Food Plots Help with late summer grasses

[BSK]

There may not be answer to this, but any ideas would be welcome.

My problem is late-summer grasses that take over my summer plots. My summer plots are planted in non-Roundup Ready forage soybeans and sorghum (although I will be substituting dwarf sorghum [milo] for the sorghum this year). I use non-Roundup Ready soybeans because they are cheaper, and I cannot spray the plots without killing the sorghum, hence no need for Roundup Ready beans. The soybeans are for deer to eat, but the sorghum is for green manure that will be mowed down on top of my fall seed in September.

This mixture does fine through mid-July. The first video below was filmed July 8 of this last year. Other than the sorghum having been planted at too high of a density and grown too tall (why I'm switching to dwarf sorghum this year), everything is doing fine. Deer are still able to browse on the soybeans even though they are slowly getting chocked out by the too dense, too tall sorghum. However, the second video was recorded in the same location just a month later (Aug 10). Foxtail and fescue have taken over the plot. The foxtail is literally 9-10-feet tall.

Because I can't spray Roundup or a grass specific herbicide without killing the sorghum, any ideas on what I can do to keep these grasses from taking over my plots in late summer? I'm hoping to have deer using them right up until I seed my fall crop and mow the existing growth down on top the seed in mid-September.

 

[Popcorn]

Wow that's some world record foxtail you got there!
Do you plant forage beans?
If not definitely do that.
Eagle has a variety that actually vines to a degree saying that cause there may be a non-gly vining forage beans out there somewhere.
Beyond that increase your bean rate and add a couple more species that are more compatible with the beans like buckwheat, annual clover like balansa.
Otherwise get yourself a wick applicator for the front of your atv / UTV.
You will have to kill that foxtail then kill it a few more times.

 

[BSK]

Popcorn,

I haven't used the Eagle vining beans simply because of the cost. I'm using Hutchinson forage beans.

I may try a plot or two of buckwheat/balansa instead of the milo, so that I can use a wick applicator. Although strangely, I've used buckwheat in summer before and the deer hardly touch it. Then I plant it in fall and they go crazy over it. Still don't understand that.

The sorghums certainly do produce a great deal of green manure, but that foxtail is killing me.

 

[deerhunter10]

Popcorn,

I haven't used the Eagle vining beans simply because of the cost. I'm using Hutchinson forage beans.

I may try a plot or two of buckwheat/balansa instead of the milo, so that I can use a wick applicator. Although strangely, I've used buckwheat in summer before and the deer hardly touch it. Then I plant it in fall and they go crazy over it. Still don't understand that.

The sorghums certainly do produce a great deal of green manure, but that foxtail is killing me.

We used to fight foxtail in our hay fields which is a no no for horse quality hay. We had no choice but to use a preemergent to get it under control. We were told we could plant on top of it. May be an option. After a few years we didn't have to spray it. Foxtail and Johnson grass are the 2 that we have always fought the hardest. And hard to do anything with either without herbicides.

We have used the Eagle beans and were very impressed with them as well. We made a blend with peas and a small amount of sunflowers for the beans to climb. We have johnson grass problems in a few of our plots and that blend really suppressed it. We are planting it again this year. It's not perfect but it's worked decent enough for us to be satisfied.
Do you do your mow and no till method for your summer plots to or do you work them up?

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Millet and Johnson….UGH! Been battling those for 5-6 years. I think we've finally gotten it under control. Key is to spray it before it creates seed. Will be going through our plots with a spray nozzle to spot spray all the bad stuff a time or two before planting our summer crops. Which in spring, the main thing you see is thistle forming. Got to zap that early. I still have @Popcorn 's thread saved on this from last year - it's a must for this year in feb-mar for us:

Food Plots Thread 'Thistle crowns!'

Feb 20, 2024

Hey, yall want to get ahead of thistle now is the time! Established thistle can be hard to eradicate because of the large root in the ground that stores the plants energy. It's easy to kill the top but the it comes back.
Right now thru March thistle crowns are spreading and growing and are very vulnerable and they are relatively easy to find. Hit them hard with a strong mix of gly with a good surfactant and hurt them bad, mix in a little crossbow and be done with that one.
While you are at it look for mullen or lambs ear. It grows in the same soils that thistle likes and where I find one...

