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Muzzleloading Heritage Season

Rancocas said:
You sound "disturbed." Take a deep breath.
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You sound like you are in denial because sidelocks capable of clean ethical 200yd kills have been around for well over 100 years. They even compete very well in matches like the Creedmore 150 that is just getting put together. My source of ignition just isnt on the side. Its inline, obviously. I can shoot the same loads from a ballistic standpoint. No deer/elk/bison/bear/ect that ever walked this earth is ever gunna be able to tell the difference. My deer load for the last 5ish years has been a 45cal 350gr pure lead conical and 70gr of powder. I shoot upto a 488gr with 80gr sometimes too.

The only difference is the lack of funds in my wallet to put togther a custom 45cal 1-18 or 1-20 sidelock. So tell me if im shooting the same bullet at the same speed, how is that not the same? Oh yeah i didnt need to play dress up or scrub my barrel in a bucket of soapy water. I cant say the deer will ever know the difference how i cleaned it. Only you "traditionalist" seem to take up any issue with how i ignite my powder and what methods should be legal.

Thats why many people like you need a forum where you cant even mention an inline. Cant say i ever saw a modern ML forum that did the same thing.
 
GMB54 said:
You sound like you are in denial because sidelocks capable of clean ethical 200yd kills have been around for well over 100 years. They even compete very well in matches like the Creedmore 150 that is just getting put together. My source of ignition just isnt on the side. Its inline, obviously. I can shoot the same loads from a ballistic standpoint. No deer/elk/bison/bear/ect that ever walked this earth is ever gunna be able to tell the difference. My deer load for the last 5ish years has been a 45cal 350gr pure lead conical and 70gr of powder. I shoot upto a 488gr with 80gr sometimes too.

The only difference is the lack of funds in my wallet to put togther a custom 45cal 1-18 or 1-20 sidelock. So tell me if im shooting the same bullet at the same speed, how is that not the same? Oh yeah i didnt need to play dress up or scrub my barrel in a bucket of soapy water. I cant say the deer will ever know the difference how i cleaned it. Only you "traditionalist" seem to take up any issue with how i ignite my powder and what methods should be legal.

Thats why many people like you need a forum where you cant even mention an inline. Cant say i ever saw a modern ML forum that did the same thing.
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I see your point, I have used in lines with sabots and scopes, shot sabots from side hammer percussion muzzle loaders, Parker productions in Idaho makes some fine products, i have killed many deer with a Remington 700 that I have had for over 40 years. If you have never experienced the feeling of carrying flint lock with shooting bag and accoutrements and pursuing your game animals of choice, you should give it a try. I thought it was all the same too at once but like Sam I am ! I refused to try the Green Eggs and Ham! For some of us it's just different and yes we are so few in number in today's do it faster, further, easier and better world we are seen as snobs. Don't knock it till you try it please. If the Last of the Mohican's sound track doesn't make you happy, and the Patriot doesn't make you smile, then keep doing what you are doing, it works for you.
 
Well GMB54; you just don't get it. I suspect you never will.

You keep harping about long range capabilities. Of course some traditional side lock muzzleloaders are capable of accurate long range shooting. Some were especially designed for the 1000 yard target matches at Creedmore in England. Some, such as the Whitworth Rifle, were used as sniper rifles during the American War Between The States.
One of the most famous riflemen of the American Revolution was Timothy Murphy. He was a member of Daniel Morgan's Riflemen and during the Battle of Saratoga in 1777 he is credited with making a fantastic 300 yard shot that knocked British Brigadier General Simon Fraser off his horse. The high tech firearm of those days was, of course, the flintlock.

But, all that has nothing whatsoever to do with this traditional vs in-line use issue during muzzleloader hunting seasons.

Anyway, we are obviously on opposite ends of the issue. I've stated my piece as best I can, and I see no point in continuing with this thread. It is not important. There are many other current issues affecting our nation that we need to be concerned about.
 
