Numbers droping ?

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Boll Weevil said:
Anyone have contact information for the appropriate person (Wild Turkey Program Coordinator) to connect with in West TN?
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It is my understanding that Chris Hunter is the TWRA Turkey Program Coordinator for the entire state. He might be a good place to start if you have questions or concerns.

I saw where Chris posted this on another hunting forum. "Chad Harden (TWRA turkey biologist in West TN) a call. The office number in Jackson, TN is 731-423-5725"

FWIW, I've spoke with Chad and shared email a few times over the years, top notch guy.
 
The last page of the fall turkey hunting report shows a good sign that things look to be going up. Hopefully, that is the case.

The thing that gets me is this: I live on some my hunting land. I am there everyday. I do not understand how biologist say we have a healthy turkey populations, when they all estimate it with suitable habitat. 90% of the turkeys in my county live 15+ miles north of me. It used to not be that way. from 1997-2006 you saw turkeys daily. They have either just completely moved or died off.
No change in habitat or management techniques amongst me or neighbors except maybe a house here or there.

The only changes I know of are these:
1) more liberal fall and spring bag limts.
2) Armidillos are seen almost everyday
3) wild hogs have been around the general areas since about 2007.
4) Feeding wildlife "deer" corn is very popular because of the game camera industry so people can see how big of a buck they are going to kill this year, only to never see him during the day.
5) the popularity of predator hunting. Yes I said it, shooting coyotes can effect in a negative way. Coyotes kill the animals that eat the eggs. Coyotes do eat nesting hens, but that isn't the main problem of them.
6) and rainfall. What I think is the most important factor of all. If I am wrong on this, please correct me. The past several nesting seasons have been way wetter than normal. Rain fall causes hens to produce more oil on their feathers, making them smill stronger for predators or nest getting varmints. Excessive rain fall the first 2 weeks of a poults life kills many, not becuase of drowning, but because of freezing to death. When the eggs get excessive rainfall after rainfall, not only could the flood and go away, but the pours in the eggshells absorb bacteria. This causes eggs to not hatch, or the poults to be very unhealthy when they do hatch.
 
As far as comparing deer to turkey biology, the reasons we kill deer from a control standpoint is to reduce car collisions, reduce crop damage, and keep them from running out of food. Turkeys don't cause car wrecks, and their diet is so diverse they can survive on almost anything. There is no chance of turkeys becoming a nuisance. Once a whitetail deer in TN gets out of spots, he has no natural predators. Everything in the woods wants to eat a turkey. The predadation and survival rates are not even related. Honestly, comparing deer and turkey biology makes about as much sense as comparing turkey biology and great white shark biology.
 
Spurhunter said:
As far as comparing deer to turkey biology, the reasons we kill deer from a control standpoint is to reduce car collisions, reduce crop damage, and keep them from running out of food. Turkeys don't cause car wrecks, and their diet is so diverse they can survive on almost anything. There is no chance of turkeys becoming a nuisance. Once a whitetail deer in TN gets out of spots, he has no natural predators. Everything in the woods wants to eat a turkey. The predadation and survival rates are not even related. Honestly, comparing deer and turkey biology makes about as much sense as comparing turkey biology and great white shark biology.
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Good post about comparing the two, that they are not even comparable!
I wish we had as many turkeys as deer.
 
I got it! Why dont they raise the price of license (especially for out of staters) and lower the all bag limits and we all will be happy!
 
CAMARO12 said:
TWRA used to conduct annual poult to hen ratios per county and publish the results but when was the last time anyone saw those in print??
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I don't know, but I would like to see the documentation of that for about the past 10 years. And then wonder why if recruitment is worse every year, why let people continue to shoot hens?
 
woodsman87 said:
CAMARO12 said:
TWRA used to conduct annual poult to hen ratios per county and publish the results but when was the last time anyone saw those in print??
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I don't know, but I would like to see the documentation of that for about the past 10 years. And then wonder why if recruitment is worse every year, why let people continue to shoot hens?
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not only hens but why continue to keep a 4 bird limit in the spring. A bird is almost impossible to kill (to call in ) when he is surrounded by 12-15 hens
 
CAMARO12 said:
Do a search for "TWRA Big Game Harvest Report 2011-2012" and go to the turkey section. There's a lot of good information there going back to the mid-80's as for as harvest numbers and brood surveys and the like. Hardeman County killed 952 birds during the 2004 spring season and the annual spring harvest has been down in the 600's from 2006-2011. It dropped to 546 in 2012 and 460 this year. I'd like to hear an explanation as to why this steady decrease has occurred.
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You cant tell me its because of less hunters
Now days everyone turkey hunts
 
I don't think it is because of less hunters. The reason why we started seeing the spike was because turkey hunting became cool. Turkeys have populated well, but also more people hunt therefore numbers are inflated. I miss the old days when there wasn't many other turkey hunters and everybody just deer hunted.

Dont get me wrong on this, if you put your time in and truly enjoy the sport of turkey hunting, by all means go and shoot some turkeys in the head. I do not like the hunters that are casual about turkey hunting, and people that go out and shoot gobblers just to kill and are not proud of it should be ashamed of themselves. Also the hen and poult murderers out there that kill because they can and although easy to kill, they like to brag about their accomplishments and introduce new turkey killers to the sport of hen and poult killing.

I love hunting with people that have a passion for wild turkeys like I do, and frown upon the casual turkey hunters.
 