• Popcorn
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Food Plots

• 

I'm with Popcorn on preventing these grasses - I say buckwheat and/or annual clover should choke out most of the weeds, while getting shade from the sorghum once the beans start getting hammered

 

[Popcorn]

Popcorn,

I haven't used the Eagle vining beans simply because of the cost. I'm using Hutchinson forage beans.

I may try a plot or two of buckwheat/balansa instead of the milo, so that I can use a wick applicator. Although strangely, I've used buckwheat in summer before and the deer hardly touch it. Then I plant it in fall and they go crazy over it. Still don't understand that.

The sorghums certainly do produce a great deal of green manure, but that foxtail is killing me.

I chose the buckwheat and balansa due to their compatibility with your beans and sorghum. I suggest planting it all together as soon as the ground is warm enough for the sorghum. I am a huge fan of blending compatible species to achieve a better result. You will have to out compete that foxtail or kill it. Total shading of the ground is a good start.

I wonder about a reduced rate of gly at a reduced application rate to try to kill the foxtail before you kill the sorghum.?

 

[BSK]

Do you do your mow and no till method for your summer plots to or do you work them up?

Yes, summer crops are planted throw-and-mow. Once the fall-planted crimson and cereal grains have seeded out and died (usually May 15-20), we broadcast seed and mow the dead clover/wheat down on top the seed. We're getting better germination than I expected on the soybeans with this method, but this year I'm going to up the seeding rate a bit on the soybeans. Deer can wipe out a lot of newly germinated soybeans in short order!

 

[BSK]

What if I went with just a soybean/buckwheat/balansa mixture without the sorghum? That would allow me to use Clethodim on the foxtail in mid-summer, before it really starts to take off. Would the soybean/buckwheat/balansa mixture produce enough plant material to cover my fall seed in September when I throw-and-mow? Anything else I could throw in there for green manure that would not be harmed by clethodim?

 

[MickThompson]

Have you tried sunnhemp for green manure? Looks like you'll have to plot around you weed problems for a little while anyways.

What if you planted cereal rye or triticale in the fall for your mulch and drilled beans into it in the spring? Let the rye mature and stand through the summer before putting the fall stuff in? It'll be dead so you can douse it with a grass killer

 

[deerhunter10]

What if I went with just a soybean/buckwheat/balansa mixture without the sorghum? That would allow me to use Clethodim on the foxtail in mid-summer, before it really starts to take off. Would the soybean/buckwheat/balansa mixture produce enough plant material to cover my fall seed in September when I throw-and-mow? Anything else I could throw in there for green manure that would not be harmed by clethodim?

You could add cow peas as well. And spray them.

 

[BSK]

Have you tried sunnhemp for green manure? Looks like you'll have to plot around you weed problems for a little while anyways.

Oh yes! Amazing plant for green manure, as long as you don't plan on tilling that ground for a couple of years afterwards. Those plant fibers are like steel cables. I still have them wound into my tiller from years ago.

What if you planted cereal rye or triticale in the fall for your mulch and drilled beans into it in the spring? Let the rye mature and stand through the summer before putting the fall stuff in? It'll be dead so you can douse it with a grass killer

I used to be a big fan of cereal rye, especially in poor-quality soils. But the last few times I planted it army worms ate it all.

 

[MickThompson]

Oh yes! Amazing plant for green manure, as long as you don't plan on tilling that ground for a couple of years afterwards. Those plant fibers are like steel cables. I still have them wound into my tiller from years ago.


I used to be a big fan of cereal rye, especially in poor-quality soils. But the last few times I planted it army worms ate it all.

What if you drilled your rye in late October/November? Hardly ideal but just looking outside the box to get around your weed issues

 

[Popcorn]

Would the soybean/buckwheat/balansa mixture produce enough plant material to cover my fall seed in September when I throw-and-mow?

Depends on your browse pressure. But not like what you want likely.

Have you tried sunnhemp for green manure

Lower your rate , you are gonna throw and mow anyway!?

Crown vetch might be a contender. I use it down on the river where I can't seem to win against a never ending seed bank and creates an awesome mat when rolled down.

Or just nuke the problem areas a few times and plant them in the fall.

 

[MickThompson]

Depends on your browse pressure. But not like what you want likely.

Lower your rate , you are gonna throw and mow anyway!?

