Natural mortality rates

[LenS]

I killed a 9 point that I had photos of. I was shocked at how much weight he had lost in just a couple of weeks. He also had 4 different puncture marks from fighting that I had noticed. The last 6 weeks had definitely been tough on him!

 

[casjoker]

I don't study deer enough in East TN and the size difference between TN deer and the ones I hunt in Maine and Indiana makes it hard for me to judge the ages on the hoof. I know myself and hunting buddies have shot deer in Maine (big woods northern Maine) and farmland central Indiana that was (3 total) 6.5 2 in Maine, (2 total) 7.5 one in Maine, and one 13.5 Maine. The biologist said we did him a favor there was no way he would have made it through the winter, hardly had any teeth left. All the Maine deer weighed over 210lbs with two in the 220 range field dressed. The deer in IN dressed between 180-205 LBS.

The rest, twenty plus were 4.5 and under. All deer 6 points or bigger in ME and IN were aged by state biologists. I have only had two aged in TN. One was a huge body 6 pointer (167lbs) I shot in Knoxville and a nice 8 killed in the same area. 6pt was 5.5 and the 8 was 4.5, On the 8 I don't have the weight recorded for some reason. They were taken in an area that hadn't been hunted for 3-4 years and was 2 of 5 big-bodied/racked deer I had on trail cams. The area in Knoxville was opened up to three other hunters the following year. I have never seen anything bigger than small basket 6's since and stopped hunting the property about 3 years ago.

I bet some of those mountain deer are living well past 4.5 years and have hardly seen much for people or hunting pressure, same with big woods Maine. The farm belt in Indiana is just easy living and grows them plenty and quickly.

Not sure if any of the above is super relevant but I like this topic.

 

[megalomaniac]

Not scientific at all... just years of observations.

Virtually all 2.5yos make it to 3.5 if they aren't shot. 3/5 3.5yos make it to 4.5. 2/5 4.5yos show back up at 5.5. 1/5 5.5yos show back up at 6.5.

Not scientific, but it's a pretty decent sample size for middle TN

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

This is a fascinating read. We are definitely finding needles in a haystack when we do kill one 4.5 or older.

 

[Andy S.]

They definitely seem to disappear from something other than hunting the older they get

Amen!

 

[Andy S.]

..................2/5 4.5yos show back up at 5.5. 1/5 5.5yos show back up at 6.5.

Anecdotally, I seen this phenomena for years at Ames. Due to this, I tell hunters to truly give that 4.5 buck some thought if he/she REALLY wants to shoot him, especially if they are hunting smaller acreage farms. In the mostly hardwoods environment I typically hunt in SW TN, there is a good chance a hunter will never see him again after 4.5, even if he lives to be 6.5 on the landscape. I'm not advocating shooting all 4.5s, just that they truly do seem to disappear after that magical 4.5 year old season. Not all, but most are never seen again by me, my buds, or our trail cameras.

 

[jaybird62]

After watching deer on my farm since 2013 I have learned that any buck with the characteristics of a 3 1/2-year-old that's not a "resident" (showed up on camera previous couple of months) will never be seen twice. I find a couple of 2 1/2- to 3 1/2-year-old familiar deadhead bucks the past three years that lived through the season but died before I start shed hunting in early March. Food quality is high and available, so mortality is something else. Four out of five deadheads found are bucks:does over the past eight years. I have noticed that I don't find yearling buck deadheads like I did the first couple of years.

 

[JN]

This has been a great read and very informative. I have always wondered what happened to a few bucks that I know made it through the season but then just disappeared.

 

[Cheshire]

I'm sure someone on here has seen a study on the natural mortality rate of bucks. If you have a link can you please post it or if you'd like to discuss it let's hear it. I would expect each property to be different. I have one small farm we hunt that it seems very hard to get them to live above 3.5. We can pass them up and just watch them but we lose a lot of 3 year olds on that farm after the season is over. I found every possible shooter deer going into this season dead shed hunting. There may have been some foul play but there is no way to tell; I honestly think they died from infections late winter. The 3 year olds seem to be the hardest on their bodies during the rut so it makes sense in my head that they would have a higher mortality rate.

Very interesting thread

 

[wobblegobble]

I've seen bucks make it to 8 1/2 in farm country. I've never seen a buck make it past 6 1/2 in ridge-and-hollow hardwoods.

I had a 7.5 year this year in the mountains and killed a 6.5 last season in the same location...I found a dead 7 year old two years ago...I will have at least three 6 year olds this year.

