The bras that isn't going in the gauge looks to be Federal, so it's probably boxer.
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I have a case form problem ??
- Thread starter DaveTN
- Start date
Hollar at Walt, 221 Fireball, from the other place. He is not far from you and know a lot about reloading. Handsome Rob/Robtatoo would be another good guy to ask.
Small base die perhaps?
DaveB
Well-Known Member
Yes, somehow you are supposed to know this in advance.
Jut my own experience, but once you have the decap pin forced up by coming in contact with the base of the brass, you will need two hands to get the pin to the correct depth AND TIGHTEN IT UP. Or it will just slide up every time.
I use a lot of Lee components but all of my die sets are RCBS. Painful and expensive lessons learned.
It's so simple to set the depth on the pin with Lee dies. Keep it loose and size the brass. Push the rod down until it stops. Tighten it up. Doesn't need super strength lol. Good to go.
I was wondering about this as well. On my single stage Lee press, if I fail to lube cases or don't lube the length of the case, I immediately begin getting resistance when moving the ram handle. When I continue by forcing it, I'll end up with a stuck case 9 times out of 10. The tenth one usually results in a crushed shoulder. Both of which are hard on the equipment and fatal for the brass.
In any case, (pun intended) I would recommend unique sizing wax.
No. There are no berdan primers. And I am not pushing out primers. These have all been deprimed with a universal depriming die and cleaned prior to sizing.
When I get back to this I will try sizing without the decapping pin. The only thing that could be pushing that pin up a little is either the form part of the pin going through the neck, or with the pin flush, its going so far though its getting into where the taper on the pin starts and pushing it up. Thinking about it the latter is probably what's happening since is moves up a little and then stays. But I don't think that should cause the case to not fit a gauge.
I am using Imperial Sizing Die Wax. I have some Dillon Case lube that I will try. I have not had a stuck case.
I have parts of some trees down and the wife thinks that me cutting those up is more important than this. I know that's crazy, but you know how wives can be.
It's supposed to rain today, if it does I will get back to this and try a couple of things.
When I get back to this I will try sizing without the decapping pin. The only thing that could be pushing that pin up a little is either the form part of the pin going through the neck, or with the pin flush, its going so far though its getting into where the taper on the pin starts and pushing it up. Thinking about it the latter is probably what's happening since is moves up a little and then stays. But I don't think that should cause the case to not fit a gauge.
I am using Imperial Sizing Die Wax. I have some Dillon Case lube that I will try. I have not had a stuck case.
I have parts of some trees down and the wife thinks that me cutting those up is more important than this. I know that's crazy, but you know how wives can be.
It's supposed to rain today, if it does I will get back to this and try a couple of things.
Omega
Well-Known Member
The expander should be used most times, keeps the neck from possibly getting damaged/dented when you resize. But raise it about 1/16th of an inch above where the pin ends up after you finished the stroke last time. I think you are hitting the bottom of the case with the expander, which is why it gets so hard to finish the stroke. The imperial wax is fine, great actually, so that should not be an issue.No. There are no berdan primers. And I am not pushing out primers. These have all been deprimed with a universal depriming die and cleaned prior to sizing.
When I get back to this I will try sizing without the decapping pin. The only thing that could be pushing that pin up a little is either the form part of the pin going through the neck, or with the pin flush, its going so far though its getting into where the taper on the pin starts and pushing it up. Thinking about it the latter is probably what's happening since is moves up a little and then stays. But I don't think that should cause the case to not fit a gauge.
I am using Imperial Sizing Die Wax. I have some Dillon Case lube that I will try. I have not had a stuck case.
I have parts of some trees down and the wife thinks that me cutting those up is more important than this. I know that's crazy, but you know how wives can be.
This is the case. You may have worded the best so far lol.
backyardtndeer
Well-Known Member
This makes sense, and would also make sense that if the expander is getting that far into the case that the shoulder could get crushed. Sounds like you need to back your die off instead of tightening it down.
No. I don't think the shoulder is crushed at all. That's not how the die works. That rod needs to come up just a hair and the upstroke won't be near as hard. He's done said that he's tightened that nut about as tight as he could, which is not correct. That's a built in feature to help keep it from breaking the decap pin. That's why is keeps pushing up. It's designed that way.
Okay here is what I found….
I removed the pin.
Marked the press linkage so I could kinda tell if it was going all the way down.
