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Looks like time for NR to start using their PP's...

The wilderness rule was established to drive hunters to use guides. Perfectly okay for NR to hike & fish in wilderness areas but not hunt.

With 14 PP's & being 68 years old I'm in too deep to back off, but my next three hunts ( elk, deer & antelope) there will definitely by diy. I have an enclosed trailer that I'm going to convert this summer into a mobile hunting shack just to use in WY with grandsons.

Mega is spot on about what tag costs will evolve into. In fact a "special" elk tag in WY is already over a grand.
 
trap55555 said:
A big beef I have with WY is their Wilderness rule toward NRs. Pretty clear to me that this rule is from the guide/guide lobby within the state.

Let's assume that they are responsible (lobbied for) for the Wilderness rule toward NR's. It would seem to me that the purpose of the rule was to drive more NRs their way for business. Now the state is going in the direction to reduce NR tags. So my question is: Are the guide/guide lobby against the trend of less tags for NRs? I don't know the answer to this.... but I haven't spend any time looking for answer I admit.
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The WY wilderness rule is backed up with claims of having to rescue NR hunters, believe it or not...I tend not to believe it.

Wanna hear some craziness for guide welfare? Look at what MT did last year. I you were a NR hunter that booked through a guide in 2021 and didn't draw your deer or elk tag, you could then go ahead and purchase that tag...they issued an additional 2900 extra tags just to outfitted hunters. Thats pure welfare at the expense of the states wildlife.

MT guide association has been lobbying hard lately too, they are no longer hiding it. They are lobbying for less NR DIY tags and more guide tags.

Other states, like NM and NV, both have separate guide draws. Sadly, we are headed in the wrong direction when it comes to wildlife management in this country. Its all about money.
 
TnKen said:
I'm curious what will happen with their budgets. My thinking is if now you are selling the same amount of tags, but for far less money they will feel it.
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Ive read that they will loose about $200,000 from this, which could easily be made up by increasing resident fees by $1 (Total resident hunting license, tags, permits and stamps: 256,326).

Wyoming receives approximately 48% of its total revenue from NR's. Im not smart enough to figure out what a total re-allocation of 90/10 for all tags would be but most other Western states seem to handle it. Actually, WY used to be the most NR friendly. With such a low total state population (more antelope than residents) I suppose it was very acceptable to give away so many NR tags.
 
AT Hiker said:
Ive read that they will loose about $200,000 from this, which could easily be made up by increasing resident fees by $1 (Total resident hunting license, tags, permits and stamps: 256,326).

Wyoming receives approximately 48% of its total revenue from NR's. Im not smart enough to figure out what a total re-allocation of 90/10 for all tags would be but most other Western states seem to handle it. Actually, WY used to be the most NR friendly. With such a low total state population (more antelope than residents) I suppose it was very acceptable to give away so many NR tags.
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I think your formula is based on current non resident tags, not on the reduced tags that will be available. Howeve, I agree they will probably make their money back with an increase in tag fees. Sometimes reduced availability increases demand, which may negate the reduced tags available and support the increased price.
 
tellico4x4 said:
The wilderness rule was established to drive hunters to use guides. Perfectly okay for NR to hike & fish in wilderness areas but not hunt.
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Huge "discussion" about this on RMEF's fb page. A few outfitters are surrounded and fighting hard, but really can't justify the position when other western states have wilderness/roadless and don't require the same thing.
Of course it is for our safety.
 
LanceS4803 said:
Huge "discussion" about this on RMEF's fb page. A few outfitters are surrounded and fighting hard, but really can't justify the position when other western states have wilderness/roadless and don't require the same thing.
Of course it is for our safety.
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I call "cow excrement" on the "SAFETY" precaution. No problem with you hiking, fishing, hunting small game, bird hunting, camping, mountain climbing, horse back riding,.... as far as you want to go into the wilderness area for as almost long as you want to stay (14 day limit I think).

It was and is there because the outfitters lobbied (paid) for it. I don't think anyone could convince otherwise.
 
trap55555 said:
I call "cow excrement" on the "SAFETY" precaution. No problem with you hiking, fishing, hunting small game, bird hunting, camping, mountain climbing, horse back riding,.... as far as you want to go into the wilderness area for as almost long as you want to stay (14 day limit I think).

It was and is there because the outfitters lobbied (paid) for it. I don't think anyone could convince otherwise.
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To be fair, we should acknowledge that a resident can get a permit to "guide" a NR in the wilderness area.
 
My game plan is to for sure be a legit WY resident. Id Just like to draw a premo deer or elk tag before then.
As a resident I wouldn't mutter a fowl word to get my hands on a OTC General deer and elk tag every fall.
 
AT Hiker said:
To be fair, we should acknowledge that a resident can get a permit to "guide" a NR in the wilderness area.
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Very true, I would venture to guess this is was put there so residents could invite NR family members to come and hunt with them. At that, they can only "take" 2 people per year. I would bet this 2 person limit was NOT ask for by the Wyoming resident who wanted the ability take his NR brothers, sisters parents, children, grandchildren, nephews and nieces, work associates, maybe a customer. I could imagine the "2" number was a compromise during the writing of this law.

Resident "Guides" will need a license from the "WY Board of Outfitters and Professional Guides", to collect the first nickel of gratuity or compensation.

Sorry to go off on this subject, this is not normal for me, but it just gets under my skin a bit. If reason for the rule/law coming out of WY was the truth, I could accept it and move on a little easier.
 
