Deer population & hunter success in decline?

[TX300mag]

It's sad, but I've seen people in Texas ostracized, made fun of, and looked down on for their FIRST deer being a 2.5 and even 3.5 year old buck.

I remember one instance in particular where a young hunter (13-14 years old) walked away during the early season and never came back. He watched his father being ridiculed and chastised for killing his first deer, which was an 8 point buck that didn't meet other hunters standard (no rule violated). Way to introduce two new hunters to the sport.

 

[stik]

It's sad, but I've seen people in Texas ostracized, made fun of, and looked down on for their FIRST deer being a 2.5 and even 3.5 year old buck.

I remember one instance in particular where a young hunter (13-14 years old) walked away during the early season and never came back. He watched his father being ridiculed and chastised for killing his first deer, which was an 8 point buck that didn't meet other hunters standard (no rule violated). Way to introduce two new hunters to the sport.

that happens here(tndeer) too. there are those amongst us who belittle others' deer if they don't meet their standards.

 

[woodsman87]

TV hunting has just about ruined it. Now if you don't kill a 150"er behind your house with a brand new Mathews you aren't cool enough to hunt.

Instead of TV hunters trying to teach people new to the sport how to hunt, they have just gone to making money and trying to sell their crap.

So many new hunters buy the deer calls, doe pee, and attractants, (like acorn rage and trophy rock) and expect instant success. When they hunt opening weekend and see nothing, or kill a yearling buck, they are ridiculed and discouraged and therefore quit.

In order to be like the TV people, you have to be lucky in the fact that you know some people with access to these great lands, or you have to be rich without a family in order to find a lease that has big bucks.

TV hunting is just dispicable. I remember when it was good entertainment as well as educational, but now it is all about the antlers and money.

 

[woodsman87]

I went through a trophy stage, where I wasn't going to shoot anything unless it was mountable, and It had to be big enough to impress my friends. I used to frown upon people for shooting yearlings. I am no longer like that. It makes me feel so much better now that I am mature as a sportsman, and if a hunter is happy with an animal he/she killed then congrats to them.

I hunt for myself now. If I feel like shooting a small 2-1/2 year old six point I shoot him. I do not post pictures of any animal I kill or fish I catch. I do not like to brag about anything that I shoot. It is a personal accomplishment to myself, so I keep it to myself.

 

[barkscraper]

Your right woodsman87 I have only me to please and i choose to hunt the 3 1/2 yr old deer and up,not the rack as much anymore. I killed nothing last yr passing on 14 different bucks. I HATE the RACK IN A SACK seed and mineral companies the staged tv shows it has done more damage to our sport than anything else listed. We need to hunt to please our self so we as hunters need to start looking around to see what we are supporting

 

[mike243]

Throw EHD into the mix & you might find part of the reasons for some states wanting a lower deer density # ,they were trying to kill every deer in some states & county's in order to stop it. It can occur naturally so it wont ever be eradicated but the spread can be slowed down by limiting the population

 

[BSK]

Throw EHD into the mix & you might find part of the reasons for some states wanting a lower deer density # ,they were trying to kill every deer in some states & county's in order to stop it. It can occur naturally so it wont ever be eradicated but the spread can be slowed down by limiting the population

mike243,

EHD is not contagious. It does not spread from deer to deer. Deer density has no relation to outbreaks of EHD or those outbreaks' severity. The chance of an individual deer getting EHD is the same if the density is 5 or 50 deer per square mile.

 

[TNGunsmoke]

Throw EHD into the mix & you might find part of the reasons for some states wanting a lower deer density # ,they were trying to kill every deer in some states & county's in order to stop it. It can occur naturally so it wont ever be eradicated but the spread can be slowed down by limiting the population

I think you have EHD and CWD confused. CWD is the one that is speculated to be spread by too high a concentration of deer. I really wonder sometimes if they know exactly what causes it, I am just glad it has not yet been found here.

 

[landman]

TWRA showed a graph today that showed TN 3.5 yr old buck harvest has dropped the last 2-3 yrs we are now back to the same amount killed in 2008

 

[landman]

It's sad, but I've seen people in Texas ostracized, made fun of, and looked down on for their FIRST deer being a 2.5 and even 3.5 year old buck.

I remember one instance in particular where a young hunter (13-14 years old) walked away during the early season and never came back. He watched his father being ridiculed and chastised for killing his first deer, which was an 8 point buck that didn't meet other hunters standard (no rule violated). Way to introduce two new hunters to the sport.

That's the truth
that happens here(tndeer) too. there are those amongst us who belittle others' deer if they don't meet their standards.

