Harvest Numbers 2006-2018

[AT Hiker]

Insert the mic drop emoji for SCN!


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[Roost 1]

Spot-on Buddy.....

 

[Goodtimekiller]

Goodtimekiller... we may be looking at hunter numbers from a different perspective...

Some of us who have hunted 3 decades are comparing number of hunters back in the 90's to today- and that's clearly at least a 10 fold increase.

If this is only your 10th year or so hunting them, you may be comparing numbers from a decade ago to today. And those numbers are probably flat to slightly lower due to fewer birds to hunt, and to decreased availability to private lands. I'm sure numbers who only hunt public lands will also decline- from the numbers killed this year on LBL, Swan, Yuchi, Cheatham, etc I'm sure many will get discouraged and not bother going. Most of those places are just a glorified camping/ hiking trip now. Heck, even I was ready for the season to end on my lease in MS, having heard only 1 bird on it the entire season in about 12 hunts I went on.

Ive been hunting 27 years, turkeys 24. I'm sorry if you do not believe the data from the usfws and the state of tn. Could it be that hunting land has been greatly reduced so hunters are much more concentrated? You can't tell me we have near the amount of hunting land that we did 10 years ago. Sorry if you are talking about the 90s then there may be an increase in turkey hunters since it was just really picking up at that time frame and many parts of the states had very few birds then. I can tell you the areas i hunted then that i can still hunt have way more birds than they did then.

However, i was pretty sure the post was talking about hunter increases since 2010. Look up the data instead of basing on your subjective opinion.

The wma managers i have talked to say their numbers are not declining and catmans videos show several public land birds. The managers did say with the weather hunter numbers were way down.


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I've hunted chuck swan for over 20 years. I spoke with the area manager this week and he said the population has been on a steady decline for 5 years. I stopped applying because it was so bad a few years in a row.

Last fall I ran into the Royal Blue manager and he said they were seriously worried about the population as turkeys were not nearly as prolific as they were 10 years ago.

Again these are facts, you're assuming. You are in the minority, glad you think everything's great. There's a bunch of seasoned turkey folks here telling you the exact opposite of what you keep saying.

Are you so selfish you won't take a cut in tags? Are you so focused on you that you're unwilling to give up a little to save a lot? Honestly, your heads so far in the sand I'm not sure you can even hear what a bunch of very kmowledgable turkey folks keep saying. I'm calling bs on you turkey hunting for 20+ years based solely on your posts and General turkey knowledge.

So those are 2 wmas that you say are declining based on subjective data. I said the wma managers i talked to called hogwash that turkey population was declining on their wmas, once again subjective data.

The only thought i really expressed was that i thought the pop is decreasing in microareas. Like i said, if you took time to read it, the area ive been hunting for years are still steady. They arent decreasing but arent increasing. There are also a bunch of seasoned turkey hunters who agree with me, the exact opposite of what you are saying, but just dont take the time to try to discuss these issues on your little forum. Its like ut football call in radio, everybody sits back and listens to the whinos.

I never expressed my opinion one way or the other on the limits or seasons, i never even posted in the thread about "your ideal season" or whatever it was, so everything you are saying about me is based on nothing but assumptions. If you would listen to some of the things you are saying, they can't make sense.

Yall say the twra has no way of extrapolating data on turkey hunters, well they do, but its not perfect and if i can get a call back i will relay it to you.

But you really did hurt my feelings by calling me a liar. But i can guarantee my knowledge of turkeys and common sense is every bit as good as yours.

But i will say that any of you that truly believe this horrible turkey decline but killed a turkey this year, especially in the first two weeks if the season, you should lose your license for the next 2 years. If i believed as strongly about it as you guys, you couldn't get me to pick up a gun. You guys are not practicing what you're preaching.


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[Roost 1]

GTKiller, what area are you hunting? I hunt several areas in middle TN from north to south and I don't kno of a single place that has birds like they did 5yrs ago much less 10yrs ago.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

GTKiller, what area are you hunting? I hunt several areas in middle TN from north to south and I don't kno of a single place that has birds like they did 5yrs ago much less 10yrs ago.

