You guys ever notice any difference and if so what do you look for?? Have always hunted private. Just like clockwork scrape lines are going to be in some of the same ole places. Hunting some land this year that use to be public and just not seeing much sign. I know the deer are there because there are trails like freeways, but in geographical areas that you would think deer would love to be, there are no scrapes or rubs.
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Deer sign on private vs public.
- Thread starter Bushape
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Rubs and scrapes should pick up in another 3-4 weeks
Sorry. What I meant to say was I am not seeing any old sign. Obviously I may just be looking in the wrong spots so far but wasn't sure what some of this board has experienced on public land. Will public deer lay down sign just like deer that experience lighter intrusion?
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
No "rule" to sign. I have seen the most incredible sign, rubs, scrapes, trails, etc on public and private and I have seen little to no sign on public and private. Just depends on the area.
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I see the same sign on public/private. Typically with the pressure I believe a lot of activity on public goes nocturnal.
tree_ghost
Well-Known Member
Good answer! My experience has been the same. I've had parcels that were loaded with bucks that if you didn't have them on camera you would never guess a deer lived there much less a buck due to the lack of sign. I've also had them tear the woods up so much with sign you'd think elk were in there rutting…I have never been able to tell why they lay down sign hard sometimes in some places and at other times it looks like a deer desert?
Yes, but in my experience mostly at night.
The longer I hunt the less sign means to me. Sat and watched 4 young bucks, the biggest a 4 point absolutely tear up an acre on the edge of a field. Rubbed almost every tree including some big ones, and make at least 6 scrapes. If I was going by sign, I would have hunted that area HARD> The strange thing is that nobody ever sees does or bigger bucks in that spot. Its always dink bucks. No idea why.
Im much more interested in feed, or better yet, pinch points in travel routes.
Im much more interested in feed, or better yet, pinch points in travel routes.
DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
I've seen buck sign on public same as private and I like seeing buck sign as much as anybody but dont let the lack of it worry you. Find a well used travel corridor deer are using. Look for edge or transition from one type of habitat to another. And try a mid day or all day hunt on public...at lunch when everyone else is walking to truck they may push deer your way.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Biological reasons exist for differences in sign-making activity (differences in sex ratio, buck age structure, and buck density). At the same time, I've seen inexplicable differences in sign-making, where a herd should be making a lot of sign based on biology, but they just aren't.
East TN Bowhunter
Well-Known Member
I scouted public last weekend and found several fresh rubs, some of them were lightly rubbed and were not shredded yet by any means. If you didn't know where to look you probably would've walked right by them and never seen them. I also found a couple big fresh scrapes that had licking branches over them and rubs on the tree behind them.
I once watched one old buck make a hundred rubs & scrapes in a 1/4 acre area in about 10 minutes because there were younger bucks chasing a doe back & forth through and it was driving him bonkers. Rather than chase her too he just stayed in the middle making rubs. If I didn't see it happen and just stumbled in there I'd swear I was in the middle of a big buck's lair when in reality it was nothing of the sort. I could sit that spot the rest of the season & not see a deer.
Seeing a scrape or rub is like reading one page of a novel. It's not telling you much by itself. You must have the woodsmanship to analyze the big picture so you can put that sign in context. Otherwise all you know is that a deer was there at some point before you. You have no clue when or if he's coming back until you read the rest of book. Every sign corresponds with something. Could be a food source, travel intersection, or just a fleeting moment of passion like I described above. Some of those things are varying degrees of temporary and some are static. Case in point, when I see a visible depression under a scrape I know it's been used a lot for a lot of years and likely indicates a trail intersection or really big white oak that consistently produces, or some other reason for deer to be regularly congregated in that spot. The sign by itself doesn't tell much. You've got to figure out why it's there.
Food sources shift with time and with it so do the travel corridors and eventually bedding areas. Sign may or may not be left at each stage. And the sign that exists may or may not be relevant to right now. If raccoons in one night ate all the persimmons from a tree that bucks had been scraping under/near for three weeks, then those scrapes are immediately dead. Bucks are gone because does are gone because food is gone. That quick. But you can still scout around the scrape and realize why it was there in the first place, and plan a hunt for next season. That's why post season scouting is so important. You get to see everywhere deer were throughout the season and if you can figure out why/when then you can effectively be waiting for them next season. Very seldom does finding sign during season or pre-season give you much to work with inside that same season, in my experience.