Sat the die down 1/3 of a turn.
Reran a case that had die wax on it.
Still hard to press, press was all the way down, case still sticks up about .050 out of the gauge.
Turned the die in to about 3/4 turn. Not much change. The press was not going all the way. But how could it? It was hitting the Case holder.
Put the pin back in, backed die off to 1/3, made sure it was not hitting the case, switched from Imperial Die Wax to Dillon Case Lube. Acted like a different press. With the Dillon Lube it didn't take a quarter of the pressure to bottom out.
I can pop it up and down about 10 times and get a little deeper in the gauge, but still not flush. Maybe .010 to .020 high. The cases that are .010 to .020 high will chamber in my bolt gun, anymore and they won't without forcing.
So my assumptions are…
Either the gauge is bad, or the sizing die is bad. I can put factory loaded ammo in the gauge and its flush. So I don't think it's the gauge.
I can flip a case around and it will go 3/8 to 1/2" in the gage. I can run calipers around my case on the rim and the base above the rim. They are the same. So I don't suspect bulging or damage from the AR-10.
I believe that unless something is wrong with the press, and I don't know what that could be, the sizing die is bad. I think the shoulder is at or near max depth and can't go any deeper.
Does that sound logical?
I removed the pin.
Marked the press linkage so I could kinda tell if it was going all the way down.
Sat the die down 1/3 of a turn.
Reran a case that had die wax on it.
Still hard to press, press was all the way down, case still sticks up about .050 out of the gauge.
Turned the die in to about 3/4 turn. Not much change. The press was not going all the way. But how could it? It was hitting the Case holder.
Put the pin back in, backed die off to 1/3, made sure it was not hitting the case, switched from Imperial Die Wax to Dillon Case Lube. Acted like a different press. With the Dillon Lube it didn't take a quarter of the pressure to bottom out.
I can pop it up and down about 10 times and get a little deeper in the gauge, but still not flush. Maybe .010 to .020 high. The cases that are .010 to .020 high will chamber in my bolt gun, anymore and they won't without forcing.
So my assumptions are…
Either the gauge is bad, or the sizing die is bad. I can put factory loaded ammo in the gauge and its flush. So I don't think it's the gauge.
I can flip a case around and it will go 3/8 to 1/2" in the gage. I can run calipers around my case on the rim and the base above the rim. They are the same. So I don't suspect bulging or damage from the AR-10.
I believe that unless something is wrong with the press, and I don't know what that could be, the sizing die is bad. I think the shoulder is at or near max depth and can't go any deeper.
Does that sound logical?
Omega
Well-Known Member
Ok, not sure if it's how you are describing it, or my understanding of it but here is how you should do it.
With the die just a couple threads in and the decapping pin loose but not free, raise the ram all the way up, then screw the die in until it touches the shell holder. Lower the ram and screw the die in about a 1/4 to 3/8 of a turn and lock it in with the die ring hand tight. Place a lubed case in the shell holder and raise the ram all the way up, if the pin raises when it's about halfway down then tighten it a bit. If it doesn't, once at the bottom of the stroke (check that the die touched the shell holder) loosen the pin and manually push the pin all the way down and tighten it down. If the case still doesn't pass the gauge then I would say there is something wrong with the die.
You could have a die that's at max tolerance and a gauge at minimum. I'm not a fan of the case gauge and will let my rifles be the gauge. I'm also not loading for 2 different guns. But case gauges are designed so when you out ammo in there, that ammo will work in anything in that chamber. It's very possible that some of the brass needs ran thru a small base die to fit in that gauge. Just because it doesn't fit the gauge doesn't mean it won't work.
That's my guess.
I just ran through 5 Hornady cases that a got from a forum member. They are once fired through a bolt gun. Same thing. 1 hit about .050 proud on the gauge, 10 hits about .020, 20 hits flush if I push hard. So I guess it could be something with the press, but I have no idea what it could be. The press is bottoming out and the pin is not an issue.
I'm giving up on this for now and going to try some .223. That should at least tell me if something is up with the press.
mr.big
Well-Known Member
I would use the rifle as a gauge, if the brass works in the gun and you try and size the cases more to match the gauge it could cause an excessive head space situation
When you raise the ram, with case in the shell holder, does the shell holder bottom out on the die face on a full stroke?
And these cases don't chamber in either of your rifles either right? After sizing that is.