All over montgomery, stewart and a small part of humphreys county


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[Roost 1]

I'd say none of those areas have birds like in the past. I have farms in Houston Co I don't even hunt anymore due to lack of birds. Even the farmers talk about how the huge flocks dis-appeared in a years time. I kno several guys in Montgomery and Stewart Co that although they still kill birds they have to hunt to find them. Harvests at fort Campbell have steadily declined from 400+ to 200+ to less than 75 this year. Based on all this I have to disagree with you. I live in Christian Co KY and I can tell you our birds numbers are as low as they've been since early 90's.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

I'd say none of those areas have birds like in the past. I have farms in Houston Co I don't even hunt anymore due to lack of birds. Even the farmers talk about how the huge flocks dis-appeared in a years time. I kno several guys in Montgomery and Stewart Co that although they still kill birds they have to hunt to find them. Harvests at fort Campbell have steadily declined from 400+ to 200+ to less than 75 this year. Based on all this I have to disagree with you. I live in Christian Co KY and I can tell you our birds numbers are as low as they've been since early 90's.

You can disagree with me all you want, i don't really care because none of those guys are hunting the farms that i hunt. I just picked up a 300 acre farm in houston county to coyote hunt. Owner drove me around it a few weeks before season, talked about all the turkeys on it. His other 200 acre farm i lease is covered up in jakes and longbeards. I have another farm in montgomery county i coyote hunt, 2 weeks before the season 330 birds in the bottom. I know because i called to tell the owner because he turkey hunts and he said yeah i know ive counted 330 in there several afternoons. A 200 acre stewart county farm i hunt has had at least 6 longbeards and 8 jakes that i have actually seen in hunting 2 days there. The main farm i hunt had 90 birds in the fall. The owner called me to tell me. Before season i was counting 30 hens, 6 longbeards and 6 jakes, from a parking spot with a limited view. 6 longbeards is the most ive ever seen on that farm at one time. Maybe the difference is i dont overpressure overhunt or overkill my farms. But i have been going with several other guys since the second week of the season and have seen tons of birds, everywhere, not just places we can hunt but farms everywhere on the side of the road. In 10 minutes of driving to work this morning, through a couple of farms, i saw 10-12 jakes, 6 longbeards and no telling how many hens, in 10 minutes. Like i said, i believe there probably are some areas that have declines but the farms that ive spent over 20 days on, have the same amount of longbeards, hens and possibly more jakes as i've seen in the last 10 years.

Not really sure why i took the time to type this, not like anyone one this thread will believe it. But once again, this is what i'm seeing. all of you guys that are seeing so much different and continue to kill birds, keep whining and not changing anything and continue to blame the twra.


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[Goodtimekiller]

I'd say none of those areas have birds like in the past. I have farms in Houston Co I don't even hunt anymore due to lack of birds. Even the farmers talk about how the huge flocks dis-appeared in a years time. I kno several guys in Montgomery and Stewart Co that although they still kill birds they have to hunt to find them. Harvests at fort Campbell have steadily declined from 400+ to 200+ to less than 75 this year. Based on all this I have to disagree with you. I live in Christian Co KY and I can tell you our birds numbers are as low as they've been since early 90's.

I would also say the ft campbell harvest numbers are extremely skewed this year. For one they dropped the limit to 2. Also, they decreased the number of civilian area, and civilians kill the majority of turkeys there. They have greatly decreased the number of total hunters allowed on and for the last 2 weekends hardly anyone has hunted there. I can say this because at least 2 mondays i tried to get on, there were 4 tas open for civilians, 2 gun and 2 bow that allowed about 6 total civilians to hunt, only 2 with a gun. And the weekends were not much better. And the first 2 weekends i was told only about 10% of enlisted spots had hunters. Last weekend they opened up more areas and as of 9am sunday morning there were 30 something civilians spots open. In the past, on a day like sunday, it would be hard to get into an area.


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[Roost 1]

I'm not blaming anyone. I wouldn't even know where to start. I'm glad you got plenty of bird now, enjoy while you can. It could be a completely different ball game next yr. sounds like your season should of been over rather quickly this year.
Normally it takes me about 4 days to be done in TN. Not this yr, as a matter of fact I won't kill 4 because i don't overhunt my properties either. Haven't killed 2 off the same farm in 2yrs. Maybe if you got a surplus you could invite me over, since we are not far apart. :tu:

 

[Roost 1]

I'd say none of those areas have birds like in the past. I have farms in Houston Co I don't even hunt anymore due to lack of birds. Even the farmers talk about how the huge flocks dis-appeared in a years time. I kno several guys in Montgomery and Stewart Co that although they still kill birds they have to hunt to find them. Harvests at fort Campbell have steadily declined from 400+ to 200+ to less than 75 this year. Based on all this I have to disagree with you. I live in Christian Co KY and I can tell you our birds numbers are as low as they've been since early 90's.

