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CWD a hoax?

fairchaser said:
If one deer per square mile per month is dying from CWD on a 25 square mile track, that's 300 deer per year. With an estimated herd size of 800-900 animals, losing 300 from one source is a big deal.
What other places are you talking about? Can you give me specifics so we can find out what the differences might be?
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Southern Wisconsin. Colorado. Wyoming. Western Nebraska. Any place that's ever had cwd?
 
fairchaser said:
Ames is at the virtual center of the outbreak. We've had for more than 5 years, probably 10 years, who knows exactly? It takes several years to start to drag on the herd however. One of our best years was 2016-2017, then it gradually declined. I don't know about other places that have had it for several years or decades. I can only speak to what I know. Maybe it reaches a point of no return or a tipping point when the herd takes a dive. All I can tell you is there is definitely a point of before and after. After, sucks. We've had harvests of 250-300 animals and the last two years it's been 85 and 80. Something is going on!
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If the herd has died off like that then what makes you continue to pay a high membership fee to hunt there?
 
Jcalder said:
I'm not disagreeing with you that you have a problem, but I don't agree with what the problem is. If cwd was solely the cause you'd see similar results in other places, which isn't the case.
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Do the other places have the deer density that Ames/Fayette/Hardemen have? The whole reason these counties went to unit L was because of density and overcrowding.
 
BigAl said:
Do the other places have the deer density that Ames/Fayette/Hardemen have? The whole reason these counties went to unit L was because of density and overcrowding.
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I would guess so looking at density charts. Even if they are slightly behind, those other herds should be extinct by now.
 
7mmWSM said:
If the herd has died off like that then what makes you continue to pay a high membership fee to hunt there?
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That's a great question! In spite of low sightings and fewer good buck opportunities, there's always a few good bucks to keep you motivated. That and it's part of me now. It's hard to say goodbye not just to the place but the people. Until something better comes along, that's where I'll be.
 
Jcalder said:
I would guess so looking at density charts. Even if they are slightly behind, those other herds should be extinct by now.
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I wouldn't jump to extremes. CWD won't cause extinction. Does can reproduce with CWD for a couple years at least depending on when they contract CWD. The herd can shrink to low levels but as there are fewer numbers, there are less chances to catch it and it doesn't spread as easily.
 
fairchaser said:
I wouldn't jump to extremes. CWD won't cause extinction. Does can reproduce with CWD for a couple years at least depending on when they contract CWD. The herd can shrink to low levels but as there are fewer numbers, there are less chances to catch it and it doesn't spread as easily.
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You guys make it sound like no one else has any deer, besides Ames lol. But I'm glad you acknowledge cwd won't kill off your herd like what's being claimed
 
fairchaser said:
That's a great question! In spite of low sightings and fewer good buck opportunities, there's always a few good bucks to keep you motivated. That and it's part of me now. It's hard to say goodbye not just to the place but the people. Until something better comes along, that's where I'll be.
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Totally understandable. Good bunch of guys there. That would probably be the hardest part to leave. And it's always a chance at a good deer still there.
 
fairchaser said:
Ames is at the virtual center of the outbreak. We've had for more than 5 years, probably 10 years, who knows exactly? It takes several years to start to drag on the herd however. One of our best years was 2016-2017, then it gradually declined. I don't know about other places that have had it for several years or decades. I can only speak to what I know. Maybe it reaches a point of no return or a tipping point when the herd takes a dive. All I can tell you is there is definitely a point of before and after. After, sucks. We've had harvests of 250-300 animals and the last two years it's been 85 and 80. Something is going on!
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I wonder... how much of the population decline was due to CWD and how much was due to the 'gloves off', kill everything management approach?

With CWD, animals are not going to live as long... which means annual mortality from the disease will approach 10 to 15% (I'm assuming 10 to 15% have had the disease 2 to 4 years and therefore die of it). If annual mortality from hunting increases due to regulation changes (ESPECIALLY IF AGE STRUCTURES OF KILLED DOES IS DECLINING), the population will decline and perhaps even collapse.