Crown vetch might be a contender. I use it down on the river where I can't seem to win against a never ending seed bank and creates an awesome mat when rolled down.

Or just nuke the problem areas a few times and plant them in the fall.

I wouldn't wish crownvetch on the Bidens

 

[tellico4x4]

What if I went with just a soybean/buckwheat/balansa mixture without the sorghum? That would allow me to use Clethodim on the foxtail in mid-summer, before it really starts to take off. Would the soybean/buckwheat/balansa mixture produce enough plant material to cover my fall seed in September when I throw-and-mow? Anything else I could throw in there for green manure that would not be harmed by clethodim?

Lab Lab & cow peas would be a good choice. Has been 4-5 years since since I've used them but always made a ton of forage. It's a really big bean so dont know how it would do not being covered in dirt though...

 

[BSK]

Lab Lab & cow peas would be a good choice. Has been 4-5 years since since I've used them but always made a ton of forage. It's a really big bean so dont know how it would do not being covered in dirt though...

View attachment 263441

So far, I've been fairly impressed with how well large-seeded plants will germinate only covered with mowed-down thatch. Although the thatch needs to be just the right thickness. Too thin, and the seed won't germinate (and birds will eat it quickly). Too thick and it will suppress germination. Below is a picture of my spring/early-summer planting of soybeans and sorghum a few weeks after throw-and-mow planting (and spraying with Roundup right after mowing). The soybeans are germinating fairly well, except where the thatch is really thick. I suspect running a cultipacker over the plots after mowing might actually help to flatten the thatch and produce more seed-to-soil contact. And by the way, that soybean planting was at 40 lbs/acre. This year I will up that seeding rate to 60-65#/acre (in addition to other plants). I don't have to worry as much about over-seeding and plant crowding because deer are going to let few of these plants mature.

And BTW, I was amazed so many of the Crimson Clover seed heads germinated after mowing them down. In the below picture, everything else "green" other than the soybeans in newly germinated Crimson Clover. In fact, that is why I used clethodim after my fall planting - so much Crimson Clover made it through the summer that I didn't want to kill it in fall.

tellico4x4,

I like both LabLab and Cowpeas. I've tried them before, and the only problems were: for LabLab, it's a slow grower at first, but then takes off in mid to late summer. With the small acreage of plots I had at the time, deer could wipe it out before it hit its growth spurt. For Cowpeas, they grew fine, but deer would leave them alone then suddenly wipe them out in just a day or two. Maybe with 4 times the food plot acreage as I used to have, and mixed with other species that can take some of the browse pressure off, they would do better than my earlier attempts with them.

 

[megalomaniac]

I've just about lost my largest plot in the summer due to grass competition, despite spraying gly at 3q per acre prior to planting.

I'm pulling out the big guns this spring and will prob put down atrazine and metoachlor as preemergents a month prior to planting my beans and sorgham.

The down side... that 8ac is going to be a barren wasteland for the last half of April and first half of May.

I'll let you guys know how it does...

 

[BSK]

I've just about lost my largest plot in the summer due to grass competition, despite spraying gly at 3q per acre prior to planting.

I'm pulling out the big guns this spring and will prob put down atrazine and metoachlor as preemergents a month prior to planting my beans and sorgham.

The down side... that 8ac is going to be a barren wasteland for the last half of April and first half of May.

I'll let you guys know how it does...

Very interested.

Although, that would prevent me from allowing my Crimson Clover to seed out. I'm really shocked at how well it is doing reseeding from just the seed heads mowed down. Below is how one of my plots looked in fall without adding any seed. This is just natural germination from the previous spring's seed heads mowed down in May, then the summer growth mowed down on top in August.

 

[megalomaniac]

I'm basically starting over on this plot. Grasses even choke out 50% of the fall planting on this spot. Although I have some much better soil after planting it for 5 years now.

 

[Popcorn]

I've just about lost my largest plot in the summer due to grass competition, despite spraying gly at 3q per acre prior to planting.

I'm pulling out the big guns this spring and will prob put down atrazine and metoachlor as preemergents a month prior to planting my beans and sorgham.

The down side... that 8ac is going to be a barren wasteland for the last half of April and first half of May.

I'll let you guys know how it does...

Yes keep us updated. Curious about the rate versus residual and its effects on your plantings.