I would like to see the season 4 weeks and not almost 6
and lower the bag limit to 2
oops I guess thats why I hunt Mo. LOL
I have just about lost interest in hunting TN
I remember back in 99-about 2004 IMO was the best
hunting Tn has has in the past 20 yrs
 
Lowering bag limits yes, shortening season no. Some people can only go on weekends and afternoons
after work
 
Spurhunter said:
There is no chance of turkeys becoming a nuisance.
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Now wait a minute here, just a dad-gummed minute.
Just depends on your personal perspective. I know several deer hunters who consider turkeys quite the nuisance. One, he even refers to them as "big feathered rats".

But, when was the last time you heard of someone totaling their car because they ran over a turkey? And I've never heard a farmer complain about the turkeys eating up all his soybeans. However, turkeys can be a bit of a nuisance, especially when I plant my fall food plots, and they like to scratch up and eat the seed.

Seeing that turkeys are but a fraction the size of deer and have a more diverse diet, it would seem more in the natural scheme of things that turkeys should out-number deer.

Spurhunter said:
Everything in the woods wants to eat [color:#FF0000]kill[/color] a turkey.
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Fixed it for you.
 
woodsman87 said:
The only changes I know of are these:
1) more liberal fall and spring bag limts.
2) Armidillos are seen almost everyday
3) wild hogs have been around the general areas since about 2007.
4) Feeding wildlife "deer" corn is very popular because of the game camera industry so people can see how big of a buck they are going to kill this year, only to never see him during the day.
5) the popularity of predator hunting. Yes I said it, shooting coyotes can effect in a negative way. Coyotes kill the animals that eat the eggs. Coyotes do eat nesting hens, but that isn't the main problem of them.
6) and rainfall.
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Your list is good, and would apply to much of TN.
I particularly believe the feeding of "deer" corn has had significant impact on reducing turkey populations in some areas. But contrary to your #5 on predator hunting, I believe fewer coyotes is better than more coyotes, from all perspectives. I'm seeing lots of coyotes specifically hunting for turkey during the day, although I do agree that part of what coyotes eat also eat turkey eggs.

Rather than the increased popularity of predator hunting being a negative, I think the real negative to turkeys is an increase in predators (part of why predator hunting has gain popularity).

In addition to too many coyotes, we also have a lot more bobcats, and a lot more hawks. A heck of a lot more hawks, which can be particularly deadly on young poults.

There is also one other giant predator entering the scene in some areas: Eagles. I've personally seen them attack turkeys, attack turkey decoys, and standing over a fresh turkey carcass (although in that one case, did not see the eagle kill the turkey). More and more, I'm seeing eagles hunting farther from water (where I usually see them). They're not hunting just turkeys, but they seem to be evolving into more focus on turkeys.
 
Well, I realize Catman is a young guy, compared to many of us older guys. I remember, as several on here when if you saw a turkey track you scuffed it out with your boot, and if you heard a bird gobble during a season you had really done something. Im friends and hunt with a fellow that started the oldest chapter of the NWTF in the state of Tn.,so I can go back aways. What has puzzled me is sightings over much of areas I hunt, as well as gobblers being seen or heard. I know at one time in many middle Tn. counties the flocks numbered in the hundreds on many sites in the fall. Within the last couple years, they have vanished in parts of Dickson county. It was nothing to ride to the store, and see strutters in many fields, and lots of hens in the spring. Now, you do good to see a hen. I know the fall hunts have knocked a dent in them. I know several guys who kill as many as they can in the fall, jakes included. As others have stated, why would a person want to kill this many? With a bow during bow season, that's ok, but a gun? To me its about calling him up, him doing his thing. I just wonder if theres more involved in the decrease in numbers other than the fall hunts, especially here in west Tn. I think TWRA has done a great job with the population, Chad H. is a very knowledgeable guy. Still, I have always felt our seasons have been way to liberal compared to other states who have more birds, shorter seasons, less limits than we do.
 
ImThere said:
I got it! Why dont they raise the price of license (especially for out of staters) and lower the all bag limits and we all will be happy!
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Cost of non-resident license is plenty high enough now.
I don't understand why nobody has mentioned the problem of birds not being checked in... I think that this is a major problem!! Along with poor hatches!! It's no telling how many gobblers are really killed during a 6 week season not to mention all the ones shot and lost.. The real answer would be to reduce the length of season and possibly bag limit. I am sure every county in TN can't handle a 4 bird limit in the spring.
 
I still do not agree that lowering bag limits or shortening the season is the answer. There will be lots of hunters that kill over the limit anyways. I bet wounded birds isn't much of a factor. Im not whining, I have to work, but everybody doesn't get to hunt everyday of their life, so I don't think shortening the season should be the answer just be wise me and alot of other guys would be cut down to only four Saturdays.
 
Roost 1 said:
I don't understand why nobody has mentioned the problem of birds not being checked in.
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The way I look at this aspect is the same folks (or proprtion of people) that didn't check them during the bumper-crop years aren't checking them now. In some ways, this factor could actually be one of the more predictable attributes of annual harvest. There's always been, and always will be, those who don't check. We use the data we have to help guide management decsions vs. worry about the data we don't have.

Enforcement...now that's an entirely different discussion altogether. :mad:
 
My final thoughts on this thread for the day is..

Harvest limits, fall and spring, season lengths, etc. don't mean squat if the hens are not there to nest, or if all the poults are killed in someway.

Final answer- its all about nesting, brood rearing, and habitat.
 
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