Seeing a scrape or rub is like reading one page of a novel. It's not telling you much by itself. You must have the woodsmanship to analyze the big picture so you can put that sign in context. Otherwise all you know is that a deer was there at some point before you. You have no clue when or if he's coming back until you read the rest of book. Every sign corresponds with something. Could be a food source, travel intersection, or just a fleeting moment of passion like I described above. Some of those things are varying degrees of temporary and some are static. Case in point, when I see a visible depression under a scrape I know it's been used a lot for a lot of years and likely indicates a trail intersection or really big white oak that consistently produces, or some other reason for deer to be regularly congregated in that spot. The sign by itself doesn't tell much. You've got to figure out why it's there.
Food sources shift with time and with it so do the travel corridors and eventually bedding areas. Sign may or may not be left at each stage. And the sign that exists may or may not be relevant to right now. If raccoons in one night ate all the persimmons from a tree that bucks had been scraping under/near for three weeks, then those scrapes are immediately dead. Bucks are gone because does are gone because food is gone. That quick. But you can still scout around the scrape and realize why it was there in the first place, and plan a hunt for next season. That's why post season scouting is so important. You get to see everywhere deer were throughout the season and if you can figure out why/when then you can effectively be waiting for them next season. Very seldom does finding sign during season or pre-season give you much to work with inside that same season, in my experience.
x2. I see some of the most amazing field edge or logging road scrapes every year on public. Night time only.
If you're seeing tons of heavy trails but no historical buck sign, could be mostly doe. I'd still think that could be good during the rut though.
I've noticed some properties are just travel corridors and deer don't hang around long enough to make alot if sign . With that said they will make trails as you said .
BSK
Well-Known Member
Just goes to show the influence hunting pressure has on buck behavior. Put a lot of hunting pressure on them, and most of their activities occur at night.
On my private property, which gets a moderate amount of pressure, the most obvious change in scraping behavior occurs as the hunting pressure increases. Early in the season, field-edge scrapes get almost as much activity in daylight by older bucks as scrapes "back in the woods." As the season progresses and hunting pressure increases, daylight use of field-edge scrapes declines fairly precipitously, yet "woods" scrapes hold fairly steady.
The exact numbers over the last 12 years are:
Percent of scrape visits in Daylight by 2 1/2+ year-old bucks
Field Edge
October - 30%
November - 22%
December - 12%
Woods
October - 32%
November - 33%
December - 29%
For as long as I've ran trail cams I've seen that same pattern of scrape activity shifting to after dark. I always attributed it to leaf fall because that's the only constant I could find across all the properties. Hunting pressure varies from property to property year to year but even on unpressured properties the pattern still plays out. The only thing that always changes and does so at about same time every year is leaf cover. Over the course of November the deer woods progressively goes from fully clothed to naked, and scrape timing seems to mirror it. That's not to argue hunting pressure isn't a factor. It's just another possible explanation.
BSK
Well-Known Member
The only reason I suspect it is hunting pressure is that even with leaf fall, daylight activity at "woods" scrapes maintains a fairly steady level, even from October to December, but field-edge scrapes (mostly on food plots that are being hunted) falls off dramatically as the season wears on. But that could be just coincidence, and some other factor is at play.
Another interesting statistic is the percent of scrape visits that are during legal daylight (hunting hours) by buck age. This data is not broken down by month, so it includes all scrape visits from Oct 1 through Dec 31:
Daylight Yearlings visits
Field-edge - 46%
Woods - 54%
Daylight Middle-aged buck (2 1/2 and 3 1/2) visits
Field-edge - 22%
Woods - 34%
Daylight mature buck (4 1/2+) visits
Field-edge - 11%
Woods - 21%
Obviously, the older a buck is, the less scraping he does in daylight. But for all ages, woods scrapes see more daylight usage than field-edge scrapes.
I see the same. Most field edge scrape activity I see at all is generally confined to very early season and really tapers fast as season goes on. I've wondered if it was due to grasses dying down or being cut for hay, or if hunting pressure caused it. Just inside the cover from the field edge scrapes seem to remain active.
