For Those That Think Hevi-13 #7's Won't Kill

Brad C. said:
You better read this.

Lead 5's won't do that at that distance.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=612543
Click to expand...
Very devastating shot there, no doubt. No one has to convince me that the Hevi-13 7s are killers, I have seen it from several hunters for a few years now. With that said, I totally disagree with the statement about the lead 5s(with the right gun/choke combination). I have seen firsthand 12 gauge 3.5" Win HV lead #5s smoke one (never flop) at 61 of my steps (I am 6' 3" with a pretty decent stride). By no means would I advocate anyone shooting a turkey at that distance, but it did happen once, I know this for certain. Shoot what makes you happy.
 
I never said lead 5's wouldn't kill one at that distance, but I was trying to say that lead 5's wouldn't cause near the destruction at that distance as those 7's. I still believe from what I have seen that those 7's will out penetrate a lead 5 load. No question in my mind.
 
FLIPPER said:
But does it really matter?

Dead is dead.

I use 4's and they will kill at 60+yds. ;)
Click to expand...

Your just killing them with a lucky pellet is all if you use 4's at that distance.

Go to post #15 here and you can see how the 835 from the guy that shot this turkey in the link above can shoot at 40yds. I challenge your 4's to even come close to half of that many shot in a 10" at that same distance of 40yds. Those 7's will tear your 4's to hell. Head and neck shots with good pattern density is what kills turkey consistently, and not 1 lucky pellet from number 4's.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=611197&highlight=
 
Brad C. said:
FLIPPER said:
But does it really matter?

Dead is dead.

I use 4's and they will kill at 60+yds. ;)
Click to expand...

Your just killing them with a lucky pellet is all if you use 4's.

Go to post #15 here and you can see how the 835 from the guy that shot this turkey in the link above can shoot at 40yds. I challenge your 4's to even come close to half of that many shot in a 10" at that same distance of 40yds. Those 7's will tear your 4's to hell. Head and neck shots with good pattern denisty is what kills turkey consistently, and not 1 lucky pellet from number 4's.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=611197&highlight=
Click to expand...

When I miss one...I will except your challenge. ;)
 
I used to shoot nothing but 4's. They worked. The Hevi-13 #7's work a lot better. The thing about 4's is that you do well to put 100 shot in the 10" at 40yds with them consistently.

I can put around 300 with the 7's out of my 835. My 870 shoots them very well too.

DSCF00844.jpg

DSCF0056_Small_.jpg
DSCF0066_Small_.jpg


I'm sure glad I made the switch. Look at this 24lb bird that isn't.

http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,1421.0.html
 
And I agree with that. I like overkilling my birds. The Hevi-13 #7 loads allow me to do just that. I just laugh at folks that think 4's are better. But I used to think the same way.
 
Swamphunter said:
I think everyone should pattern their gun and shoot what they like. I love Ext. Range #5's but I don't expect everybody to do what I do. :)
Click to expand...
X2
 
Brad C. said:
I just laugh at folks that think 4's are better. But I used to think the same way.
Click to expand...
Please explain logically how the Hevi #7s are better. I do not want to hear what one "thinks", but exactly how they are better.
 
Brad C. said:
I just laugh at folks that think 4's are better. But I used to think the same way.
Click to expand...
I just laugh at folks who do not understand simple physics (joking). The force of a pellet is what kills a turkey, when it strikes the brain or spine, or when multiple pellets strike the brain or spine at the same instant. Simple physics tells us that force equals mass times acceleration (f=m*a). For our example, lets assume the velocity is constant at all distances (0,10,20,30,40,50). This tells me that the "mass" of the pellet is going to dictate how much force is actually delivered at the point of impact. The mass of a Hevi-13 #7 pellet is .1116 grams, #6 lead pellet is .1291 grams, #5 lead pellet is .1676 grams and #4 lead pellet is .2131 grams. Theoretically speaking, the ONLY way one can expect as much force from a #7 Hevi load is to hope that more pellets strike the kill zone at the point of impact (than the other combination being compared to). As many like to think, this is not directly linked to the # of pellets in the load as many fly right by the turkeys head and are never a factor in the demise of the turkey. One would have to shoot the turkey at the same distance under the same conditions and retrieve all pellets from both loads to complete a direct comparison before I would believe that one is overall better than the next. With that said, I shoot Nitros H517T and Hevi Blend 4X5X7 because they shoot great in my gun/choke combination (not because they are better). My turkey hunting mentor (60+ years old) has killed 350+ longbeards in the spring over the last 30+ years (traveling to multiple states) and you could not sell him a Hevi shot shell. He thinks they are hideous because of the price and better yet because he told me he killed 150+ of those longbeards with 2 3/4" shells back before all of the super chokes and super turkey loads were available. My point here is to each his own, just shoot what makes you happy unless you can really prove one is all around better than the other (killing efficiency, availability, price, pattern, recoil, etc). In my opinion, there are a lot of factors to consider when one claims something is "all around better" than the next.
 