 

[BSK]

I had a 7.5 year this year in the mountains and killed a 6.5 last season in the same location...I found a dead 7 year old two years ago...I will have at least three 6 year olds this year.

I finally got my first 7 1/2 year-old on camera this year. And that's after literally millions of trail-cam pics taken in ridge-and-hollow hardwoods.

 

[wobblegobble]

I finally got my first 7 1/2 year-old on camera this year. And that's after literally millions of trail-cam pics taken in ridge-and-hollow hardwoods.

I have a lot of older deer due most in our area are Trophy hunters. However, many are the genetically weak deer due to trophy hunters lol

 

[mike243]

Shot a buck that had a puncher wound through the throat that came out between its shoulder blades had to be 12" and was infected, always wondered if the 300wm hadn't killed it if the infection would have

 

[BSK]

I have a lot of older deer due most in our area are Trophy hunters. However, many are the genetically weak deer due to trophy hunters lol

I work on properties that are thousands and thousands of acres under "mature buck only" management. More bucks are dying of old age on these properties than by hunters. Getting bucks to 5 1/2, no problem. Yet still, only a few bucks making it to 6 1/2 and none making it to 7 1/2.

 

[TNTreeman]

I passed on a great 14 pt deer twice opening day ( rifle) a couple yrs ago. I was after another deer and at that time was only allowed 1. Saw it again the day after Christmas and shot it bc it could barely walk. It was missing about 3 inches of its back leg from the hoof and jaw was broken. Infection had set in and I couldn't even eat it. Zero meat along backbone and hams. This same deer looked great in mid November . Taxidermist aged it at 6.5. Still not totally sure what happened to the old guy.

 

[arkwaterfowler]

This is a great read. I hunt farm country in Montgomery county and was under the impression that if I let a 3.5 year old walk I would have a good shot at him later. Even in farm country I think a lot of bucks move or die before 4.5. i Hunt this 550 acre property alone and out of the hundreds of bucks seen in the last 15 seasons, me and the girls have only killed four 4.5 year old bucks. The two killed early in muzzleloader weighed 190 dressed. The two killed in rifle weighed about 155 dressed. Literally three weeks of rutting lost that weight.

 

[BSK]

...me and the girls have only killed four 4.5 year old bucks. The two killed early in muzzleloader weighed 190 dressed. The two killed in rifle weighed about 155 dressed. Literally three weeks of rutting lost that weight.

In the 6 weeks of primary rutting, it's not uncommon for older bucks to lose 30% of their body weight. That doesn't sound that dramatic until you realize that's a buck live-weighing 200 lbs at the beginning of the rut only weighing 160 lbs six weeks later. That's a HUGE difference.

The below pictured buck is a stud mature buck I had on my place in 2017. Knowing the deer in the area, I believe he weighed at least 220 lbs on the hoof when the picture was taken in mid-October. I ended up killing him at the very end of the season, on Dec. 31, very post-rut. He only live-weighed 175 pounds by then.

 

[peytoncreekhunter]

I wonder how much difference it makes on age when it's a high fence operation and death by vehicles is taken out of the equation? Is it a negligible difference in the age of the bucks/deer may live to?

 

[BSK]

I wonder how much difference it makes on age when it's a high fence operation and death by vehicles is taken out of the equation? Is it a negligible difference in the age of the bucks/deer may live to?

Negligible? No. I've worked in high-fences in hillier terrain and their age structure is a bit older. I don't think it's cars. I think it's lack of free-ranging dogs, and lower coyote populations.

However, the biggest problem inside high-fences is the mortality of bucks due to fighting. Unfenced, bucks can just leave the area under intense social pressure. Inside the fence, they fight to the death. I've seen shockingly high fighting mortality inside high-fences.

 

[peytoncreekhunter]

Negligible? No. I've worked in high-fences in hillier terrain and their age structure is a bit older. I don't think it's cars. I think it's lack of free-ranging dogs, and lower coyote populations.

However, the biggest problem inside high-fences is the mortality of bucks do to fighting. Unfenced, bucks can just leave the area under intense social pressure. Inside the fence, they fight to the death. I've seen shockingly high fighting mortality inside high-fences.

Thanks for answering. Looks like nature picks up where automobiles are taken out of the equation.

Makes since though, when you have a bunch of boys in a confined space competing for the ladies, push is going to come to shove....and even worse!