Goodbye 6.5 Needmore-😎

[megalomaniac]

Well.... just think what 'COULD' be possible....

IF the new steel alloy case is reloadable multiple times and holds up... getting 80k PSI out of traditional cartridges would be insane.

I could see getting 3000 fps from the 168s in .308 with a 16in bbl....

Too early to say... but could be revolutionary... or could be a very expensive pipe bomb

 

[vonb]

A solution looking for a problem.

It won't replace the Creedmoor simply due to the cost barrier and people's lack of access to ammo/components for it. Let alone, recoil isn't fun. DOA

 

[Spurhunter]

The 6.5cm haters are the male versions of Whoopi Goldberg and her cohorts on The View. Where Whoopi and those morons allow President Trump to live rent free in their heads 24/7/365, the 6.5cm crybabies allow a rifle cartridge to live rent free in their heads 24/7/365. It doesn't affect my life 1 iota what someone else chooses to shoot.

 

[REN]

After watching a few videos and reading some info on this new cartridge I am actually pretty excited. Not so much in this specific cartridge, but in the direction we may be going in new cartridge design. IF (thats a big IF) there is a movement toward shorter barrel designs that velocities equate to the longer barrel version of it then Im all about that. Granted I hunt suppressed, but man I would be ALL ABOUT the ability to run a 16-18" barrel gun that holds the same velocity as a 24" one.

Personally I dont care much about the reloadable part as long as the factory offerings are somewhat easy to find and are priced in the same area as the normal version of the gun. IMO something like this is a great direction with new load developments with the rise in suppressed hunting vs whats been going on the past 10 years of just redesigning old calibers (6.5 = 270). As mentioned before, I wont be rushing out to get one but will be watching it closely over time to see what happens and how it keeps developing and what all rifle manufactures jump on board. If Bergara for example were to start adding it to their rifles down the road I may look a little more into it. Seems at the moment Savage is the only one on board that is in a price I would even consider, but Im not a big Savage guy. The others like Seekins, Horizon, Proof etc are all WELL above what I would spend on a rifle for my needs.

 

[DaveTN]

Gee... with all these designer cartridges I hope they don't decide to kick my .308 to the curb.

 

[Kevin Snook]

After watching a few videos and reading some info on this new cartridge I am actually pretty excited. Not so much in this specific cartridge, but in the direction we may be going in new cartridge design. IF (thats a big IF) there is a movement toward shorter barrel designs that velocities equate to the longer barrel version of it then Im all about that. Granted I hunt suppressed, but man I would be ALL ABOUT the ability to run a 16-18" barrel gun that holds the same velocity as a 24" one.

Personally I dont care much about the reloadable part as long as the factory offerings are somewhat easy to find and are priced in the same area as the normal version of the gun. IMO something like this is a great direction with new load developments with the rise in suppressed hunting vs whats been going on the past 10 years of just redesigning old calibers (6.5 = 270). As mentioned before, I wont be rushing out to get one but will be watching it closely over time to see what happens and how it keeps developing and what all rifle manufactures jump on board. If Bergara for example were to start adding it to their rifles down the road I may look a little more into it. Seems at the moment Savage is the only one on board that is in a price I would even consider, but Im not a big Savage guy. The others like Seekins, Horizon, Proof etc are all WELL above what I would spend on a rifle for my needs

Gee... with all these designer cartridges I hope they don't decide to kick my .308 to the curb.

No worries on that—the .30 cals will still be standing when all the "Gucci" guns have faded into obscurity…

 

[REN]

No worries on that—the .30 cals will still be standing when all the "Gucci" guns have faded into obscurity…

thats not what I was saying at all, my point is it would be cool to be able to run a 16-18" barrel 308 but still get the same velocity a longer barrel standard 308 gets. To people who dont care about shorter barrels or hunting suppressed I can see how that doesnt mean much. To all of us that DO, its a cool step in the right direction.

 

[REN]

Gee... with all these designer cartridges I hope they don't decide to kick my .308 to the curb.

At one point a cordless phone was silly. Nothing wrong with a 308 but it also has not been innovated on in 100 years minus powder options. Nothing wrong with trying to improve on a tried and true round with how far technology has advanced.

Some are in the "if it aint broke, dont fix it crowd" and others in the "it aint broke, but see if we can make it even better crowd". Generally speaking I tend to be in the latter, but understand some are in the former.

 

[Kevin Snook]

thats not what I was saying at all, my point is it would be cool to be able to run a 16-18" barrel 308 but still get the same velocity a longer barrel standard 308 gets. To people who dont care about shorter barrels or hunting suppressed I can see how that doesnt mean much. To all of us that DO, its a cool step in the right direction.

Whoops-sorry I replied to the wrong post-

 

[Kevin Snook]

Whoops-sorry I replied to the wrong post-

Wait, no I didn't—

 

[Kevin Snook]

I was replying to DaveTn post

 

[DaveTN]

I was just being facetious. Arguing about calibers is silly. But it is fun sometimes.

 

[REN]

I do find it odd the first one they did was a long action round, which kinda defeats part of the short barrel lightweight rifle purpose

 

[megalomaniac]

I do find it odd the first one they did was a long action round, which kinda defeats part of the short barrel lightweight rifle purpose

Have to compete with true magnums while doing it with a bbl 6 inches shorter than most magnums.

If they had done a 7-08 AI knockoff, it would replicate the .280.