TnKen said:
I read the comments and some of the brought up what I always thought about Federal land. Why do the states dictate how much I pay to hunt lands I'm taxed on. The residents and I pay the same federal tax rate and we should have equal access to the federal land we pay for.
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Tennessee charges more for nonresidents than residents as well. And let's not act like we're all paying a ton for federal lands. The budget for federal lands is less than 1% of the annual budget. You're paying about $2 a year. It's the same in EVERY state. Doesn't matter who owns the land, the animals are managed first and foremost, for the residents of that state. Hunting is a privilege out of state, not a right.
 
tellico4x4 said:
Do your points roll over from NR to R?
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Yes, but let's not kid ourselves here. I lived in UT for almost 6 years before moving up here to Idaho. The good LE tags in UT are inching closer to 30pts for residents, an average LE tag is closer to 20, unless you get lucky in the random pass. Once you draw in UT you have a 5 year waiting period before you can start building points for that species again. Literally once in a lifetime tags.
 
AT Hiker said:
Ive read that they will loose about $200,000 from this, which could easily be made up by increasing resident fees by $1 (Total resident hunting license, tags, permits and stamps: 256,326).

Wyoming receives approximately 48% of its total revenue from NR's. Im not smart enough to figure out what a total re-allocation of 90/10 for all tags would be but most other Western states seem to handle it. Actually, WY used to be the most NR friendly. With such a low total state population (more antelope than residents) I suppose it was very acceptable to give away so many NR tags.
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What everyone misses is this. If they pass 90/10 for elk on LE licenses, then those will roll over into the general hunts and there'll be more tags for NR in the general draw. Elk and deer 90/10 haven't gone that way yet, but it's possible. MT is long gone. MOGA runs that state. Letting NR who book with a guide buy 2 PP at time of application just puts them at the front of the line and the DIY guys are SOL. My cousin drew an elk tag in MT this year, I'll be taking him out on his first elk hunt. I get as much excitement out of that as having the tag myself. All in he was around $1100 by the time all was said and done. If he had done deer/elk combo it would have been closer to $1400. WY is already well over a grand in the special draw, which these days doesn't guarantee you any better of a chance you just spend twice as much. ID controlled hunts don't require points, you just have to front the hunting and fishing license up front to apply, just like NV. ID OTC tags that go on sale on Dec 1st are just a cluster at the moment. Tags you used to be able to buy OTC in August now sell out on Dec 1st in less than 5 minutes. Guys think that cutting NR tag numbers will hurt fish and game departments, not hardly. For every one that drops out there's 10 to take his place. Limited supply with an increased demand.
 
sneakybow said:
What everyone misses is this. If they pass 90/10 for elk on LE licenses, then those will roll over into the general hunts and there'll be more tags for NR in the general draw. Elk and deer 90/10 haven't gone that way yet, but it's possible. MT is long gone. MOGA runs that state. Letting NR who book with a guide buy 2 PP at time of application just puts them at the front of the line and the DIY guys are SOL. My cousin drew an elk tag in MT this year, I'll be taking him out on his first elk hunt. I get as much excitement out of that as having the tag myself. All in he was around $1100 by the time all was said and done. If he had done deer/elk combo it would have been closer to $1400. WY is already well over a grand in the special draw, which these days doesn't guarantee you any better of a chance you just spend twice as much. ID controlled hunts don't require points, you just have to front the hunting and fishing license up front to apply, just like NV. ID OTC tags that go on sale on Dec 1st are just a cluster at the moment. Tags you used to be able to buy OTC in August now sell out on Dec 1st in less than 5 minutes. Guys think that cutting NR tag numbers will hurt fish and game departments, not hardly. For every one that drops out there's 10 to take his place. Limited supply with an increased demand.
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Yep, hunted ID several times when you could buy OTC tags late in the game. It was always my fallback if I didn't draw in other states . Them days are gone for sure...
 
sneakybow said:
Yes, but let's not kid ourselves here. I lived in UT for almost 6 years before moving up here to Idaho. The good LE tags in UT are inching closer to 30pts for residents, an average LE tag is closer to 20, unless you get lucky in the random pass. Once you draw in UT you have a 5 year waiting period before you can start building points for that species again. Literally once in a lifetime tags.
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I'm on the 5 year (4 year now) wait for elk, after taking mine in 2020. But realistically, it IS a OIL tag for LE elk. Especially for a NR.
 
LanceS4803 said:
I'm on the 5 year (4 year now) wait for elk, after taking mine in 2020. But realistically, it IS a OIL tag for LE elk. Especially for a NR.
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Unless I draw a tag in the random pass I'm still a long ways out from a LE elk tag. 8pts after this draw. Even if I were still a resident I'd be up against it lol. OTC tags here in Idaho takes away that sting though.
 
tellico4x4 said:
blog.eastmans.com

Guy’s TOP 5 Picks for Wyoming Mule Deer 2022 - Eastmans' Official Blog | Mule Deer, Antelope, Elk Hunting and Bowhunting Magazine | Eastmans' Hunting Journals

Based purely on the data and uncertainty going into this year’s Wyoming mule deer draw this list sho
blog.eastmans.com blog.eastmans.com
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I just breathed a big sigh of relief. I didn't see the unit I was looking at on Guy's list. I see a big point leap in some of these units as guys like me start thinking on bailing.
 

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