I would also say the ft campbell harvest numbers are extremely skewed this year. For one they dropped the limit to 2. Also, they decreased the number of civilian area, and civilians kill the majority of turkeys there. They have greatly decreased the number of total hunters allowed on and for the last 2 weekends hardly anyone has hunted there. I can say this because at least 2 mondays i tried to get on, there were 4 tas open for civilians, 2 gun and 2 bow that allowed about 6 total civilians to hunt, only 2 with a gun. And the weekends were not much better. And the first 2 weekends i was told only about 10% of enlisted spots had hunters. Last weekend they opened up more areas and as of 9am sunday morning there were 30 something civilians spots open. In the past, on a day like sunday, it would be hard to get into an area.


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Your assumptions are partly correct. But the harvests numbers have been declining for several yrs as has the population.
Following the same trend as TN. This is not an isolated issue.
FWIW: I've been hunting the fort since 91 and this is looking to be the first year I haven't killed at least one bird since '93.
However I've had some family issues that has kept me from hunting there so I don't blame it on lack of areas although they have been limited this year. Trump making America great again. Lots of training.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

I'm not blaming anyone. I wouldn't even know where to start. I'm glad you got plenty of bird now, enjoy while you can. It could be a completely different ball game next yr. sounds like your season should of been over rather quickly this year.
Normally it takes me about 4 days to be done in TN. Not this yr, as a matter of fact I won't kill 4 because i don't overhunt my properties either. Haven't killed 2 off the same farm in 2yrs. Maybe if you got a surplus you could invite me over, since we are not far apart. :tu:

i killed out in 9 days and saw 2 others die in that time. Ive been begging people to go just so i can film since i started off having a hard time getting on post and i had no connections in ky, wink wink. When do you want to go? Ive finally found a ky connection and will hopefully be there on sunday morning, taking an older gentleman here sunday afternoon, and taking my uncle in stewart co monday morning. Other than that and work im pretty open.


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[Goodtimekiller]

I'd say none of those areas have birds like in the past. I have farms in Houston Co I don't even hunt anymore due to lack of birds. Even the farmers talk about how the huge flocks dis-appeared in a years time. I kno several guys in Montgomery and Stewart Co that although they still kill birds they have to hunt to find them. Harvests at fort Campbell have steadily declined from 400+ to 200+ to less than 75 this year. Based on all this I have to disagree with you. I live in Christian Co KY and I can tell you our birds numbers are as low as they've been since early 90's.

I would also say the ft campbell harvest numbers are extremely skewed this year. For one they dropped the limit to 2. Also, they decreased the number of civilian area, and civilians kill the majority of turkeys there. They have greatly decreased the number of total hunters allowed on and for the last 2 weekends hardly anyone has hunted there. I can say this because at least 2 mondays i tried to get on, there were 4 tas open for civilians, 2 gun and 2 bow that allowed about 6 total civilians to hunt, only 2 with a gun. And the weekends were not much better. And the first 2 weekends i was told only about 10% of enlisted spots had hunters. Last weekend they opened up more areas and as of 9am sunday morning there were 30 something civilians spots open. In the past, on a day like sunday, it would be hard to get into an area.


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Your assumptions are partly correct. But the harvests numbers have been declining for several yrs as has the population.
Following the same trend as TN. This is not an isolated issue.
FWIW: I've been hunting the fort since 91 and this is looking to be the first year I haven't killed at least one bird since '93.
However I've had some family issues that has kept me from hunting there so I don't blame it on lack of areas although they have been limited this year. Trump making America great again. Lots of training.

I do agree harvests have been declining but think if all those things hadn't been there, it would be a good bit more than 75.


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[Roost 1]

Congrats on a great season and good luck the rest of the way.
If I can ever help you at the fort send me a pm.

On a side note, I do believe the fact that over 50% of TN total harvest happens the first week is detrimental. IMO, this causes hens to not be bred. I kno guys that will kill every gobbler on their place. Some people do not worry about the future.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

Congrats on a great season and good luck the rest of the way.
If I can ever help you at the fort send me a pm.