 

[TheLBLman]

TWRA showed a graph today that showed TN 3.5 yr old buck harvest has dropped the last 2-3 yrs we are now back to the same amount killed in 2008

Wonder if it had anything to do with the November muzzleloader buck limit going from 1 to 3 bucks, was that about 4 years ago?

 

[landman]

TWRA showed a graph today that showed TN 3.5 yr old buck harvest has dropped the last 2-3 yrs we are now back to the same amount killed in 2008

Wonder if it had anything to do with the November muzzleloader buck limit going from 1 to 3 bucks, was that about 4 years ago?

Good point Wes.

But that couldn't be a factor....less than 2,500 killed 3 bucks this year
But at the same time 120,000 didn't kill a buck...those numbers are per TWRA
as of today

 

[AT Hiker]

TWRA showed a graph today that showed TN 3.5 yr old buck harvest has dropped the last 2-3 yrs we are now back to the same amount killed in 2008

Wonder if it had anything to do with the November muzzleloader buck limit going from 1 to 3 bucks, was that about 4 years ago?

Good point Wes.

But that couldn't be a factor....less than 2,500 killed 3 bucks this year
But at the same time 120,000 didn't kill a buck...those numbers are per TWRA
as of today

Im not one to argue with TWRA records, but 120,000 didnt kill one? I would like to see a breakdown of demographics on these people. Are they bird hunters and fisherman who buy a sportsmans tag, lifetime tag holders who dont deer hunt, relatives in town for a holiday, what? Im sure a laarge portion of them chose not to kill one as well. Then you got the folks who dont check them in, some say that number is not as high but I think it is higher than we think. For example; people using the landowner exemption, getting other people to check their kills in, killing more than the limit and not checking it in. We all know it happens, but to what extent is unknown. To be naive and say it is statistically irrelevant is the lazy way out.

 

[mike243]

Throw EHD into the mix & you might find part of the reasons for some states wanting a lower deer density # ,they were trying to kill every deer in some states & county's in order to stop it. It can occur naturally so it wont ever be eradicated but the spread can be slowed down by limiting the population

I think you have EHD and CWD confused. CWD is the one that is speculated to be spread by too high a concentration of deer. I really wonder sometimes if they know exactly what causes it, I am just glad it has not yet been found here.

yep picked wrong disease name sorry

 

[BSK]

Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline?

Im not one to argue with TWRA records, but 120,000 didnt kill one? I would like to see a breakdown of demographics on these people. Are they bird hunters and fisherman who buy a sportsmans tag, lifetime tag holders who dont deer hunt, relatives in town for a holiday, what? Im sure a laarge portion of them chose not to kill one as well. Then you got the folks who dont check them in, some say that number is not as high but I think it is higher than we think. For example; people using the landowner exemption, getting other people to check their kills in, killing more than the limit and not checking it in. We all know it happens, but to what extent is unknown. To be naive and say it is statistically irrelevant is the lazy way out.

For the serious deer hunters, it's hard to imagine, but it really is true that of the 200,000+ DEER hunters (not all hunters) in TN, less than half kill even one deer each year. Only around 1 in 3 deer hunters kill even one buck each year. I believe the serious deer hunters severely under-estimate how many deer hunters only hunt opening weekend of gun season, and then maybe again around Thanksgiving. The average number of days deer hunted by deer hunters in TN is shockingly low, even with almost 4 total months of some type of deer season open. And all of these success rate numbers have held amazingly consistent for about the last 10 years.

However, I STRONGLY suspect that of that 1 in 3 deer hunters that are successful at killing at least one buck each year, there is a large subset of that group that is successful every year, and this subset are the "serious deer hunters." I suspect this group kills the vast majority of the bucks killed each year.

 

[TheLBLman]

Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline?

However, I STRONGLY suspect that of that 1 in 3 deer hunters that are successful at killing at least one buck each year, there is a large subset of that group that is successful every year, and this subset are the "serious deer hunters." I suspect this group kills the vast majority of the bucks killed each year.

Not only have you hit the nail on the head, but this, my friend, is thinking outside the box of just tabulating raw data!

THIS is why going from a 3-buck to a 2-buck limit may do much more for herd health than the data tabulators can imagine.

This issue is not so much how many hunters currently kill 3 bucks annually, or 2 bucks annually, but more about WHICH hunters consistently average killing 1 or more bucks annually. THESE are the hunters who will (by and large) voluntarily choose to raise their own standards on both their first and 2nd bucks when they do not have that 3rd buck tag. Not only will their actions improve buck:doe ratios and buck age structure, but these same actions will also increase the harvest success of those less-avid hunters who may only hunt a couple weekends a year during gun season.