Rancocas said:
Well GMB54; you just don't get it. I suspect you never will.
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I get it all too well. Some people think they have a right to the woods to themselves and like minded hunters based on how powder is ignited. Those people and special interest groups lobby for a privilege that goes beyond what the rest of us get. In my state i get 1 antlered deer tag for both the firearms and the "alternative" season. I can take 1 antlerless too. Its the same tag.

We can however apply for managed hunts in conservation areas. Some of them have more primitive restrictions. I call it micro management vs a state wide "primitive" season. Everyone has a chance to get what they want this way. Our managed hunt tags are mostly before firearms season and the tag dont count against my regular deer tag. We have LOTS of these lottery type hunts all over the state and lots of them have very high success rates.

Thanks to the archery lobby there is virtually no chance of a state wide primitive season before firearms season. Not even a 3 day weekend hunt. The archers would have a fit even though they get more tags and far more time to hunt than firearms does.

So yeah i get it far too well how some feel they need or deserve a privileged hunt to keep others out of the woods while they hunt the way they want to hunt. As a mostly inline hunter that hunts mostly during the firearms season, i simply call it selfish.
 
GMB54 said:
I get it all too well. Some people think they have a right to the woods to themselves and like minded hunters based on how powder is ignited. Those people and special interest groups lobby for a privilege that goes beyond what the rest of us get. In my state i get 1 antlered deer tag for both the firearms and the "alternative" season. I can take 1 antlerless too. Its the same tag.

We can however apply for managed hunts in conservation areas. Some of them have more primitive restrictions. I call it micro management vs a state wide "primitive" season. Everyone has a chance to get what they want this way. Our managed hunt tags are mostly before firearms season and the tag dont count against my regular deer tag. We have LOTS of these lottery type hunts all over the state and lots of them have very high success rates.

Thanks to the archery lobby there is virtually no chance of a state wide primitive season before firearms season. Not even a 3 day weekend hunt. The archers would have a fit even though they get more tags and far more time to hunt than firearms does.

So yeah i get it far too well how some feel they need or deserve a privileged hunt to keep others out of the woods while they hunt the way they want to hunt. As a mostly inline hunter that hunts mostly during the firearms season, i simply call it selfish.
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Years ago in TN, there was a non quota Women only hunt on Natchez Trace WMA. There were plenty of of quota hunts that required being drawn. In the 80's the hunt ended because of the complaints of a couple of men saying that they were being discriminated against. There was no more than a small handful of women that participated. I guess those guys were right in their argument, but dang I always figured they were very wrong. Kinda like people that complain about juvenile only hunts.
 
Our managed hunts pretty much cover all the bases. From youth to bow to disabled hunts. There are even some for firearms and first time hunters that never checked in a deer before. Each conservation area sets its bag limit and hunter quota. I apply for one the most popular muzzleloader managed hunts because of the limited tags available and the point you get if you dont get drawn. Cant say i remember a womens only hunt but its possible we had/have one. That area actually offers 2-3 hunts for MLs. One only for first time ML hunters iirc.

While none of this is perfect i think micro management is more fair. Everyone gets that chance for the hunt they want and you can still hunt the regular seasons without some retarded pencil pushing politician telling me i cant ignite my powder inline if i want to hunt.

I still have not gotten the answer how my load of a 350gr pure lead conical at 1300-1400fps is any different being shot from my inline than a sidelock. I can do it with a 209, #11 or musket cap. Pretty simple to swap out the parts on a Knight to make it legal for those restrictions. My scope can come off and a peep put on in minutes.

Exactly what advantage am i getting that excludes me and similar hunters?
 
Everybody needs to feel special and recognized these days. You can legally hunt with any muzzleloader you choose for 2 whole months! Maybe we should have a week of recurve, week of compound, week of crossgun, week of traditional muzzleloader, week of inline, week of smokeless muzzleloader, week of handgun, week of rifle with open sights, week of scoped rifle, etc. etc. etc. Let's just kill deer and enjoy the outdoors.
 