On a side note, I do believe the fact that over 50% of TN total harvest happens the first week is detrimental. IMO, this causes hens to not be bred. I kno guys that will kill every gobbler on their place. Some people do not worry about the future.

I do worry about the future and spend lots of time, money and effort trying to conserve what we have. The thing that got us into this argument was just the numbers i've seen show a decline in hunters, even turkey hunters. Not like that even makes that big of a difference. We should want more hunters, with more hunters we should be able to do more, have a bigger voice, but if it is hunters numbers or not it doesnt really matter. What matters is how to fix it (without reducing hunter numbers). Anyway, if i can ever help you, not sure how i could, but if i can feel free to ask.


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[bloodtrailing]

I'd say none of those areas have birds like in the past. I have farms in Houston Co I don't even hunt anymore due to lack of birds. Even the farmers talk about how the huge flocks dis-appeared in a years time. I kno several guys in Montgomery and Stewart Co that although they still kill birds they have to hunt to find them. Harvests at fort Campbell have steadily declined from 400+ to 200+ to less than 75 this year. Based on all this I have to disagree with you. I live in Christian Co KY and I can tell you our birds numbers are as low as they've been since early 90's.

You can disagree with me all you want, i don't really care because none of those guys are hunting the farms that i hunt. I just picked up a 300 acre farm in houston county to coyote hunt. Owner drove me around it a few weeks before season, talked about all the turkeys on it. His other 200 acre farm i lease is covered up in jakes and longbeards. I have another farm in montgomery county i coyote hunt, 2 weeks before the season 330 birds in the bottom. I know because i called to tell the owner because he turkey hunts and he said yeah i know ive counted 330 in there several afternoons. A 200 acre stewart county farm i hunt has had at least 6 longbeards and 8 jakes that i have actually seen in hunting 2 days there. The main farm i hunt had 90 birds in the fall. The owner called me to tell me. Before season i was counting 30 hens, 6 longbeards and 6 jakes, from a parking spot with a limited view. 6 longbeards is the most ive ever seen on that farm at one time. Maybe the difference is i dont overpressure overhunt or overkill my farms. But i have been going with several other guys since the second week of the season and have seen tons of birds, everywhere, not just places we can hunt but farms everywhere on the side of the road. In 10 minutes of driving to work this morning, through a couple of farms, i saw 10-12 jakes, 6 longbeards and no telling how many hens, in 10 minutes. Like i said, i believe there probably are some areas that have declines but the farms that ive spent over 20 days on, have the same amount of longbeards, hens and possibly more jakes as i've seen in the last 10 years.

Not really sure why i took the time to type this, not like anyone one this thread will believe it. But once again, this is what i'm seeing. all of you guys that are seeing so much different and continue to kill birds, keep whining and not changing anything and continue to blame the twra.


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Going to have to throw the BS flag that you counted 330 birds. Not saying there were not 329 or 331, but to say you can determine that number of turkeys running around bobbing heads without a turnstile is highly questionable.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

I'd say none of those areas have birds like in the past. I have farms in Houston Co I don't even hunt anymore due to lack of birds. Even the farmers talk about how the huge flocks dis-appeared in a years time. I kno several guys in Montgomery and Stewart Co that although they still kill birds they have to hunt to find them. Harvests at fort Campbell have steadily declined from 400+ to 200+ to less than 75 this year. Based on all this I have to disagree with you. I live in Christian Co KY and I can tell you our birds numbers are as low as they've been since early 90's.

You can disagree with me all you want, i don't really care because none of those guys are hunting the farms that i hunt. I just picked up a 300 acre farm in houston county to coyote hunt. Owner drove me around it a few weeks before season, talked about all the turkeys on it. His other 200 acre farm i lease is covered up in jakes and longbeards. I have another farm in montgomery county i coyote hunt, 2 weeks before the season 330 birds in the bottom. I know because i called to tell the owner because he turkey hunts and he said yeah i know ive counted 330 in there several afternoons. A 200 acre stewart county farm i hunt has had at least 6 longbeards and 8 jakes that i have actually seen in hunting 2 days there. The main farm i hunt had 90 birds in the fall. The owner called me to tell me. Before season i was counting 30 hens, 6 longbeards and 6 jakes, from a parking spot with a limited view. 6 longbeards is the most ive ever seen on that farm at one time. Maybe the difference is i dont overpressure overhunt or overkill my farms. But i have been going with several other guys since the second week of the season and have seen tons of birds, everywhere, not just places we can hunt but farms everywhere on the side of the road. In 10 minutes of driving to work this morning, through a couple of farms, i saw 10-12 jakes, 6 longbeards and no telling how many hens, in 10 minutes. Like i said, i believe there probably are some areas that have declines but the farms that ive spent over 20 days on, have the same amount of longbeards, hens and possibly more jakes as i've seen in the last 10 years.