Simply put, when the less avid go afield (mostly during the last half of November), there will be more bucks still living, increasing their odds of seeing one. (I suspect a lot more bucks will particularly survive the early November muzzleloader season.) At the same time, more bucks will survive period, herd dynamics and hunting opportunity improves for all hunters.

 

[Hoss]

Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline?

I don't find it difficult at all to imagine the lack of success among hunters. I have been saying it for years the largest roadblock to improving hunting success and hunter satisfaction and recruitment is the lack of access to quality land. Many, Many, Many hunters in Tennessee would like to take a deer, any deer, but do not have access to quality private land. They are discouraged to hunt public land, often times due to a bad experience or horror story. So they may hunt once or twice on land that is marginally conducive to good deer hunting and give up. I personally know at least 2 or 3 dozen people who hunted a lot in the late eighties and early nineties that got out of hunting altogether or at least effectively becaue in their words, "I don't have any place to go."
So if you have access to quality deer hunting opportunities on private land be grateful! And be responsible, because I can tell you it can go away before you know it, even if you do nothing wrong!!

 

[bowriter]

Im not one to argue with TWRA records, but 120,000 didnt kill one? I would like to see a breakdown of demographics on these people. Are they bird hunters and fisherman who buy a sportsmans tag, lifetime tag holders who dont deer hunt, relatives in town for a holiday, what? Im sure a laarge portion of them chose not to kill one as well. Then you got the folks who dont check them in, some say that number is not as high but I think it is higher than we think. For example; people using the landowner exemption, getting other people to check their kills in, killing more than the limit and not checking it in. We all know it happens, but to what extent is unknown. To be naive and say it is statistically irrelevant is the lazy way out.

For the serious deer hunters, it's hard to imagine, but it really is true that of the 200,000+ DEER hunters (not all hunters) in TN, less than half kill even one deer each year. Only around 1 in 3 deer hunters kill even one buck each year. I believe the serious deer hunters severely under-estimate how many deer hunters only hunt opening weekend of gun season, and then maybe again around Thanksgiving. The average number of days deer hunted by deer hunters in TN is shockingly low, even with almost 4 total months of some type of deer season open. And all of these success rate numbers have held amazingly consistent for about the last 10 years.

However, I STRONGLY suspect that of that 1 in 3 deer hunters that are successful at killing at least one buck each year, there is a large subset of that group that is successful every year, and this subset are the "serious deer hunters." I suspect this group kills the vast majority of the bucks killed each year.

Exactly and there is another factor you might consider.

The age of TN hunters is increasing. I suspect there is a growing number who are like me and don't really care about killing a buck unless it is one that seriously belongs on their wall. Therefore, as with me, they might kill four or five does and be done.

We go sit and enjoy the woods and shoot the first doe that comes along and that is our hunt for the day. For some, it is the hunt for the year.

 

[BSK]

However, I STRONGLY suspect that of that 1 in 3 deer hunters that are successful at killing at least one buck each year, there is a large subset of that group that is successful every year, and this subset are the "serious deer hunters." I suspect this group kills the vast majority of the bucks killed each year.

Not only have you hit the nail on the head, but this, my friend, is thinking outside the box of just tabulating raw data!

THIS is why going from a 3-buck to a 2-buck limit may do much more for herd health than the data tabulators can imagine.

This issue is not so much how many hunters currently kill 3 bucks annually, or 2 bucks annually, but more about WHICH hunters consistently average killing 1 or more bucks annually. THESE are the hunters who will (by and large) voluntarily choose to raise their own standards on both their first and 2nd bucks when they do not have that 3rd buck tag. Not only will their actions improve buck:doe ratios and buck age structure, but these same actions will also increase the harvest success of those less-avid hunters who may only hunt a couple weekends a year during gun season.

A real possibility Wes. I don't think going to a 2 buck limit would help much, but it very well might.

 

[TNlandowner]

Re: Deer population & hunter success in decline?

Gentlemen,
I am able to harvest mature bucks every year. Some years 1 buck, others 3, and more bucks (I hunt several states) on better years. So, place me in whatever statistical subset is appropriate. The key in my situation is I have a choice on which deer to harvest.
My question is why another hunter would attack my ability to pursue happiness by hunting mature bucks? Why are you worried if I harvest three mature bucks on lands that we manage?

In all fairness, I don't understand the push for buck limit reductions. If a change is absolutely needed, why not focus on protecting younger bucks?

We should not be in such a rush to "over-regulate" deer hunting. One may simply view European models as an example of how to end hunting in the USA.