Not ready to sound the alarm, buuut...

[catman529]

I dare someone to post a pic of bearded hen they've killed this spring. I normally don't attack individual kills but I'll come in guns blazing. My suggestion with the current population decline lay off the ladies

I don't care to kill one in the spring but I will kill one in the fall if given the chance. And I will only fall hunt where the population is healthy. Just be glad they at least cut the limit back to 1 bird in the fall


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[knightrider]

I dare someone to post a pic of bearded hen they've killed this spring. I normally don't attack individual kills but I'll come in guns blazing. My suggestion with the current population decline lay off the ladies

ive let 3 go by me this year but I promise just for you ,I will try my dangest to kill one and post a pic to give you something else to b#$% about

 

[Spurhunter]

I wonder how much the huge cutovers in Hickman, Perry, and Lewis counties have to do with fewer birds. I know places turkeys would have to walk forever just to find a roost tree much less some acorns. I have heard they like cutover buy I think the large expanses of cutover Hughes lumber company created when they bought out Willamette was ridiculous. Willamette would clear cut but they checker boarded most of theirs which made for good hunting habitat. Makes me sad to see some of the places I used to hunt that were nice hardwoods when you could hunt them with a 37.00 permit. I cant believe the state allowed what happened to happen.

I hate clear cuts. It is raping the land, pure and simple. I agree with everything you said up to the last line. What does "the state" have to do with it? It's private property. They own it. They should do with it whatever they want. When we start asking the government to tell people what they can or can't do with their private property we are creating a slippery slope.

 

[muddyboots]

The clear cuts don't hurt em. If they did there wouldn't be any where I hunt. The hens love it for nesting after regrowth.

 

[Spurhunter]

I don't disagree with you about the private property part but the timber companies made up large portions of the state and were some what regulated by agencies such as the Forrest Service and the EPA. I always heard that there was a rule where these large companies could only cut to a certain distance from creeks for example. I wont say I know it for fact though because I have never actually read it. I also always heard that Willamette had an agreement where they would not clear cut anything they owned over 40 acres but would checker board it. The only reason I agree with some regulation in the timber industry is because it affects us all to a large degree. Air quality, water quality and affects it has on wild game are some examples. There are places on the Tennessee River where we could drop a sauger jig in 40 feet of water and when it hit bottom it felt like you had dropped it on concrete. A lot of those places don't exist any more and are close to some of the large cutovers I am talking about. I have no idea if it helps or hurts tukeys though. It should at least be good nesting habitat. I agree though with your last post. I don't like too much government interference either. I promise you, I aint no Al Gore.

Sounds like we have similar feelings on the subject. On one hand you want all the benefits of the trees. On the other hand, you don't want the govt to have even more control over private property. It is definitely a tough call.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Regarding clearcuts, I've had no less than 700 additional acres around me in the last 4 or so years. I have turkeys out the ying yang. I've also done a ton of habitat work but no doubt, removing nearly all the mast and roost has made my farm the promised land for turkeys.

For those citing clearcuts = fewer turkeys...yeah...that's what I've experienced (except that I've been the benefactor).

 

[Atchman2]

Regarding clearcuts, I've had no less than 700 additional acres around me in the last 4 or so years. I have turkeys out the ying yang. I've also done a ton of habitat work but no doubt, removing nearly all the mast and roost has made my farm the promised land for turkeys.

For those citing clearcuts = fewer turkeys...yeah...that's what I've experienced (except that I've been the benefactor).

I think any kind of building or new structure will move the turkeys away. I used to hunt a farm that had a new cell phone tower installed. Not as single turkey on that farm next year. They installed it right during turkey season when they were all close together.

So they moved to the other side of the interstate. THEN they built a factory over there. What was left of the birds were gone. Four years later I'm just starting to see them again. I'm guessing the noise and confusion of clear cuts is what causes them to move. They just don't like being disrupted is my opinion.

This is all opinion based on a couple of scenarios. I do not have any facts, just a couple of anecdotes.