Not really sure why i took the time to type this, not like anyone one this thread will believe it. But once again, this is what i'm seeing. all of you guys that are seeing so much different and continue to kill birds, keep whining and not changing anything and continue to blame the twra.


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Going to have to throw the BS flag that you counted 330 birds. Not saying there were not 329 or 331, but to say you can determine that number of turkeys running around bobbing heads without a turnstile is highly questionable.

i did not say i counted them, i said i saw a huge group of turkeys and called the landowner and he said he had been watching them several evenings and counted them and thats how i knew how many there were. I can tell you the group looked 100 yards long 40 yards wide. Most birds i can ever remember seeing in one spot. You may choose not to believe me but i will still sleep just fine tonight.


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[scn]

Congrats on a great season and good luck the rest of the way.
If I can ever help you at the fort send me a pm.

On a side note, I do believe the fact that over 50% of TN total harvest happens the first week is detrimental. IMO, this causes hens to not be bred. I kno guys that will kill every gobbler on their place. Some people do not worry about the future.

I do worry about the future and spend lots of time, money and effort trying to conserve what we have. The thing that got us into this argument was just the numbers i've seen show a decline in hunters, even turkey hunters. Not like that even makes that big of a difference. We should want more hunters, with more hunters we should be able to do more, have a bigger voice, but if it is hunters numbers or not it doesnt really matter. What matters is how to fix it (without reducing hunter numbers). Anyway, if i can ever help you, not sure how i could, but if i can feel free to ask.


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I'm curious on where you are getting your turkey hunter numbers since TWRA says those numbers don't exist.

The USFWS numbers that you keep quoting are the TOTAL number of hunters for ALL species. TN has a lesser decline that the USFWS average.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

Congrats on a great season and good luck the rest of the way.
If I can ever help you at the fort send me a pm.

On a side note, I do believe the fact that over 50% of TN total harvest happens the first week is detrimental. IMO, this causes hens to not be bred. I kno guys that will kill every gobbler on their place. Some people do not worry about the future.

I do worry about the future and spend lots of time, money and effort trying to conserve what we have. The thing that got us into this argument was just the numbers i've seen show a decline in hunters, even turkey hunters. Not like that even makes that big of a difference. We should want more hunters, with more hunters we should be able to do more, have a bigger voice, but if it is hunters numbers or not it doesnt really matter. What matters is how to fix it (without reducing hunter numbers). Anyway, if i can ever help you, not sure how i could, but if i can feel free to ask.


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I'm curious on where you are getting your turkey hunter numbers since TWRA says those numbers don't exist.

The USFWS numbers that you keep quoting are the TOTAL number of hunters for ALL species. TN has a lesser decline that the USFWS average.

Yes, if you would have read the earlier post its says the usfws are hunter numbers. There are ways to extrapolate tn numbers which is not extremely precise but can give one an idea from year to year. like i said i am waiting on those numbers.


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[scn]

From your statement: "The thing that got us into this argument was just the numbers i've seen show a decline in hunters, even turkey hunters", it looks like you are already extrapolating those USFWS number as an indicator of turkey hunters declining. I, personally, see no way to go from those total hunter number and make that type of a jump. And, I would love to have a link to any TWRA data that shows anything about turkey hunter numbers, period. I've been told it doesn't exist, so it will interest me if it does.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

From this statement: "The thing that got us into this argument was just the numbers i've seen show a decline in hunters, even turkey hunters", it looks like you are already extrapolating those USFWS number as an indicator of turkey hunters declining. I, personally, see no way to go from those total hunter number and make that type of a jump.

Sorry, i should have said "the numbers i've seen and what i've heard from state employees, indicate a decline in hunters, even turkey hunters." Sorry for the haste and lack of correct phrasing in my previous post. If you would have actually read the post i was referring to i hope it would have been clearer, i don't have time to go back through them all tonight because I have to be up in 4 hours to chase turkeys, so i hope this will clarify for everyone.


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