LOL, they combined handgun and atlatl with our ML season. Then changed the name to "alternative season". So now you can take a hand rifle like a 7mm-08 Encore pistol and feel special too. :D Maybe just chuck a spear if you want to be a real manly man. Its perfectly legal here.

Didnt really bother me much since i usually tag out before our late "muzzleloader season" anyway.

Oh and you left out BPCR season too. Cant leave those guys out. They got some sweet guns.
 
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That would be sweet to have a primitive season like that. Many of us hunters that have and use both modern in lines and more traditional/primitive style of guns understand the special feeling you get when holding things from an era long ago past. How it stirs things inside you can't explain. An unexplainable sense of accomplishment to kill an animal with such an outdated weapon. Who knows maybe such a season would recruit more hunters especially young ones for the future to hunting to remain positive. There are those of us who understand a season such as this is not about "me" having extra time but is part of a greater plan. Many never have nor will have that warm fuzzy feeling in the inside from using something created by their fellow man by hand whether it's 200 years old or a week. I hope that part of my soul never dies as it has in others. As for me I hunt with old and new alike.

As I hunt with both modern and primitive I can't call myself a traditionalist but know a few and fully understand the attraction.
 
No one is preventing you from using a more primitive method during ANY season are they? Yet you think its great they want to prevent others using a less primitive method.

Is there a reason you cant enjoy your hunt while some guy shooting an inline is enjoying his at the same time? Can you only get that "warm fuzzy feeling" when only others with sidelocks/flintlocks are allowed to hunt also?

Still no answer to my question. You guys dodge that pretty well dont you?
 
This is getting ridiculous.
His question apparently is about a 350 grain conical bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1300 fps or more.
How is it different?
Well, for one thing, I don't use a conical bullet. I use patched round balls and real black powder. I'm not a ballistician and don't give a hoot n holler about ballistics. If my round ball can pass through a 2x6 at such and such a range, then I know it can kill a deer at that same range. Quite scientific, huh?

Folks, this guy (I assume its a guy) doesn't have a clue. He thinks he knows it all, but he really does not have a clue as to what traditional muzzle loading is all about. He is so full of hate for traditionalists that his mind is closed. I wonder when he will reach puberty, if ever?

If one continues to argue with a fool; who is the bigger fool?

I'm done.
 
GMB54 did an excellent job of hijacking this thread (mine) and turning it into a tirade of his hatred of anyone who enjoys traditional muzzle loading. He seems to do his best work behind the keyboard. Being in Misery....Missouri, that is, I wonder why he's interested in posting on a forum in Tennessee. He's on numerous forums and frankly as much as he posts I don't see how he has time to shoot his 350 grain bullets at 1300 fps. I guess he likes to lurk around at any chance to Troll.

Rancocas, I don't know if you know this or not but if you hover on a screen name there is a ignore button. Now excuse me I have some ignoring to do.
 
Come on guys, you post up pics of flintlocks in inline topics all the time. Hey try this if you cant find 209s...Rocks are free blah blah blah blah blah.

So you guys cant tell me why my really simple load using a pretty primitive method is any different. I didnt think you would either. You guys have a fit when asked a simple question. You use whatever you can pull out of your hat to justify a reason. When the real reason is simple greed. You refuse to share a state resource at the same time and want your own season to feel special about the way you wanna hunt.

Im 60yrs old btw and my first rifle was a T/C Hawkins around 1980 or 1981. I have hunted nearly every one of the years since with a ML and never cared about a special season for just the way i wanna hunt. Not once. Thats all some of you guys.
 
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I'm the Guy that posted the flintlock pic as an alternative means of ignition…

Some of the younger members here may have never seen a side lock muzzleloader much less a flintlock..

And yes rocks are free which means these guns will still be firing if there's ever a cap shortage..
Surely that couldn't happen. Could it?

As too the load you keep asking about the difference is the choice of ignition… plain and simple.
It has nothing too do with powder , bullets or primers as we all know.

As Wobblyshot mentioned above, there is an ignore button on this Forum .
So if you don't like seeing my post or comments I suggest you hover over my name and follow the bouncing ball….
 

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