Using the alloy steel case in a long action with std bolt face allows them to get true magnum velocities with ultrashort barrels. This cartridge legit outperforms the 7mm rem mag and 7mmprc with 15g less powder WHILE in a 6in shorter bbl. The increased performance is THAT remarkable. At the expense of much higher pressures and much shorter bbl life.

IF federal sells rights to their alloy, folks could take a 6.5 creedmore with the new case and outperform the regular brass 6.5 PRC.

The case itself has the potential of being the single greatest innovation in metallic cartridges of our lifetimes.

Wildcatting will be out. Not sure if the case will stretch like brass, but I imagine case trimming, chamferring, and deburring will be a PITA.

 

[MUP]

All prep tools shall be carbide from here on with those cases

 

[scn]

I will stick with the gay 270

I always figured if it was good enough to be J O'Connor's favorite round for most of his hunting, it ought to work for me.

 

[REN]

After watching a bunch of videos and opinions on this, the big take away I got from this is this new case technology COULD (and thats a big COULD) end up being one of the biggest cartridge innovations in 100 years.

Now that depends a lot of what Federal does with the patents on the casing, reloading manufactures making components to be able to reliably work with the casings, and how many rifle manufactures and ammo manufactures can come on board. Now federal has come out and said it will be re loadable and allegedly there is a company actively working on dies and tools to work with the casing but no time line yet. Federal also has said the cost of factory ammo will be in line with standard 7PRC ammo they offer. Will also obviously depend on popularity of it to the public.

We saw this somewhat with the 6.8 western (not apples to apples in innovation, but limiting ammo manufactures and rifle company offerings) and due to their dumb decisions on some of that it is on tract to fizzle out.

Now if Federal really goes all in on it and allows their case technology to be used by others to manufacture the casings then it will allow it to be more available for popularity concerns. More gun manufactures offering affordable options for it, and more caliber/round options for it. Could even imagine it getting to the point of being able to create drop in ammo that fits in a currently chambered rifle such as a 6.5. At that point you wouldnt even need a new gun and could be able to drop it in your current 6.5 short barrel and get 6.5PRC performance out of it.

Either way IF IF IF this is the beginning of the innovation then this could be a spring board into all new performance levels and rounds that break all the age old rules. Now to be clear I geek out of stuff like this, I just love watching innovation on things that have not really changed much in years. Take something that works great and see how you can innovate to make it something we thought wasnt possible for a long time.

 

[jlanecr500]

This is similar to what happened with sml's. Doug's message board was the happening place 10 years ago but it was all with 209 ignition. Some claimed it was "figured out"
and couldn't get any better so they settled for what they knew. Then Jeff Hankins came to the board with the Hankins ignition system that utilized a large rifle magnum primer in a brass module that mimics a 308 cartridge case head. The ignition was hotter than anything we had in use and didn't generate the crazy pressures of the 209. It enabled us to reliably ignite large loads of slow burning powder. Some called us crazy and ignorant but we did it safely. I purchased pressure trace equipment and built a 28 pound pressure test gun that allowed me to accurately measure pressure and keep us in safe limits. Next, I bought QuickLoad software and found that I could predict chamber pressure within 1kpsi of actual measured pressure. It basically all but eliminated the need for pressure testing. I researched a lot and ended up speaking to a fellow who had spent a great deal of time scientifically testing and put together a list of barrel time nodes for a wide range of barrel lengths. This proved invaluable. This enabled me to dream up a load in QL, weigh up the charge and take it to the bench with amazing results.

Throughout this, Hankins and anyone who was associated with him were banned from Doug's message board. That was the beginning of the decline of the board. But that didnt stop the advancement. A new board was created and it was full steam ahead.

Other unnamed individuals copied the Hankins ignition system and attempted to make improvements that ended up being short-comings. Those underperforming systems are still sold today.

As time went on, we realized that the yellow brass modules needed to be stronger as we were getting into higher pressures. That's when Hankins introduced the alloy module, made of aluminum nickel bronze, they withstood higher pressures without the primer pockets getting loose. But in time, we exceeded their ability and that's when Phil, a fellow in NC developed the direct ignition system. It used a module that is a modified grade 9 5/16-24 aircraft screw. This was the final advancement. Those of us who launch heavy projectiles with large charges of slow burning powders at high velocities from heavy bench guns rely on them to get the job done. They truly mimic the ignition potential of magnum caliber cartridges such as the 338 Papua and 408 cheytac but can withstand pressures that the cartridges fail at. The direct ignition system is also a good single shot conversion ignition system.

So, there it is in a nutshell. We have made similar advancements to get to where we are today. I'm sure that this new cartridge is more advanced but for a bunch of everyday Joe's with the only research funding coming from our pockets, I think we have accomplished a lot. Can we go further ? Yes, we can, but this is no longer a CVA with 2 pellets and a bullet. To do it safely, you must follow strick guidelines with extreme attention to detail, as it can be very dangerous otherwise. The same goes for this new cartridge. Most have never seen what high pressure can do when it escaped thru a weak area. It's just like a cutting torch but gets it's job done in milliseconds.

 

[ROVERBOY]

Yes with an alloy case to handle the pressure that we aren't sure can be reloaded? It's a bit odd. Impressive posted velocities for shorter barrels though.

Yeah, a alloy case. Peak Alloy is what they are calling it. Whatever that is, might be hard to resize in standard steel dies. Will have to be carbide for sure. Definitely whoever buys one, better buy a die set. I see a lot of cartridges come and go.