In herds with CWD, since it's impossible to eradicate CWD, it becomes even more imperative to selectively harvest only the oldest animals... allowing the younger (esp does) to reproduce.
 
megalomaniac said:
I wonder... how much of the population decline was due to CWD and how much was due to the 'gloves off', kill everything management approach?

With CWD, animals are not going to live as long... which means annual mortality from the disease will approach 10 to 15% (I'm assuming 10 to 15% have had the disease 2 to 4 years and therefore die of it). If annual mortality from hunting increases due to regulation changes (ESPECIALLY IF AGE STRUCTURES OF KILLED DOES IS DECLINING), the population will decline and perhaps even collapse.

In herds with CWD, since it's impossible to eradicate CWD, it becomes even more imperative to selectively harvest only the oldest animals... allowing the younger (esp does) to reproduce.
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Mega, I don't have the specific evidence but it's been my belief that killing over 250 does one season just before the CWD outbreak was discovered helped to hurt our deer herd for several years. Sometimes it's hard for management to change directions from killem, killem all mentality. I think it was a one, two punch that will impact us for years, especially now with CWD so prolific. I personally wish we could lay off does for a couple years and see if the herd can bounce back. It's easy to go back if you have too many does.
 
fairchaser said:
Mega, I don't have the specific evidence but it's been my belief that killing over 250 does one season just before the CWD outbreak was discovered helped to hurt our deer herd for several years. Sometimes it's hard for management to change directions from killem, killem all mentality. I think it was a one, two punch that will impact us for years, especially now with CWD so prolific. I personally wish we could lay off does for a couple years and see if the herd can bounce back. It's easy to go back if you have too many does.
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That makes sense... if you have 900 deer, and you kill 250 does in a season, population is going to crash when CWD is taking out another 90 to 100 before next hinting season .

Stop shooting any does except those with yellow faces and large briskets... then your population will rebound despite cwd
 
fairchaser said:
Mega, I don't have the specific evidence but it's been my belief that killing over 250 does one season just before the CWD outbreak was discovered helped to hurt our deer herd for several years. Sometimes it's hard for management to change directions from killem, killem all mentality. I think it was a one, two punch that will impact us for years, especially now with CWD so prolific. I personally wish we could lay off does for a couple years and see if the herd can bounce back. It's easy to go back if you have too many does.
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On our lease/area, we weren't really hammering the does like Ames. I think we saw the population declining even before TWRA put up the red flag. But everyone is worring about TWRAs "kill em all" attitude. We're not really trying to, but with sightings down so much, it would be hard to do, unless you just shot every deer you saw.
 
BigAl said:
On our lease/area, we weren't really hammering the does like Ames. I think we saw the population declining even before TWRA put up the red flag. But everyone is worring about TWRAs "kill em all" attitude. We're not really trying to, but with sightings down so much, it would be hard to do, unless you just shot every deer you saw.
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We've got a couple meat hunters who shoot everything but add to that the earn a buck program where you must kill a doe first and you get too many deer killed. Maybe next season, they let us lay off the does some.
 
fairchaser said:
We've got a couple meat hunters who shoot everything but add to that the earn a buck program where you must kill a doe first and you get too many deer killed. Maybe next season, they let us lay off the does some.
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We probably killed 5 or 6 does this year. I think it was less the year before.
 
BigAl said:
We probably killed 5 or 6 does this year. I think it was less the year before.
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I killed one buck. I didn't even kill my doe and paid the fine instead. We had one hunter and his daughter kill 15 deer between the two of them. They are really good hunters. I couldn't have even killed that many if I wanted to but of course I don't. The club killed 80 deer, 5 less than the previous year. I don't understand how some hunters here say they have the same deer as before and see no difference from CWD. I guess it really depends on location.
 
fairchaser said:
I killed one buck. I didn't even kill my doe and paid the fine instead. We had one hunter and his daughter kill 15 deer between the two of them. They are really good hunters. I couldn't have even killed that many if I wanted to but of course I don't. The club killed 80 deer, 5 less than the previous year. I don't understand how some hunters here say they have the same deer as before and see no difference from CWD. I guess it really depends on location
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Even where I live I have seen drastic decrease in sightings. While some of it can be attributed to other factors, the number of deer in this area has been reduced significantly.
 

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