 

[Powerstroke]

All I know is , on all the farms I have to hunt in east Tenn. I am 0-5 for trips out. My turkeys sightings are probably 80% less this year than in the past . I have never been going into the 3rd week of the season and have only heard one Tom Gobble 4 times and he was done . All my spots have dried up and dried up fast ..

 

[drrxnupe]

I've been out 6 times this year and called in hens on every trip. I agree that the hen killing should be reduced if not eliminated, but strangely that's all I've seen this year.

 

[Bgoodman30]

Regarding clearcuts, I've had no less than 700 additional acres around me in the last 4 or so years. I have turkeys out the ying yang. I've also done a ton of habitat work but no doubt, removing nearly all the mast and roost has made my farm the promised land for turkeys.

For those citing clearcuts = fewer turkeys...yeah...that's what I've experienced (except that I've been the benefactor).

I think any kind of building or new structure will move the turkeys away. I used to hunt a farm that had a new cell phone tower installed. Not as single turkey on that farm next year. They installed it right during turkey season when they were all close together.

So they moved to the other side of the interstate. THEN they built a factory over there. What was left of the birds were gone. Four years later I'm just starting to see them again. I'm guessing the noise and confusion of clear cuts is what causes them to move. They just don't like being disrupted is my opinion.

This is all opinion based on a couple of scenarios. I do not have any facts, just a couple of anecdotes.

Yep turkeys don't like a lot of messing with.. Landowner ran ours right off our lease with his dozer....


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[woodsman04]

I think that clear cuts are good for turkeys in a way, but also bad. Takes away roost and mast trees, but also opens up areas for them to strut and get bugs under the rotting bark and such. A fresh clear cut is about the same as a pasture. A few years after it creates good nesting habitat, but you really can't hunt in there.

The best are clear cuts that still borders big timber, but my favorite is thinned and select cuts, just rotating through several years of what they do. Huge expanses of clear cuts are no better, or worse, than huge expanses of mature timber. Turkeys need a variety of habitats. Nesting cover/brood rearing cover in spring and summer, and hardwoods with good mast in the fall and winter.

I do not think the cancellation of fall season will have much of an impact, but, as spur hunter noted, that's a lot of hens that could have raised broods, with more hens that could have raised, and so on and so on. I enjoy fall turkey hunting myself, but I go for mature gobblers only and I try to scatter a flock and call them back up, not ambush or bushwhack them. Hens bearded or not should be off limits.

I'm also of the thought that jakes should be only killed by youth 16 and under, but I don't know about that. I don't think enough jakes are killed to have an impact, because where I'm from, jakes don't really gobble or anything, and are sometimes the hardest to kill because they don't "play."

The high spring limits could have some help by being lowered because so many people turkey hunt now, and people are so "successful" in killing turkeys now with realistic decoys, fanning, and the way shells, chokes, and guns are no days. A limit of four was probably good when we first went to it, but back then decoys and htl weren't very popular, along with social media and everybody wanting to prove kills with kill pics.

The chicken litter issue doesn't have much weight to me, unless proven otherwise. Properly heat treated litter cannot spread disease. And also, the areas of the country where I believe the most turkeys live, is South Georgia, south Alabama, and. South Mississippi, which are the leaders in the chicken industry, and also Arkansas but I'm not sure of their turkey populations.

Predators and varmints have been around since turkeys have been around, but I do believe that they are bad on them, and I think that there are more predators and nest raiders around. Armidillos are still new to my areas, well new as in ten years, which matches up with decline, as well as wild hogs which have been around 10-12 years.

If you own land, you can help by creating better habitat and maybe trapping. Also by managing your harvest. But weather, what the twra does, and what your neighbors do is completely out of anyone's control.

I firmly believe though that it's all about nesting and brooding success, and if we can ever have a good couple years in a row of good batches, we will see a rebound.


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[woodsman04]

And also, let me state that I know that there is indeed a decline. Surveys, the turkey brood census' they do, harvest data, and our own Hunter observations contribute to it.