I'll be shooting them! I would agree with the bigger shot if the aim was to body-shoot a bird, but when the spinal cord is spaghetti thin, number 7 Hevis will do just fine, especially when there's twice as many pellets. People have been killing them for years though, with every shot in the book. My little boy shoots low brass #6s in a 20 gauge, and I wish we had had a shot this weekend! As far as the #7 Hevis go, I can only handle the 3 inch shells, or I'll flinch too much to even hit the bird expecting the kick
 
Good post, Andy, and I'm in general agreement. :)

Andy S. said:
Simple physics tells us that force equals mass times acceleration (f=m*a). For our example, lets assume the velocity is constant at all distances (0,10,20,30,40,50). . . . . .
Theoretically speaking, the ONLY way one can expect as much force from a #7 Hevi load is to hope that more pellets strike the kill zone at the point of impact (than the other combination being compared to). . . . . .
Click to expand...
HOWEVER, I think there is a little more to it than just this.

When we're using a "more dense" material (tungsten) vs. a "less dense" material (lead), the "more dense" material will retain more of it's initial velocity at great distances. In other words, we could say those "heavier than lead" pellets have a better ballistic coefficient (less air resistance in flight). If both a #5 lead pellet and a #7 tungsten pellet exited a barrel at 1200 fps, which one would have the higher velocity at 45 yards?

Another issue is in regard to penetration.
It's not just an issue of "force" (mass x acceleration).

What will provide deeper penetration among two arrows of the same mass at the same acceleration, a sharp field point, or a blunt point? Two pounds of force might push a sharp needle thru leather, but it won't push a dull pencil thru it.

When we go to "heavier" materials, they become somewhat like comparing a sharp broadhead to a dull one (in terms of penetration). At issue, are these "heavier" materials worth the price, and are they really "needed"?

Andy S. said:
My turkey hunting mentor (60+ years old) has killed 350+ longbeards in the spring over the last 30+ years (traveling to multiple states) and you could not sell him a Hevi shot shell. He thinks they are hideous because of the price and better yet because he told me he killed 150+ of those longbeards with 2 3/4" shells back before all of the super chokes and super turkey loads were available. My point here is to each his own, just shoot what makes you happy unless you can really prove one is all around better than the other (killing efficiency, availability, price, pattern, recoil, etc). In my opinion, there are a lot of factors to consider when one claims something is "all around better" than the next.
Click to expand...
TOTALLY AGREE! ;)
Except that I see their higher price becoming neglible in terms of the total expense we spend on our turkey hunting.

[size]Main point: Most turkeys are fired up at under 30 yards.
Truth is, it may matter very little what gun, what choke, or what shells you're using. What matters more are your turkey hunting skills, and your understanding the limitations of whatever weapon you're using.[/size]
 
Andy,

The principle behind harder shot is that it will penetrate way better than bigger lead pellets.

The guys that shoot TSS in either 8's or 9's in either 12GA or 20GA have really got the advantage even more over hevi-shot or lead.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=611712

They will kill simply better or simply deader if you will.
 
I've been debating the TSS roll-your-own for a while now. Would like to dabble in them just because I think it would be fun to make my own shells. I've killed several turkeys just over 50 yds with my lead Winchester High Velocity 3" 1-3/4 oz #5 shot, and thought I never would buy into the hype of the HTL shot. But..... I picked up some #7 Hevishot and Magnum Blend Hevishot this year and am pleased with its performance. The Magnum Blend patterns slightly better out of my setup (870 supermagnum with Indian Creek .665 choke) than do the #7 shells. I'm going to have the Magnum Blend loaded every time I step into the woods this spring for sure.

40 yds. 10" circle hits:

Winchester #5 High Velocity 3" 1-3/4 oz - 138 hits
Hevishot Magnum Blend 3" 2oz - 209 hits
Hevishot #7 3" 2oz - 204 hits
 

Latest posts

Back
Top