask you to get an eye exam.

 

[catman529]

Catman, I would say it would scare you how bad your pattern in at 50 or more yards, I urge you to put the shots to paper and see that.

Ren, you have mentioned several times about a "bead" covering an entire target at 50 yards.

First, a person shooting long distance at turkeys on a regular basis, should never, EVER be shooting a bead sight, or even iron sights. Scopes are a MUST for extreme turkey shooting.

Second, if you cant make out every detail of a long beard at 50 yards, I would ask you to get an eye exam.

when I buy the new Winchester double x loads, they are supposedly the same as the Supreme but I will be shooting them to e sure. I will have to shoot at 40 and 50 just to see.

 

[TheRealSpurhunter]

Catman your inbox is full

 

[REN]

see i don't see it as a very skewed comparison as you are still relying on A LOT of luck to go your way. 50pellets is not much at all and MOST people dealing with ballistics and physics go by the 100 count min. with only something like 50 there is a ton of air filling up the rest of the area to which a turkey can move around in. In addition the actual energy from a lead based load at 50yds is way down and really pushing its limit. The odds of a miss or injury with a poor pattern equal or could be even greater with those numbers which again brings in the ethics debate.

I understand you said you would not try it again if you had the time to stop and think but you also said you don't really stop and think (using instinct more) so the odds of it happening again are fairly high. Which that being the case just pattern your gun at more distances to see what it does and if its not up to an ethical (yet debatable) limit then try to do something to make it there.

as far as instinctive hunter id say ALL good turkey hunters are and thats what they rely on and thats what sets them apart from most. Having said that instincts come from learned traits and understanding all aspects of your surroundings and environment. You cannot ignore science or numbers, it should be a part of your mental decision making process for all types of hunting not limited to shooting turkeys. If you know you have limitations at yardage acquisition then that is something you should take time and focus on until it because natural instinct to judge it in a fast situation but don't use "instinct" or "gut feeling" as a crutch or excuse for lack of experience. Everyone makes mistakes, poor choices and wrong choices all the time in the woods. Everyone makes quick decisions that may or may not pay off, the key is to always learn from them wrong or right an get to a point were you don't have to think at all but it just happens natural.

the bottom line is we all LOVE LOVE to turkey hunt which is why you see some of the debates you do in the turkey forum (by far my fav forum) and we all owe it to the game we love to hunt to do everything we can to be sure we can harvest them as ethically as possible and ensure the population stays healthy and growing. Patterning your weapon is one of those things you just need to do if you have the ability to do so, as is knowing your target and knowing when to take a shot and pass on one till another day.

 

[REN]

Catman, I would say it would scare you how bad your pattern in at 50 or more yards, I urge you to put the shots to paper and see that.

Second, if you cant make out every detail of a long beard at 50 yards, I would ask you to get an eye exam.

oh i have and should be wearing glasses hahah. However in a wooded area in low light conditions it is more then difficult to make out every aspect of the bird especially when there are multiple ones there along with brush.

in the open field at 11am on a sunny day sure, should not be a issue at all.