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I have a case form problem ??

DaveTN

DaveTN

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EDITED 1-24-22 Bought a new Die Set….Problem solved

This is follow-up to my "I need a .308 WIN Cartridge Gauge in Murfreesboro" linked below.

I have never reloaded a rifle round. But I'm a Toolmaker and I know I have a problem. I don't know if its set-up or if I have a bad fill length sizing die. I'll give you all the details I can.

I'm using once fired brass cases fired by me in one of my two .308's; I don't know for sure which one. A Remington 700 VLS bought new by me and fired maybe 100 rounds and a DPMS 308 Recon LR-GII also bought new by me and fired maybe 300-400 at most. Both thoroughly cleaned after each use.

Since I don't know which guns these cases were fired in , or which gun they will be fired in in the future, I'm just trying to stay to spec.

I'm using a .308 Hornady case gage to check sizing prior to loading. Prior to having this gauge I ran about 50 cases though the LEE sizing die. It seemed really hard to get the last 1/4 inch or so of stroke, but I had nothing to compare to. So I got a case gage.

The instructions from LEE say to screw the die in until it touches the shell holder, lower the ram, then turn 1/4 to 1/3 turn farther and finger tighten the lock ring. That's what I did and that's how the first 50 cases were sized.

They don't come close to seating flush in the gauge. They stick up as much as .200". This is a used press and dies and the previous owner left a .308 cartridge with a seated bullet with no powder or primer in the case. I assume he was using this as a starting point for bullet seating depth. It doesn't set anywhere close to flush in the gauge either, and the bolt won't close on my 700 on it.

I have screwed the die in more than a full turn, probably closer to a turn and a quarter. The cases are closer to going flush in the gage, but still not enough.

I have set the decapper flush and tightened it so tight I'm concerned I may strip out the collet threads. When I size a case the decapper easily pushes up through the collet about .050 and then stays there. Even on a case that has already been ran through once. So I assume it is so tight on the case mouth it's pushing it up??

So I guess my question is… do I keep cranking this die down until the cases fits the gauge, or do I have something else going on?

These two pics show how much the decapper pushes up
LPEt3Q8.jpg

e4uJ3Ns.jpg


This is a factory loaded round flush in the gauge
NWQw6FD.jpg



This is the round that was in the die case.
2YSgNt4.jpg


These are what the first rounds I sized looked like in the gauge.
8Ub4UsE.jpg



 
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With that much difference, there is a problem. Even with 7.62 cases fired from our little birds there isn't that much of a bulge that regular dies wouldn't size better than that. Have you taken the die apart and inspected the insides? That die looks rough, seems someone took some pliers to it or something, so I question it's integrity.

Edit: PM me your number.
 
This is a tough one as far as the case gauge goes. Will a piece of your sized brass chamber in your rifle? I can tell you that if you try to make the brass work between your gas gun and your bolt gun you will forever be fighting a battle. I would allocate part of the brass to each gun individually. There is a chance that your gas gun will need small base dies for everything to run smoothly in it. That can be specific to each gun, so you might not need them.

If you crank the die down too far you could be crushing the shoulder on the brass. If it's once fired brass, try screwing the die in until it touches the shell holder. Size a piece of brass like that and see what happens. You probably don't need to bump the shoulder on that brass yet. Let us know if this does anything for you and we can keep working with you. As for the decapping rod, back it out. It only needs to be deep enough to punch the primer out.
 
DaveTN said:
The instructions from LEE say to screw the die in until it touches the shell holder, lower the ram, then turn 1/4 to 1/3 turn farther and finger tighten the lock ring. That's what I did and that's how the first 50 cases were sized.
Click to expand...
That doesn't sound right. Pretty sure for both rcbs and hornady, you back out your die and run the ram to the top with a shell holder on. Then run your die down all the way to touching the shell holder. Once it is touching the shell holder you back the die OUT one turn. The decapping pin should be approximately 1/4 inch below the die body. I don't own any Lee dies, but being that rcbs and hornady setup are about the same, those instructions don't sound right, and would likely crush the case like others have mentioned.
 
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Omega said:
With that much difference, there is a problem. Even with 7.62 cases fired from our little birds there isn't that much of a bulge that regular dies wouldn't size better than that. Have you taken the die apart and inspected the insides? That die looks rough, seems someone took some pliers to it or something, so I question it's integrity.

Edit: PM me your number.
Click to expand...
The form pin and the die look good best I can tell. The tapered sides of the die are clean and shiny, the neck area is not, but I suspect that would be expected?
There are some scratches on the pin where the collet clamps. That may be allowing it to slip.
 
With the Lee dies, it's the opposite, you run the die down until it touches the shell holder then turn it down a 1/8th or 1/4 turn. But the pin only needs to protrude 1/16th or so from the bottom of the case. If it pops up, that means it's too far down, and it's a safety feature. That's why it's so hard to reach the bottom of the sizing stroke.
 
nso123 said:
This is a tough one as far as the case gauge goes. Will a piece of your sized brass chamber in your rifle?
Click to expand...
No
nso123 said:
If you crank the die down too far you could be crushing the shoulder on the brass. If it's once fired brass, try screwing the die in until it touches the shell holder. Size a piece of brass like that and see what happens. You probably don't need to bump the shoulder on that brass yet. Let us know if this does anything for you and we can keep working with you. As for the decapping rod, back it out. It only needs to be deep enough to punch the primer out.
Click to expand...
I don't have a primer. I assumed it was just sizing and rounding the inside of the neck.
 
backyardtndeer said:
That doesn't sound right. Pretty sure for both rcbs and hornady, you back out your die and run the ram to the top with a shell holder on. Then run your die down all the way to touching the shell holder. Once it is touching the shell holder you back the die OUT one turn. The decapping pin should be approximately 1/4 inch below the die body. I don't own any Lee dies, but being that rcbs and hornady setup are about the same, those instructions don't sound right, and would likely crush the case like others have mentioned.
Click to expand...

xxoG3px.jpg
 
DaveTN said:
No

I don't have a primer. I assumed it was just sizing and rounding the inside of the neck.
Click to expand...
I am willing to bet that you are crushing the shoulder by sizing it too far. It's hard to notice if you haven't crushed one before. Try adjusting the die the way I mentioned above and see what happens. The shoulder is going to be your issue, not the base.
 
So with the die screwed down to the shell holder and the ram at the top, the sized brass still won't fit in either gun or just the Rem?

Do you know who made your shell holder? Is it Lee? Some are thicker than others. Sometimes on tight match chambers we need small base dies to get the brass to chamber. Before going that route (not your problem, I'm fairly certain with your firearms), you can carefully file down the top of the shell holder so with the ram at the top, the brass will go in a .001 or 2 or 3, depending on the amount of metal you removed from the shell holder.

I segregate my .308 brass by head stamp and every rifle only shoots certain headspace brass to allow for just neck sizing. Otherwise, I'll neck size several rounds and some of the them will go in some rifles and not others. Very frustrating and easy to fix.
 
Take the decap pin plum out if they're already decapped and size one. If it fits back out the decap pin so it opens the mouth a bit on the out strike. I can walk you thru this, much like everyone else, better over the phone if you need.
 
I'll try some of your other suggestions tomorrow or the next day. If things don't work out I'll order a new set of dies. I've sunk so much money into this project now that another $40 or $50 isn't really going to matter.
 

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