But don't let the low harvest numbers so far this year fool you. Two saturdays were abysmal weather in my area, sounds like the east side is middle of January still, and the west side is under water.

Another factor, I know it's easier for the good guys to check in turkeys, but what about the bad guys? It's also easier for them to kill several without telling a soul or reporting it since it's so easy to hide them.

Just more thoughts.


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[Atchman2]

Just like food plots and other things, I think an off season trapping program is the key to turkey numbers. Coyotes, hogs, and coons cant be good for turkey numbers. Ive seen more coyotes this year in East Tennessee than ever before. Raccoons are easy to trap on a property. They love all forms of poultry.

Many times folks are afraid to invite outsiders on their property. Most coyote hunters i know, could care less about your deer or turkeys. The farm where I help the landowner with his hogs, I bow out during deer season so as not to bother the deer hunters.

I just think that the predator populations are way out of whack. We need to encourage trappers and predator hunters. If you have a bad experience with them just kick them out. Ive had landowners call and thank me for reducing the pests on their properry.

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[MickThompson]

Coyotes may actually be your friend if you are managing for turkeys. Sure, they'll get one if given the chance, but they are one of few critters willing to eat an armadillo. They prey on mesomammals aka nest predators too. I'd focus my trapping efforts on the best predators first.


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[poorhunter]

Coyotes may actually be your friend if you are managing for turkeys. Sure, they'll get one if given the chance, but they are one of few critters willing to eat an armadillo. They prey on mesomammals aka nest predators too. I'd focus my trapping efforts on the best predators first.


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Skunks, coons, opossums, snakes, owls and hawks.. Pretty much in that order are the worst. They probably kill well over half the turkey population each year from egg to 6 months old. It's been a long time since I did a study on this, but that's what it was 28 years ago. In the early summer I see about 10% of the hens actually have poults.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Coyotes may actually be your friend if you are managing for turkeys. Sure, they'll get one if given the chance, but they are one of few critters willing to eat an armadillo. They prey on mesomammals aka nest predators too. I'd focus my trapping efforts on the best predators first.


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This right here... You start trapping and killing your small varmints and nest raiders to the point of extinction, you will see your coyote numbers go to nothing as well.

 

[RUGER]

I dare someone to post a pic of bearded hen they've killed this spring. I normally don't attack individual kills but I'll come in guns blazing. My suggestion with the current population decline lay off the ladies

I respect your opinion and admire your passion but I would highly recommend NOBODY "attack" any individual that legally kills any animal and posts about it on this site.
Of course, that is your choice as well though.

 

[RUGER]

Went fishing this morning at a lake where we ALWAYS hear multiple birds gobbling every time we go there in the spring.
Today made the third time I have been there during "gobbling time" and we heard one single bird gobble this morning. That was the first and only one we have heard in 3 trips.
DEFINITELY not seeing / hearing anything near what I normally do around here.

I think the farmers using the stuff they scrape out of the chicken barns (manure, dead chickens etc.) for fertilizer is doing something bad some how or another.
Just too much of a coincidence in my opinion.
Around here the chicken barns started popping up and the turkey population seemed to start going down... .quickly.

Dunno but just seems funny to me.
Dunno if enough people hunt turkey in the fall around here to have an impact but I know killing hens is a sure way to lower the population, or at best keep it from growing.

 

[Spurhunter]

I think the farmers using the stuff they scrape out of the chicken barns (manure, dead chickens etc.) for fertilizer is doing something bad some how or another.
Just too much of a coincidence in my opinion.
Around here the chicken barns started popping up and the turkey population seemed to start going down... .quickly.

I hunted a place several years ago that had plenty birds. We would kill 6 or so longbeards a year. One day I showed up late season and the place smelled terrible. It wasn't until after daylight I figured out what it was. The farmer had spread chicken litter on all the ag fields on the place. The following year we didn't kill a bird and didn't see many. Coincidence? Maybe. The place sold that summer so I don't know about following years.

 

[Bgoodman30]

Same in our bottom. I saw a 150 birds flock last March this year gone...


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